East Region Fan Poll

[theoriginalupstate]

82, if Ithaca doesn't get their run game on track they're going to drop a couple more.  I wouldn't be surprised if UC took out IC this year.  It's going to happen eventually and with the injuries and inconsistencies on the IC squad this may be the year.

I gotcha....I have posted this year that Utica looks strong, so they are on 'my' radar....I just cant imagine that a school in Utica, NY, virtually unheard of (sorry FA91) may apparently be out-recruiting Ithaca and all its tradition (i mean that seriously and as a compliment to Ithaca). 

If it is true as you predict....and we chalk it up to Faggiano's coaching and recruiting skills....then it is only logical that they will also catch Fisher in the near future.  Utica will be to Fisher what Fisher was to Ithaca, when out of know where Fisher 'Caught' them. 

It's just a matter of time before UC catches SJF.

Respectfully, how much of Fisher's success can be attributed to the Bills' moving their and improving the facilities? Obviously Vos is a great coach and has outcoached Welch the last four years, and that helps. But Fisher has better athletes than Ithaca, and it's probably not a coincidence that that started happening once those early recruits from 2000, 2001, 2002 started maturing and becoming juniors and seniors.

Heck. Cortland got a brand spanking new facility in 2002 and they started getting better right at that time.

Fisher deserves all their success, but they had a recruiting draw that Utica does not. I don't think Utica will pass Ithaca in the near future, but if they do, I think it will be similar to how Buffalo State did it in the mid 90's. I was (obviously) not a recruited athlete, so I don't know what attracts a D-III athlete--outside of the academics--but I would suspect facilities help a lot.

Me and Yanks had this conversation on the E8 board (i believe, it might have been on here) last week.  I totally agree with the premise that the facilities and Bills have propelled the program to where they are now.  It started to bring in good players, which lead to more wins, which lead to more good players, which lead to even more wins, which lead to even more good players...

The Bills and the SJF administration started the process and the coaches/recruiters took it from there...

I agree that Utica needs something to draw the kids in, however they're doing a very good job of it now w/o that "bright and shiny" object that is needed for consistent success...

If they do a major upgrade to their facilities like a new fieldhouse or an upgrade to their stadium they could have their own "bright and shiny" object...

[Yanks 99]

82, if Ithaca doesn't get their run game on track they're going to drop a couple more.  I wouldn't be surprised if UC took out IC this year.  It's going to happen eventually and with the injuries and inconsistencies on the IC squad this may be the year.

I gotcha....I have posted this year that Utica looks strong, so they are on 'my' radar....I just cant imagine that a school in Utica, NY, virtually unheard of (sorry FA91) may apparently be out-recruiting Ithaca and all its tradition (i mean that seriously and as a compliment to Ithaca). 

If it is true as you predict....and we chalk it up to Faggiano's coaching and recruiting skills....then it is only logical that they will also catch Fisher in the near future.  Utica will be to Fisher what Fisher was to Ithaca, when out of know where Fisher 'Caught' them. 

It's just a matter of time before UC catches SJF.

Respectfully, how much of Fisher's success can be attributed to the Bills' moving their and improving the facilities? Obviously Vos is a great coach and has outcoached Welch the last four years, and that helps. But Fisher has better athletes than Ithaca, and it's probably not a coincidence that that started happening once those early recruits from 2000, 2001, 2002 started maturing and becoming juniors and seniors.

Heck. Cortland got a brand spanking new facility in 2002 and they started getting better right at that time.

Fisher deserves all their success, but they had a recruiting draw that Utica does not. I don't think Utica will pass Ithaca in the near future, but if they do, I think it will be similar to how Buffalo State did it in the mid 90's. I was (obviously) not a recruited athlete, so I don't know what attracts a D-III athlete--outside of the academics--but I would suspect facilities help a lot.

Me and Yanks had this conversation on the E8 board (i believe, it might have been on here) last week.  I totally agree with the premise that the facilities and Bills have propelled the program to where they are now.  It started to bring in good players, which lead to more wins, which lead to more good players, which lead to even more wins, which lead to even more good players...

The Bills and the SJF administration started the process and the coaches/recruiters took it from there...

I agree that Utica needs something to draw the kids in, however they're doing a very good job of it now w/o that "bright and shiny" object that is needed for consistent success...

If they do a major upgrade to their facilities like a new fieldhouse or an upgrade to their stadium they could have their own "bright and shiny" object...

Agreed...I actually think that when you look at the most successful programs around, you will generally find a very, very supportive administration that backs their athletic programs in a big, big way.  This is usually done in more ways than one.  These administration's generally:

- Support great/improved facilities
- Aid in "fair" financial aid practices (why pay $10K per year at College A when you can pay $5K per year at College B that has better facilities and just as good education reputation)
- Promote taking chances on kids that may or may not be their typical "university" material
- Develop a culture that athletics (along with other areas within the college) are vitally important

Some administrations talk a good game...others actually walk the walk...and those campuses are usually easy to pick out.

[fisheralum91]

this is public knowlegde so im not speaking out of school...
but it may surprise some of you that UC's tuition is 4k more than Fisher.....
no kidding.......

[SJFF82]

82, if Ithaca doesn't get their run game on track they're going to drop a couple more.  I wouldn't be surprised if UC took out IC this year.  It's going to happen eventually and with the injuries and inconsistencies on the IC squad this may be the year.

I gotcha....I have posted this year that Utica looks strong, so they are on 'my' radar....I just cant imagine that a school in Utica, NY, virtually unheard of (sorry FA91) may apparently be out-recruiting Ithaca and all its tradition (i mean that seriously and as a compliment to Ithaca). 

If it is true as you predict....and we chalk it up to Faggiano's coaching and recruiting skills....then it is only logical that they will also catch Fisher in the near future.  Utica will be to Fisher what Fisher was to Ithaca, when out of know where Fisher 'Caught' them. 

It's just a matter of time before UC catches SJF.

Respectfully, how much of Fisher's success can be attributed to the Bills' moving their and improving the facilities? Obviously Vos is a great coach and has outcoached Welch the last four years, and that helps. But Fisher has better athletes than Ithaca, and it's probably not a coincidence that that started happening once those early recruits from 2000, 2001, 2002 started maturing and becoming juniors and seniors.

Heck. Cortland got a brand spanking new facility in 2002 and they started getting better right at that time.

Fisher deserves all their success, but they had a recruiting draw that Utica does not. I don't think Utica will pass Ithaca in the near future, but if they do, I think it will be similar to how Buffalo State did it in the mid 90's. I was (obviously) not a recruited athlete, so I don't know what attracts a D-III athlete--outside of the academics--but I would suspect facilities help a lot.

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

[Jonny Utah]

82, if Ithaca doesn't get their run game on track they're going to drop a couple more.  I wouldn't be surprised if UC took out IC this year.  It's going to happen eventually and with the injuries and inconsistencies on the IC squad this may be the year.

I gotcha....I have posted this year that Utica looks strong, so they are on 'my' radar....I just cant imagine that a school in Utica, NY, virtually unheard of (sorry FA91) may apparently be out-recruiting Ithaca and all its tradition (i mean that seriously and as a compliment to Ithaca). 

If it is true as you predict....and we chalk it up to Faggiano's coaching and recruiting skills....then it is only logical that they will also catch Fisher in the near future.  Utica will be to Fisher what Fisher was to Ithaca, when out of know where Fisher 'Caught' them. 

It's just a matter of time before UC catches SJF.

Respectfully, how much of Fisher's success can be attributed to the Bills' moving their and improving the facilities? Obviously Vos is a great coach and has outcoached Welch the last four years, and that helps. But Fisher has better athletes than Ithaca, and it's probably not a coincidence that that started happening once those early recruits from 2000, 2001, 2002 started maturing and becoming juniors and seniors.

Heck. Cortland got a brand spanking new facility in 2002 and they started getting better right at that time.

Fisher deserves all their success, but they had a recruiting draw that Utica does not. I don't think Utica will pass Ithaca in the near future, but if they do, I think it will be similar to how Buffalo State did it in the mid 90's. I was (obviously) not a recruited athlete, so I don't know what attracts a D-III athlete--outside of the academics--but I would suspect facilities help a lot.

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

They were pretty horrible for a while after that though.  And RPI was a powerhouse in 1995?  Even Buff State had peaked by then.

[theoriginalupstate]

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

Vos is a great coach, but you can't win a horse race with out a horse...

The coaches were given everything they needed to build a better program and they ran with it...

I came there in 97 on a visit and despite the great staff there I wanted nothing to do with the program because of their facilities.  A couple years later it was a completely different mentality and atmosphere surrounding the program...

Even the AD says the Bills and the facilities are a huge reason for the improvement...

I don't see why some can't agree with that...

[SJFF82]

82, if Ithaca doesn't get their run game on track they're going to drop a couple more.  I wouldn't be surprised if UC took out IC this year.  It's going to happen eventually and with the injuries and inconsistencies on the IC squad this may be the year.

I gotcha....I have posted this year that Utica looks strong, so they are on 'my' radar....I just cant imagine that a school in Utica, NY, virtually unheard of (sorry FA91) may apparently be out-recruiting Ithaca and all its tradition (i mean that seriously and as a compliment to Ithaca). 

If it is true as you predict....and we chalk it up to Faggiano's coaching and recruiting skills....then it is only logical that they will also catch Fisher in the near future.  Utica will be to Fisher what Fisher was to Ithaca, when out of know where Fisher 'Caught' them. 

It's just a matter of time before UC catches SJF.

Respectfully, how much of Fisher's success can be attributed to the Bills' moving their and improving the facilities? Obviously Vos is a great coach and has outcoached Welch the last four years, and that helps. But Fisher has better athletes than Ithaca, and it's probably not a coincidence that that started happening once those early recruits from 2000, 2001, 2002 started maturing and becoming juniors and seniors.

Heck. Cortland got a brand spanking new facility in 2002 and they started getting better right at that time.

Fisher deserves all their success, but they had a recruiting draw that Utica does not. I don't think Utica will pass Ithaca in the near future, but if they do, I think it will be similar to how Buffalo State did it in the mid 90's. I was (obviously) not a recruited athlete, so I don't know what attracts a D-III athlete--outside of the academics--but I would suspect facilities help a lot.

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

They were pretty horrible for a while after that though.  And RPI was a powerhouse in 1995?  Even Buff State had peaked by then.

yeh....i said that....that is what "doormat" means

as far as RPI and powerhouse....if I recall correctly they were 2 years removed from back to back 9-1 seasons and they finished 8-2 that season.  Maybe powerhouse is a stretch but not many teams in the East were better than them in those days.

[SJFF82]

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

Vos is a great coach, but you can't win a horse race with out a horse...

The coaches were given everything they needed to build a better program and they ran with it...

I came there in 97 on a visit and despite the great staff there I wanted nothing to do with the program because of their facilities.  A couple years later it was a completely different mentality and atmosphere surrounding the program...

Even the AD says the Bills and the facilities are a huge reason for the improvement...

I don't see why some can't agree with that...

re-read my post..."of course facilities matter"

[Jonny Utah]

82, if Ithaca doesn't get their run game on track they're going to drop a couple more.  I wouldn't be surprised if UC took out IC this year.  It's going to happen eventually and with the injuries and inconsistencies on the IC squad this may be the year.

I gotcha....I have posted this year that Utica looks strong, so they are on 'my' radar....I just cant imagine that a school in Utica, NY, virtually unheard of (sorry FA91) may apparently be out-recruiting Ithaca and all its tradition (i mean that seriously and as a compliment to Ithaca). 

If it is true as you predict....and we chalk it up to Faggiano's coaching and recruiting skills....then it is only logical that they will also catch Fisher in the near future.  Utica will be to Fisher what Fisher was to Ithaca, when out of know where Fisher 'Caught' them. 

It's just a matter of time before UC catches SJF.

Respectfully, how much of Fisher's success can be attributed to the Bills' moving their and improving the facilities? Obviously Vos is a great coach and has outcoached Welch the last four years, and that helps. But Fisher has better athletes than Ithaca, and it's probably not a coincidence that that started happening once those early recruits from 2000, 2001, 2002 started maturing and becoming juniors and seniors.

Heck. Cortland got a brand spanking new facility in 2002 and they started getting better right at that time.

Fisher deserves all their success, but they had a recruiting draw that Utica does not. I don't think Utica will pass Ithaca in the near future, but if they do, I think it will be similar to how Buffalo State did it in the mid 90's. I was (obviously) not a recruited athlete, so I don't know what attracts a D-III athlete--outside of the academics--but I would suspect facilities help a lot.

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

They were pretty horrible for a while after that though.  And RPI was a powerhouse in 1995?  Even Buff State had peaked by then.

yeh....i said that....that is what "doormat" means

as far as RPI and powerhouse....if I recall correctly they were 2 years removed from back to back 9-1 seasons and they finished 8-2 that season.  Maybe powerhouse is a stretch but not many teams in the East were better than them in those days.

I was just referencing SJF poor record in terms that Vosbergh may not be such a great coach.  I should say I know nothing about the man, and he could be one of the best coaches in the country.  It's just tough to say someone is great when you have so many horrible seasons in a row.

Buff State had some solid teams during the 1990s, although I do think they started to go downhill after 1994, and RPI played a lot of cupcakes back then and really hurt themselves.  I really believe if they had beaten 1 or 2 better quality teams back then they may have made the playoffs.

[Bombers798891]

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

Vos is a great coach, but you can't win a horse race with out a horse...

The coaches were given everything they needed to build a better program and they ran with it...

I came there in 97 on a visit and despite the great staff there I wanted nothing to do with the program because of their facilities.  A couple years later it was a completely different mentality and atmosphere surrounding the program...

Even the AD says the Bills and the facilities are a huge reason for the improvement...

I don't see why some can't agree with that...

re-read my post..."of course facilities matter"

So if facilities matter, why can't we talk about it? Does it mean that Fisher doesn't deserve their success? Of course not. Does it mean the facilities are the only or even primary reason Fisher's improved? No. Ithaca's got cruddy football facilities relative to a lot of schools like Fisher and Cortland do now, and I think it does hurt recruiting. But yes, Ithaca doesn't get the Bills' money. And they don't get the state's money (I have no idea if the Jets are going to pay to improve facilities). So they're on their own for raising the cash. Them's the breaks.

Remember, this started when people compared Utica to Fisher in saying they would catch IC. I simply said that Fisher had a draw for their program that Utica currently doesn't, hence the comparison did not seem to fit. Of course that's not the only way Utica can pass IC. Buff State did it in the mid 90's without any sort of similar influx (that I can recall).

I'm not discrediting Fisher for their success.

As far as your glaciers point, if the college had a national title in the ice age, you could argue that. Since it wasn't, there's probably another cause. Fisher may have had some good seasons, but their rise as an eastern power came a few years after the facilities upgrade, right about the time those recruiting classes would be maturing.

[clandfan]

The Jets camp at Cortland is certainly a big help.  I believe Cortland's President contacted SJF President when looking at the advantages and disadvantages of hosting an NFL camp.

I do know that improvements to certain facilities were required by the Jets, the biggest being the installation of two grass fields up to NFL specs.  They were maintained by Jets personnel and they remained fenced in with no access by the college teams to my knowledge.  So, while they are nice, we are not benefitting from them from a football standpoint.  In fact, the stadium field turf is in rough shape and needs to be replaced.  I don't think there is any help coming from the Jets or the state for that capital improvement.  I believe the Jets leave equipment and donate cleats and things that the football program.  There were upgrades to dormitories and such but not a direct benefit to the football program.  Certainly coaches have access to the camp and I am sure pick up ideas that ultimately benefit the program.  And then, of course, it has widened our athlete pool and has been a recruiting benefit.  Some of our players have had Jets internships as a result of the camp...I think there are many plusses.  Not sure it translates yet into success on the field but given a long term relationship with the Jets, I have no doubt that iit will.

[Knightstalker]

Look at FDU Florham Park in a couple more years and see if Jets money helped them any.

[Bombers798891]

The Jets camp at Cortland is certainly a big help.  I believe Cortland's President contacted SJF President when looking at the advantages and disadvantages of hosting an NFL camp.

I do know that improvements to certain facilities were required by the Jets, the biggest being the installation of two grass fields up to NFL specs.  They were maintained by Jets personnel and they remained fenced in with no access by the college teams to my knowledge.  So, while they are nice, we are not benefitting from them from a football standpoint.  In fact, the stadium field turf is in rough shape and needs to be replaced.  I don't think there is any help coming from the Jets or the state for that capital improvement.  I believe the Jets leave equipment and donate cleats and things that the football program.  There were upgrades to dormitories and such but not a direct benefit to the football program.  Certainly coaches have access to the camp and I am sure pick up ideas that ultimately benefit the program.  And then, of course, it has widened our athlete pool and has been a recruiting benefit.  Some of our players have had Jets internships as a result of the camp...I think there are many plusses.  Not sure it translates yet into success on the field but given a long term relationship with the Jets, I have no doubt that iit will.

Didn't the state build Cortland a nice, new, state of the art stadium in 2002? Utica's not going to be getting that either

[SJFF82]

82, if Ithaca doesn't get their run game on track they're going to drop a couple more.  I wouldn't be surprised if UC took out IC this year.  It's going to happen eventually and with the injuries and inconsistencies on the IC squad this may be the year.

I gotcha....I have posted this year that Utica looks strong, so they are on 'my' radar....I just cant imagine that a school in Utica, NY, virtually unheard of (sorry FA91) may apparently be out-recruiting Ithaca and all its tradition (i mean that seriously and as a compliment to Ithaca). 

If it is true as you predict....and we chalk it up to Faggiano's coaching and recruiting skills....then it is only logical that they will also catch Fisher in the near future.  Utica will be to Fisher what Fisher was to Ithaca, when out of know where Fisher 'Caught' them. 

It's just a matter of time before UC catches SJF.

Respectfully, how much of Fisher's success can be attributed to the Bills' moving their and improving the facilities? Obviously Vos is a great coach and has outcoached Welch the last four years, and that helps. But Fisher has better athletes than Ithaca, and it's probably not a coincidence that that started happening once those early recruits from 2000, 2001, 2002 started maturing and becoming juniors and seniors.

Heck. Cortland got a brand spanking new facility in 2002 and they started getting better right at that time.

Fisher deserves all their success, but they had a recruiting draw that Utica does not. I don't think Utica will pass Ithaca in the near future, but if they do, I think it will be similar to how Buffalo State did it in the mid 90's. I was (obviously) not a recruited athlete, so I don't know what attracts a D-III athlete--outside of the academics--but I would suspect facilities help a lot.

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

They were pretty horrible for a while after that though.  And RPI was a powerhouse in 1995?  Even Buff State had peaked by then.

yeh....i said that....that is what "doormat" means

as far as RPI and powerhouse....if I recall correctly they were 2 years removed from back to back 9-1 seasons and they finished 8-2 that season.  Maybe powerhouse is a stretch but not many teams in the East were better than them in those days.

I was just referencing SJF poor record in terms that Vosbergh may not be such a great coach.  I should say I know nothing about the man, and he could be one of the best coaches in the country.  It's just tough to say someone is great when you have so many horrible seasons in a row.

Buff State had some solid teams during the 1990s, although I do think they started to go downhill after 1994, and RPI played a lot of cupcakes back then and really hurt themselves.  I really believe if they had beaten 1 or 2 better quality teams back then they may have made the playoffs.

never said he was great coach (just that he knew what he was doing...big difference)...although I believe he is in a different context of what we have been posting about.  I guess you have to define what makes a coach great before we have that discussion. 

[SJFF82]

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

Vos is a great coach, but you can't win a horse race with out a horse...

The coaches were given everything they needed to build a better program and they ran with it...

I came there in 97 on a visit and despite the great staff there I wanted nothing to do with the program because of their facilities.  A couple years later it was a completely different mentality and atmosphere surrounding the program...

Even the AD says the Bills and the facilities are a huge reason for the improvement...

I don't see why some can't agree with that...

re-read my post..."of course facilities matter"

As far as your glaciers point, if the college had a national title in the ice age, you could argue that. 

sure seems it was that long ago...