East Region Fan Poll

[dlippiel]

No doubt that DVC belongs #1 in the ERFP now...

On the road, vs the #3 team in the country and Wesley had to come from behind to beat them...

It was more a case of Wesley beating themselves, though.  Here's my problem with annointing DVC based solely on the score:

Wesley had six turnovers, five in the second half alone.  Wesley also committed 13 penalties for about 200 yards.  Yet, DVC still only put up 17.  Gordon will have a better perspective of this game having announced it.  However, Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.

dlip is really looking forward to a clear explanation of this game. Looking at the score (which is all dlip can do having not watched it) dlip is impressed with the result. Yet as Frank is eluding there may be more to it than that. Yet if you ask dlip if most east region teams played Wesley at this point in the year they would probably get monkey stomped regardless of how poorly Wesley played. dlip is looking forward to the result of the courage bowl tonight. Comparing the two will determine his ER #1 on Monday.

[gordonmann]

You really could interpret the Del Val-Wesley game almost anyway you want. 

If Wesley doesn't turn the ball over six times - a bunch of them leading to red zone opportunities that the Aggies couldn't convert - the game isn't a nail biter.  That said Del Val created some of those turnovers with great plays.  There were two interceptions by defensive ends on screen passes and one fumble created by Del Val sacking the quarterback.  Two of the interceptions were bad throws and one fumble was on a punt return by a freshman who probably should've called fair catch.

Del Val's defense played really well in the second half.  The Wolverines scored 21 points but one of those appeared to be sprung by an illegal block.  Del Val also appeared to cause a seventh turnover on a third down play late in the game protecting a three point lead.  Five people told me they thought the play was a fumble - a couple of them from Wesley - and Del Val reportedly reviewed the tape and didn't think it was close.  If that call goes the other way, maybe Del Val beats the No. 3 team on their own turf.  So that's the pro-Aggies view.

The anti-Aggies view says Del Val had five red zone chances and came away with one touchdown.  Their offense had six turnovers to work with - four of them giving Del Val the ball in Wesley territory - a bunch of penalties to help drives or stall Wesley and Del Val still couldn't win.  You couldn't say Del Val is better than Wesley from watching that game.

My three takeaways with which I feel pretty comfortable:

- Wesley is better than Del Val.  The Wolverines defense is outstanding with great talent, size and speed.  They will be tough to score on, particularly if a team relies on the run.  Obviously it won't help if they are constantly defending a short field.  And if Wesley doesn't avoid the mistakes they made today, they won't challenge Mount Union or Whitewater.  But it won't be because their defense is weak.

- Del Val's defense is really good, too.  Not at Wesley's level, but they play very hard and are getting great contributions off the defensive line.  If the Aggies get the illegal block call on the play, Del Val gives up 14 points to Wesley.  Pretty impressive.

- Del Val is in the conversation for the top team in the East.   I think SJF is underrated right now.  I was the first Top 25 voter to put Cortland State on his ballot.  And Montclair State's win was nice today.  If you've seen any of those teams and have been really impressed by them, I don't think voting them No. 1 is unreasonable.  If you haven't and you're reading box scores, then it's tough to pick against Del Val given what they've returned, whom they've played (relative to the other top East teams) and how they've played those opponents so far.

[theoriginalupstate]

Thanks for the recap Gordon...

+K

[dlippiel]

You really could interpret the Del Val-Wesley game almost anyway you want. 

If Wesley doesn't turn the ball over six times - a bunch of them leading to red zone opportunities that the Aggies couldn't convert - the game isn't a nail biter.  That said Del Val created some of those turnovers with great plays.  There were two interceptions by defensive ends on screen passes and one fumble created by Del Val sacking the quarterback.  Two of the interceptions were bad throws and one fumble was on a punt return by a freshman who probably should've called fair catch.

Del Val's defense played really well in the second half.  The Wolverines scored 21 points but one of those appeared to be sprung by an illegal block.  Del Val also appeared to cause a seventh turnover on a third down play late in the game protecting a three point lead.  Five people told me they thought the play was a fumble - a couple of them from Wesley - and Del Val reportedly reviewed the tape and didn't think it was close.  If that call goes the other way, maybe Del Val beats the No. 3 team on their own turf.  So that's the pro-Aggies view.

The anti-Aggies view says Del Val had five red zone chances and came away with one touchdown.  Their offense had six turnovers to work with - four of them giving Del Val the ball in Wesley territory - a bunch of penalties to help drives or stall Wesley and Del Val still couldn't win.  You couldn't say Del Val is better than Wesley from watching that game.

My three takeaways with which I feel pretty comfortable:

- Wesley is better than Del Val.  The Wolverines defense is outstanding with great talent, size and speed.  They will be tough to score on, particularly if a team relies on the run.  Obviously it won't help if they are constantly defending a short field.  And if Wesley doesn't avoid the mistakes they made today, they won't challenge Mount Union or Whitewater.  But it won't be because their defense is weak.

- Del Val's defense is really good, too.  Not at Wesley's level, but they play very hard and are getting great contributions off the defensive line.  If the Aggies get the illegal block call on the play, Del Val gives up 14 points to Wesley.  Pretty impressive.

- Del Val is in the conversation for the top team in the East.   I think SJF is underrated right now.  I was the first Top 25 voter to put Cortland State on his ballot.  And Montclair State's win was nice today.  If you've seen any of those teams and have been really impressed by them, I don't think voting them No. 1 is unreasonable.  If you haven't and you're reading box scores, then it's tough to pick against Del Val given what they've returned, whom they've played (relative to the other top East teams) and how they've played those opponents so far.

+k Gordan thanks 

[PBR...]

No doubt that DVC belongs #1 in the ERFP now...

On the road, vs the #3 team in the country and Wesley had to come from behind to beat them...

It was more a case of Wesley beating themselves, though.  Here's my problem with annointing DVC based solely on the score:

Wesley had six turnovers, five in the second half alone.  Wesley also committed 13 penalties for about 200 yards.  Yet, DVC still only put up 17.  Gordon will have a better perspective of this game having announced it.  However, Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.

Have no idea how you can make that statement w/o seeing the game. Really? It couldn't be that DVC has a darn good defense and made excellent plays to force the turnovers? Or Wesley took penalties to save their players from getting mashed? i.e. a def. end beats the tackle clean around the end and to keep your qb from getting decapitated you hold hold/tackle the defensive end? IMHO you can call it sloppiness but remember they were playing the #8 ranked team, and maybe DVC deserves just a crumb of credit for forcing some of those turnovers and penalties....just a thought

[rams1102]

No doubt that DVC belongs #1 in the ERFP now...

On the road, vs the #3 team in the country and Wesley had to come from behind to beat them...

It was more a case of Wesley beating themselves, though.  Here's my problem with annointing DVC based solely on the score:

Wesley had six turnovers, five in the second half alone.  Wesley also committed 13 penalties for about 200 yards.  Yet, DVC still only put up 17.  Gordon will have a better perspective of this game having announced it.  However, Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.

Have no idea how you can make that statement w/o seeing the game. Really? It couldn't be that DVC has a darn good defense and made excellent plays to force the turnovers? Or Wesley took penalties to save their players from getting mashed? i.e. a def. end beats the tackle clean around the end and to keep your qb from getting decapitated you hold hold/tackle the defensive end? IMHO you can call it sloppiness but remember they were playing the #8 ranked team, and maybe DVC deserves just a crumb of credit for forcing some of those turnovers and penalties....just a thought

If you want Wesleydad to respond, cut and paste to the South Region, Atlantic Central. We beat them at home (3) years ago and heard some of the same stuff. Wesley is a real good team, but they have to beat the MUU / UWW to solidify themselves. The East is usually very inconsistant with the exception of Rowan some time ago. You guys are the best of the East, coming from a Montclair fan, but remember what happened with Albright last year.

[Frank Rossi]

No doubt that DVC belongs #1 in the ERFP now...

On the road, vs the #3 team in the country and Wesley had to come from behind to beat them...

It was more a case of Wesley beating themselves, though.  Here's my problem with annointing DVC based solely on the score:

Wesley had six turnovers, five in the second half alone.  Wesley also committed 13 penalties for about 200 yards.  Yet, DVC still only put up 17.  Gordon will have a better perspective of this game having announced it.  However, Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.

Have no idea how you can make that statement w/o seeing the game. Really? It couldn't be that DVC has a darn good defense and made excellent plays to force the turnovers? Or Wesley took penalties to save their players from getting mashed? i.e. a def. end beats the tackle clean around the end and to keep your qb from getting decapitated you hold hold/tackle the defensive end? IMHO you can call it sloppiness but remember they were playing the #8 ranked team, and maybe DVC deserves just a crumb of credit for forcing some of those turnovers and penalties....just a thought

How do you know I didn't listen to the game since I was the guy updating "GameDay Live" in the blog Saturday?  Just a thought.  And I did defer to Gordon, who pretty much echoed some of my thoughts.  


[Edit: What bothers me with your post is that I didn't discredit DVC entirely.  My point is more that Wesley's sloppy play in the second half kept DVC in the game... But even if it was DVC's defense that made the game winnable, as you say, DVC still lost with a +5 turnover ratio (and a penalty ratio from hell, too).  I dropped BOTH teams in my Top 25, but DVC dropped just 4 spots -- a very small drop for a team with an early-season loss historically.  And that drop matched the general drop in the Poll.  I dropped Wesley, on the other hand, two spots (from #2 to #4) because that sloppy play is something that some people were hoping was gone from this team.  Obviously, it's not quite yet.] 

[PA_wesleyfan]

No doubt that DVC belongs #1 in the ERFP now...

On the road, vs the #3 team in the country and Wesley had to come from behind to beat them...

It was more a case of Wesley beating themselves, though.  Here's my problem with annointing DVC based solely on the score:

Wesley had six turnovers, five in the second half alone.  Wesley also committed 13 penalties for about 200 yards.  Yet, DVC still only put up 17.  Gordon will have a better perspective of this game having announced it.  However, Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.

Have no idea how you can make that statement w/o seeing the game. Really? It couldn't be that DVC has a darn good defense and made excellent plays to force the turnovers? Or Wesley took penalties to save their players from getting mashed? i.e. a def. end beats the tackle clean around the end and to keep your qb from getting decapitated you hold hold/tackle the defensive end? IMHO you can call it sloppiness but remember they were playing the #8 ranked team, and maybe DVC deserves just a crumb of credit for forcing some of those turnovers and penalties....just a thought

 PBR

Wesley's bad penalties were on punt returns and that stupid mental penalty of cursing in front of the ref!!!. Actually had a 98 yrd return called back. But the gunner had as much to do with that as the defender. ( the gunner can flat out fly) and burned the Wesley blocker more than a few times. Del Vals punter had a great game with long high punts all day. And the Del Vals D played a very physical hard game.

[PBR...]

No doubt that DVC belongs #1 in the ERFP now...

On the road, vs the #3 team in the country and Wesley had to come from behind to beat them...

It was more a case of Wesley beating themselves, though.  Here's my problem with annointing DVC based solely on the score:

Wesley had six turnovers, five in the second half alone.  Wesley also committed 13 penalties for about 200 yards.  Yet, DVC still only put up 17.  Gordon will have a better perspective of this game having announced it.  However, Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.

Have no idea how you can make that statement w/o seeing the game. Really? It couldn't be that DVC has a darn good defense and made excellent plays to force the turnovers? Or Wesley took penalties to save their players from getting mashed? i.e. a def. end beats the tackle clean around the end and to keep your qb from getting decapitated you hold hold/tackle the defensive end? IMHO you can call it sloppiness but remember they were playing the #8 ranked team, and maybe DVC deserves just a crumb of credit for forcing some of those turnovers and penalties....just a thought

How do you know I didn't listen to the game since I was the guy updating "GameDay Live" in the blog Saturday?  Just a thought.  And I did defer to Gordon, who pretty much echoed some of my thoughts.  


[Edit: What bothers me with your post is that I didn't discredit DVC entirely.  My point is more that Wesley's sloppy play in the second half kept DVC in the game... But even if it was DVC's defense that made the game winnable, as you say, DVC still lost with a +5 turnover ratio (and a penalty ratio from hell, too).  I dropped BOTH teams in my Top 25, but DVC dropped just 4 spots -- a very small drop for a team with an early-season loss historically.  And that drop matched the general drop in the Poll.  I dropped Wesley, on the other hand, two spots (from #2 to #4) because that sloppy play is something that some people were hoping was gone from this team.  Obviously, it's not quite yet.] 

Sure they appreciate that crumb of credit you give them....and they appreciate you not discrediting them entirely....

[PBR...]

No doubt that DVC belongs #1 in the ERFP now...

On the road, vs the #3 team in the country and Wesley had to come from behind to beat them...

It was more a case of Wesley beating themselves, though.  Here's my problem with annointing DVC based solely on the score:

Wesley had six turnovers, five in the second half alone.  Wesley also committed 13 penalties for about 200 yards.  Yet, DVC still only put up 17.  Gordon will have a better perspective of this game having announced it.  However, Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.

Have no idea how you can make that statement w/o seeing the game. Really? It couldn't be that DVC has a darn good defense and made excellent plays to force the turnovers? Or Wesley took penalties to save their players from getting mashed? i.e. a def. end beats the tackle clean around the end and to keep your qb from getting decapitated you hold hold/tackle the defensive end? IMHO you can call it sloppiness but remember they were playing the #8 ranked team, and maybe DVC deserves just a crumb of credit for forcing some of those turnovers and penalties....just a thought

If you want Wesleydad to respond, cut and paste to the South Region, Atlantic Central. We beat them at home (3) years ago and heard some of the same stuff. Wesley is a real good team, but they have to beat the MUU / UWW to solidify themselves. The East is usually very inconsistant with the exception of Rowan some time ago. You guys are the best of the East, coming from a Montclair fan, but remember what happened with Albright last year.

yup...sure that 45-16 score still stings albrights seniors  

[AUKaz00]

One of our pollsters seems to be MIA so if anyone else is interested in claiming that spot, drop me a PM.  A poster from an unrepresented conference is considering it, so I'd give him first dibs then I'd consider anyone else whose team isn't represented in the poll currently.

Week 3 Fan Poll  

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Delaware Valley( 7 )	2-1	87	1	Open Date
2   St. John Fisher( 2 )	3-0	81	2	at #6 Hobart
3   Montclair State	2-0	73	3	at Morrisville State
4   Cortland State	2-0	50	5	at Western Connecticut
5   Ithaca	3-0	49	7	at Lycoming
6   Hobart	2-0	47	6	vs. #2 St. John Fisher
7   Alfred	2-0	43	4	at #8 Springfield
8   Springfield	3-0	34	9	vs. #7 Alfred
9   Rowan	1-1	8	8	vs. William Paterson
10  Curry	2-1	6	NR	vs. MIT

Dropped Out:
#10 Union


Also Receiving votes:              
Utica 5
Kean 4
Union 4
Albright 2
Lycoming 1
Norwich 1
                    
            
Voting Distribution:            

Delaware Valley (1,1,1,3,1,1,1,NR,1,2)
St. John Fisher (2,3,2,1,2,3,2,NR,2,1)
Montclair State (3,2,4,2,4,2,3,NR,3,3)
Cortland (7,4,3,6,3,4,8,NR,6,8)
Ithaca (6,6,5,5,5,7,4,NR,5,7)
Hobart (5,5,7,8,6,5,6,NR,4,6)
Alfred (8,7,6,4,8,6,5,NR,8,4)
Springfield(4,8,8,7,7,8,7,NR,NR,5)
Rowan (NR,NR,NR,9,9,9,NR,NR,8,NR)
Curry (10,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,7,10)
Utica (NR,10,NR,NR,NR,NR,9,NR,NR,9)
Kean (NR,9,10,NR,10,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Union (NR,NR,9,10,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Albright (9,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Lycoming (NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,10,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Norwich (NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,10,NR)


Key Matchups:
#2 St. John Fisher at #6 Hobart
#7 Alfred at #8 Springfield

[labart96]

I thought Rowan played Montclair last weekend?  I think you meant to show them playing William P...

[Frank Rossi]

Sure they appreciate that crumb of credit you give them....and they appreciate you not discrediting them entirely....

Trust me, that's a lot more than a crumb -- other teams in the first couple weeks that lost dropped on average 8-10 spots (like an established St. John's team).  Was I supposed to move them up on a national basis after the loss?  The first three weeks for me showed a weaker offense than last year, and Wesley helped prove that.  The defense is a surprise to me -- but it takes both sides of the ball to make a team a national powerhouse.

#13 is a powerful ranking in a 200+ team division.  DelVal can easily jump back into the Top 10 with some strong MAC performances this season, but currently, I think SJF is a slightly stronger team that would be able to win in a shootout against Wesley.  So, SJF is one spot higher in my ballot right now than DelVal.

So, if you're going to stand there throwing stones that people like me didn't respect your team enough, at least defend the offense's performance compared to last year for people that don't get DVC on their radar every week.

[AUKaz00]

I thought Rowan played Montclair last weekend?  I think you meant to show them playing William P...

There are so many moving parts with this thing.  Everytime I think I've caught all the changes there is one that slips through...

[theoriginalupstate]

You're still doing a great job Kaz00, don't let those pumpkin heads talk down to you!!!