East Region Fan Poll

[SJFF82]

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

How many of those 1995 wins had to be forfeited because of an ineligible player?

What, to me, distinguishes Vosburgh and the SJF program as being a good/great program, has little to do with the mid-'90s.  What I look at is the 2000-2010 goings on.  This is a team that has never been really afraid to face tougher opponents in its non-conference schedule, even when Pool A/C issues may have changed many schools' approaches to such scheduling.  I really think the belief is (as Coach Vos said on "In the HuddLLe" a couple weekends back) you have to play the tough teams to become better.

The facilities have helped the program, sure.  However, it is still necessary to recruit the top-level players, get those players to play up to their potential and create an impetus for the local and alumni crowd to support the team.  I've seen no other program in the East nearly perfect those three things as well as SJF has in the past decade -- and this is coming from what you guys tend to refer as "a Liberty League guy."

Sure, every team has the capability to shock the conference in any given year.  On the other end, any good team has the capability to be upset in a couple games and, thus, not finish with a 9-1/8-1 record every year.  Yet, it's consistency that matters -- and in the 2000s, SJF consistently got better and has maintained that better level of play since the semifinals appearance.  I don't see how anyone can try to tear apart the job Vosburgh has done turning his team into a national-caliber contender on an annual basis.

When we interviewed Union tailback Chris Coney last weekend, he brought up how Coach John Audino convinced him to pick Union based on Audino's dedication to "the win."  That still trumps facilities in a lot of players' minds as they get recruited.  The facilities are indeed prime at SJF, but I think it's a chicken-and-egg question about whether the dedication to bring the program to the consistency led to the facilities or vice-versa.  I think the dedication on the part of Vos, his staff and, in turn, his school's administration has led to the program's success before the facilities.

I've watched Fisher for a while, and I've never NOT been impressed with the entire program.

as a Fisher homer...82 of course agrees with this post...but seriously...I had the same thought about the 'chicken-egg' theory, just that I didnt want to overkill the subject....

...nice to hear that perception from an outsider with no SJF bias Frank.

Recruiting with class still does mean something....it may be premature, but Faggiano at Utica is proof of this.  He was the recruiter that brought much of Fisher's talent to the 04, 05 and 06 squads.  Now he's at Utica...that's right...in Utica, NY, the armpit of NY, with a 10 year old program and seating for 1200, and he's already winning.

Coincidence?  What NFL team plays at Utica?

and of course I am not comparing a 4-0 start (Utica's) to SJF's runs in the play-offs, just comparing pre Faggiano Utica to present Utica.

I think, much like our debate to the status of the East Region, there are a multitude of reasons. Certainly, I don't think Fisher's success has been just a product of the facilities, and I don't think anyone who's brought up facilities has implied that. You don't obliterate your main conference rival five years in a row because you have nicer bleachers.

But it seems silly we can't admit that it plays a role. Just like coaching, tuition, financial aid, location, tradition, hotness of the student bodies, panoramic views, etc. all play roles. Takes different strokes to move the world

...OK....but who's not admitting it?

Fair point. A better way to say it may just be, it seems odd how defensive people get when the topic is mentioned

fair point as well....and lets be honest, I am the one who gets defensive, not "others" (other Fisher posters).  The reason I do, is because I played when Vosburgh got started, and I played we we had 'nothing' but won despite that, and I played when Vosburgh spoke daily of building a program, including a stadium and other facilities.  As Frank mentioned (chicken-egg theory), Vosburgh's vision and committment has as much to do with the program's prominence today as does the stadium/facilities....because he was the impetus behind the stadium et al. 

And finally, I am still pissed he didnt get the stadium built by our senior year as he had promised us during recruiting....

[AUKaz00]

Week 5 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Delaware Valley( 7 )	3-1	87	1	at FDU-Florham
2   St. John Fisher( 2 )	5-0	81	2	vs. #9 Ithaca
3   Montclair State	4-0	72	3	vs. New Jersey
4   Cortland State	4-0	61	T4	vs. Brockport State
5   Alfred	4-0	59	T4	at Hartwick
6   Springfield	4-1	31	6	Open Date
7   Rowan	3-1	30	9	vs. Kean
8   Lycoming	3-1	23	NR	at Albright
9   Ithaca	4-1	20	8	at #2 St. John Fisher
10  Utica	4-1	18	7	vs. St. Lawrence

Dropped Out:
#10 Hobart


Also Receiving votes:               
Union 7
SUNY-Maritime 5
William Paterson 1
                     
            
Voting Distribution:            

Delaware Valley (1,1,1,3,1,NR,1,1,1,2)
St. John Fisher (2,3,2,1,2,NR,2,2,3,1)
Montclair State (3,2,4,2,3,NR,3,5,2,3)
Cortland (4,4,3,5,4,NR,5,4,5,4)
Alfred (5,5,5,4,5,NR,4,3,4,5)
Springfield (7,6,6,10,6,NR,8,6,NR,8)
Rowan (8,8,8,6,7,NR,10,7,9,6)
Lycoming (9,9,9,7,8,NR,9,8,10,7)
Ithaca (6,NR,7,8,NR,NR,7,9,NR,9)
Utica (10,7,10,NR,NR,NR,6,10,6,10)
Union (NR,NR,NR,9,9,NR,NR,NR,8,NR)
SUNY-Maritime (NR,NR,NR,NR,10,NR,NR,NR,7,NR)
William Paterson (NR,10,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR)


Key Matchups:
#9 Ithaca at #2 St. John Fisher

[Yanks 99]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

[lewdogg11]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

I'm surprised i'm the only one with a Willy P vote.  Might need to start getting them on the radar.

[Yanks 99]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

I'm surprised i'm the only one with a Willy P vote.  Might need to start getting them on the radar.

I actually took a look at them this week.  I didn't have anyone from my Top 10 lose last week...but if they had, I would have had them in there...even before Utica, who I did not have ranked.

[pg04]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

I dropped them from 6 to 10, below those teams.  But All of them could almost be interchangeable at this point as it's very hard to compare them.  A few more E8 games should help stratify this out. 

[Yanks 99]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

I dropped them from 6 to 10, below those teams.  But All of them could almost be interchangeable at this point as it's very hard to compare them.  A few more E8 games should help stratify this out. 

You are dead on.  At this point, all of this is for fun.  Chip Kelly, the head coach at Oregon, had a great point on rankings during an interview before the Stanford game this weekend when he asked "name the #4 team in the country during the last week of September last year"?  No one could answer...because no one cares.

[Bombers798891]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

I dropped them from 6 to 10, below those teams.  But All of them could almost be interchangeable at this point as it's very hard to compare them.  A few more E8 games should help stratify this out. 

You are dead on.  At this point, all of this is for fun.  Chip Kelly, the head coach at Oregon, had a great point on rankings during an interview before the Stanford game this weekend when he asked "name the #4 team in the country during the last week of September last year"?  No one could answer...because no one cares.

1. At the D-I level, polls are used for a little more than "fun"

2. The very presence of these polls would seem to indicate that people do in fact care

[Yanks 99]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

I dropped them from 6 to 10, below those teams.  But All of them could almost be interchangeable at this point as it's very hard to compare them.  A few more E8 games should help stratify this out. 

You are dead on.  At this point, all of this is for fun.  Chip Kelly, the head coach at Oregon, had a great point on rankings during an interview before the Stanford game this weekend when he asked "name the #4 team in the country during the last week of September last year"?  No one could answer...because no one cares.

1. At the D-I level, polls are used for a little more than "fun"

2. The very presence of these polls would seem to indicate that people do in fact care

It's not that they don't care...it's that at this point in the season, it doesn't truly mean anything.  I said it before...raise your hand in you had Susquehana in your Top 10 at the beginning of the year last season?  These polls will mean more towards the end of the year simply because you get to judge the body of work of the season...

[SJFF82]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

I dropped them from 6 to 10, below those teams.  But All of them could almost be interchangeable at this point as it's very hard to compare them.  A few more E8 games should help stratify this out. 

You are dead on.  At this point, all of this is for fun.  Chip Kelly, the head coach at Oregon, had a great point on rankings during an interview before the Stanford game this weekend when he asked "name the #4 team in the country during the last week of September last year"?  No one could answer...because no one cares.

1. At the D-I level, polls are used for a little more than "fun"

2. The very presence of these polls would seem to indicate that people do in fact care

It's not that they don't care...it's that at this point in the season, it doesn't truly mean anything.  I said it before...raise your hand in you had Susquehana in your Top 10 at the beginning of the year last season?  These polls will mean more towards the end of the year simply because you get to judge the body of work of the season...

agreed, but the flip side of that is that at the end of the season when the games have all been played and the results all setlled on the field, what is the utility and/or expertise of the poll at that point?

[lewdogg11]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

I dropped them from 6 to 10, below those teams.  But All of them could almost be interchangeable at this point as it's very hard to compare them.  A few more E8 games should help stratify this out.  

You are dead on.  At this point, all of this is for fun.  Chip Kelly, the head coach at Oregon, had a great point on rankings during an interview before the Stanford game this weekend when he asked "name the #4 team in the country during the last week of September last year"?  No one could answer...because no one cares.

1. At the D-I level, polls are used for a little more than "fun"

2. The very presence of these polls would seem to indicate that people do in fact care

It's not that they don't care...it's that at this point in the season, it doesn't truly mean anything.  I said it before...raise your hand in you had Susquehana in your Top 10 at the beginning of the year last season?  These polls will mean more towards the end of the year simply because you get to judge the body of work of the season...

agreed, but the flip side of that is that at the end of the season when the games have all been played and the results all setlled on the field, what is the utility and/or expertise of the poll at that point?

It's definitely a good gauge to see if a team over-performed or under-performed it's expectations over the course of the year, and also to see how people's perceptions change each week....and also a gauge of how well a team was coached, how injuries, matchups, weather, etc can all affect a team and a program.

Do you enjoy reading the last page of books first or enjoy the buildup?...or in the case of a Cortland grad...Do you enjoy coloring the picture on the last page first?

[Jonny Utah]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

I'm surprised i'm the only one with a Willy P vote.  Might need to start getting them on the radar.

I thought about Willy P.  But I'm still not so sure about the NJAC.  The only game that I can judge them by is the Rowan over Lycoming win (24-17). 

I'm suprised it took a week to rank Lycoming over Ithaca though.  I had Lycoming last week.

[Knightstalker]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

I'm surprised i'm the only one with a Willy P vote.  Might need to start getting them on the radar.

I thought about Willy P.  But I'm still not so sure about the NJAC.  The only game that I can judge them by is the Rowan over Lycoming win (24-17). 

I'm suprised it took a week to rank Lycoming over Ithaca though.  I had Lycoming last week.

I've had Lyco for a couple of weeks now.  I always keep an eye on them, they are usually strong and sneak up as the season goes on.

[lewdogg11]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

I'm surprised i'm the only one with a Willy P vote.  Might need to start getting them on the radar.

I thought about Willy P.  But I'm still not so sure about the NJAC.  The only game that I can judge them by is the Rowan over Lycoming win (24-17). 

I'm suprised it took a week to rank Lycoming over Ithaca though.  I had Lycoming last week.

I've had Lyco for a couple of weeks now.  I always keep an eye on them, they are usually strong and sneak up as the season goes on.

Yeah I had Lyco at 10 last week and 9 this week.  I have Ithaca at 11 right now.  It looks like most people with Ithaca have them ahead of Lyco which I don't get. 

[Jonny Utah]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

I'm surprised i'm the only one with a Willy P vote.  Might need to start getting them on the radar.

I thought about Willy P.  But I'm still not so sure about the NJAC.  The only game that I can judge them by is the Rowan over Lycoming win (24-17). 

I'm suprised it took a week to rank Lycoming over Ithaca though.  I had Lycoming last week.

I've had Lyco for a couple of weeks now.  I always keep an eye on them, they are usually strong and sneak up as the season goes on.

Yeah I had Lyco at 10 last week and 9 this week.  I have Ithaca at 11 right now.  It looks like most people with Ithaca have them ahead of Lyco which I don't get. 

There is also someone with Union at 8 and Ithaca unranked and another person with Union 9th with Ithaca unranked.