East Region Fan Poll

[AUKaz00]

Wow...surprised a few voters have Utica ahead of Springfield, Rowan, and Ithaca.  Other then that, everything seems about right.

I'm surprised i'm the only one with a Willy P vote.  Might need to start getting them on the radar.

I thought about Willy P.  But I'm still not so sure about the NJAC.  The only game that I can judge them by is the Rowan over Lycoming win (24-17). 

I'm suprised it took a week to rank Lycoming over Ithaca though.  I had Lycoming last week.

I've had Lyco for a couple of weeks now.  I always keep an eye on them, they are usually strong and sneak up as the season goes on.

Yeah I had Lyco at 10 last week and 9 this week.  I have Ithaca at 11 right now.  It looks like most people with Ithaca have them ahead of Lyco which I don't get. 

I'll defend an Ithaca over Lycoming vote (which I have).  Ithaca lost on a last second field goal at Lycoming with a few key injuries.  I try to set my rankings based on which team I think would win a game on a neutral field not just on results or records.  Yes that's extremely subjective but with 10 pollsters I think it works it self out rather well.

[Bombers798891]

I'll defend an Ithaca over Lycoming vote (which I have).  Ithaca lost on a last second field goal at Lycoming with a few key injuries.  I try to set my rankings based on which team I think would win a game on a neutral field not just on results or records.  Yes that's extremely subjective but with 10 pollsters I think it works it self out rather well.

In principle, I agree with this (Though if I had a vote, Ithaca would be behind Lycoming) I mean, the FG changes who won the game, but it didn't really change what happened between the two squads. If Lycoming had botched the snap, does that make Ithaca a better football team than them? Or does it just change who one the H2H?

I always have trouble boiling down a larger "Which team is better?" concept into "Well, it all depends if this kicker hits a short FG on this play."

[theoriginalupstate]

After the top 5 (DVC, SJF, MSU, AU, Cort), the other teams are pretty interchangeable...

[Doid23]

I'll defend an Ithaca over Lycoming vote (which I have).  Ithaca lost on a last second field goal at Lycoming with a few key injuries.  I try to set my rankings based on which team I think would win a game on a neutral field not just on results or records.  Yes that's extremely subjective but with 10 pollsters I think it works it self out rather well.

In principle, I agree with this (Though if I had a vote, Ithaca would be behind Lycoming) I mean, the FG changes who won the game, but it didn't really change what happened between the two squads. If Lycoming had botched the snap, does that make Ithaca a better football team than them? Or does it just change who one the H2H?

I always have trouble boiling down a larger "Which team is better?" concept into "Well, it all depends if this kicker hits a short FG on this play."

I have no problem with someone ranking Ithaca slightly ahead of Lycoming, since the body of work is important as well, and another posters neutral field test is valid. But you can't just discount what happened in the game,  the field goal was part of the game, and the team (Lycoming) got itself in a position to kick the field goal. They had a player on their team execute the field goal. Special teams, and field goal kickers, are part of the team, and therefore can't be discounted.

[theoriginalupstate]

and field goal kickers, are part of the team,

That's debatable...

[Bombers798891]

I'll defend an Ithaca over Lycoming vote (which I have).  Ithaca lost on a last second field goal at Lycoming with a few key injuries.  I try to set my rankings based on which team I think would win a game on a neutral field not just on results or records.  Yes that's extremely subjective but with 10 pollsters I think it works it self out rather well.

In principle, I agree with this (Though if I had a vote, Ithaca would be behind Lycoming) I mean, the FG changes who won the game, but it didn't really change what happened between the two squads. If Lycoming had botched the snap, does that make Ithaca a better football team than them? Or does it just change who one the H2H?

I always have trouble boiling down a larger "Which team is better?" concept into "Well, it all depends if this kicker hits a short FG on this play."

I have no problem with someone ranking Ithaca slightly ahead of Lycoming, since the body of work is important as well, and another posters neutral field test is valid. But you can't just discount what happened in the game,  the field goal was part of the game, and the team (Lycoming) got itself in a position to kick the field goal. They had a player on their team execute the field goal. Special teams, and field goal kickers, are part of the team, and therefore can't be discounted.

My point wasn't that you discount the game. My point was in fact, that you take the whole game. If you want to make an argument that Lycoming is better than Ithaca (or vice versea) you shouldn't need that one kick to be made or missed to be the proof. There was ample proof to suggest Lycoming was better

The question is: If Lycoming misses the kick, does that one play drastically change how we view those two teams' seasons thus far? I just don't believe so

[maxpower]

I'll defend an Ithaca over Lycoming vote (which I have).  Ithaca lost on a last second field goal at Lycoming with a few key injuries.  I try to set my rankings based on which team I think would win a game on a neutral field not just on results or records.  Yes that's extremely subjective but with 10 pollsters I think it works it self out rather well.

In principle, I agree with this (Though if I had a vote, Ithaca would be behind Lycoming) I mean, the FG changes who won the game, but it didn't really change what happened between the two squads. If Lycoming had botched the snap, does that make Ithaca a better football team than them? Or does it just change who one the H2H?

I always have trouble boiling down a larger "Which team is better?" concept into "Well, it all depends if this kicker hits a short FG on this play."

I have no problem with someone ranking Ithaca slightly ahead of Lycoming, since the body of work is important as well, and another posters neutral field test is valid. But you can't just discount what happened in the game,  the field goal was part of the game, and the team (Lycoming) got itself in a position to kick the field goal. They had a player on their team execute the field goal. Special teams, and field goal kickers, are part of the team, and therefore can't be discounted.

My point wasn't that you discount the game. My point was in fact, that you take the whole game. If you want to make an argument that Lycoming is better than Ithaca (or vice versea) you shouldn't need that one kick to be made or missed to be the proof. There was ample proof to suggest Lycoming was better

The question is: If Lycoming misses the kick, does that one play drastically change how we view those two teams' seasons thus far? I just don't believe so

Agreed. If Ithaca wins by one, in this weeks ranking we probably have them ranked slightly ahead of Lycoming.... oh look at that...

[Doid23]

and field goal kickers, are part of the team,

That's debatable...

My bad. Good catch.

[AUKaz00]

UPDATED Week 5 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Delaware Valley( 7 )	3-1	96	1	at FDU-Florham
2   St. John Fisher( 3 )	5-0	91	2	vs. #9 Ithaca
3   Montclair State	4-0	80	3	vs. New Jersey
4   Cortland State	4-0	68	T4	vs. Brockport State
5   Alfred	4-0	65	T4	at Hartwick
6   Springfield	4-1	35	6	Open Date
7   Rowan	3-1	30	9	vs. Kean
8   Lycoming	3-1	26	NR	at Albright
9   Ithaca	4-1	25	8	at #2 St. John Fisher
10  Utica	4-1	20	7	vs. St. Lawrence

Dropped Out:
#10 Hobart


Also Receiving votes:               
Union 7
SUNY-Maritime 5
William Paterson 2
                     
            
Voting Distribution:            

Delaware Valley (1,1,1,3,1,2,1,1,1,2)
St. John Fisher (2,3,2,1,2,1,2,2,3,1)
Montclair State (3,2,4,2,3,3,3,5,2,3)
Cortland (4,4,3,5,4,4,5,4,5,4)
Alfred (5,5,5,4,5,5,4,3,4,5)
Springfield (7,6,6,10,6,7,8,6,NR,8)
Rowan (8,8,8,6,7,NR,10,7,9,6)
Lycoming (9,9,9,7,8,8,9,8,10,7)
Ithaca (6,NR,7,8,NR,6,7,9,NR,9)
Utica (10,7,10,NR,NR,9,6,10,6,10)
Union (NR,NR,NR,9,9,NR,NR,NR,8,NR)
SUNY-Maritime (NR,NR,NR,NR,10,NR,NR,NR,7,NR)
William Paterson (NR,10,NR,NR,NR,10,NR,NR,NR,NR)


Key Matchups:
#9 Ithaca at #2 St. John Fisher

[AUPepBand]

Pep had to publish the first version in the SUN as deadline loomed.
Nevertheless, good job with the fan poll, 'zoo.

[bomber3]

If I had a poll I would put Ithaca ahead of Lycoming.  As someone else stated Ithaca was playing down 3 key players on offense (two all conference players) and their leading tackler.  They say home field advantage is worth around 3 points so that + the Ithaca's injuries makes them very evenly matched teams.  Since I'm more familiar with IC and thought they played poorly that game I would give them the nod.  But Lycoming is a good team.

[Yanks 99]

Guess head to head match ups don't mean as much as they used to.  Everyone talks about the FG that Lycoming kicked which "won" the game like it was an accident.  Are we forgetting that Lycoming stopped Ithaca on 3 consecutive plays when IC had a chance to put the game away?  It's not like IC took a knee.  Are we forgetting that Lycoming marched right down the field for the winning kick?  IC didn't fumble or give the ball away while in the Victory formation.  Has anyone dug out any information showing maybe Lycoming had a few players out...or banged up?

While I do believe IC would beat Lycoming at least 6 out of 10 times they play, probably 7 out of 10 actually, they won the one game that matters.  Period.  When both teams have the same record, I cannot think of a single circumstance where I would rank the team that lost to the other head to head in front of the team that won.

[PBR...]

Guess head to head match ups don't mean as much as they used to.  Everyone talks about the FG that Lycoming kicked which "won" the game like it was an accident.  Are we forgetting that Lycoming stopped Ithaca on 3 consecutive plays when IC had a chance to put the game away?  It's not like IC took a knee.  Are we forgetting that Lycoming marched right down the field for the winning kick?  IC didn't fumble or give the ball away while in the Victory formation.  Has anyone dug out any information showing maybe Lycoming had a few players out...or banged up?

While I do believe IC would beat Lycoming at least 6 out of 10 times they play, probably 7 out of 10 actually, they won the one game that matters.  Period.  When both teams have the same record, I cannot think of a single circumstance where I would rank the team that lost to the other head to head in front of the team that won.

well stated yanks...kinda how pbr feels...the chances most of the time even themselves out during the game. The bottom line was lyco got it done when they needed to and IC didn't. Period, end of story. Lyco was the better team that day. Head to Head matchups are key and pbr would have lyco ranked ahead of IC because of that.

[rams1102]

After the top 5 (DVC, SJF, MSU, AU, Cort), the other teams are pretty interchangeable...

Totally agree with upstate. For the record my picks were Springfield, Ithaca, Rowan, Lycoming and Utica. I think Rowan will get beat at home by Kean and drop from the Top 10 next week, along with Fisher beating Ithaca. Then let's see how the votes come out and our justifications.

[Bombers798891]

Guess head to head match ups don't mean as much as they used to.  Everyone talks about the FG that Lycoming kicked which "won" the game like it was an accident.  Are we forgetting that Lycoming stopped Ithaca on 3 consecutive plays when IC had a chance to put the game away?  It's not like IC took a knee.  Are we forgetting that Lycoming marched right down the field for the winning kick?  IC didn't fumble or give the ball away while in the Victory formation.  Has anyone dug out any information showing maybe Lycoming had a few players out...or banged up?

While I do believe IC would beat Lycoming at least 6 out of 10 times they play, probably 7 out of 10 actually, they won the one game that matters.  Period.  When both teams have the same record, I cannot think of a single circumstance where I would rank the team that lost to the other head to head in front of the team that won.

I wouldn't trot out the injury list given who the Bombers were missing