East Region Fan Poll

[bomber3]

Yanks --

"Not one time would you rank the team the won behind the other"

--that is just absurd in my opinion.  Rankings are for the best team not the best individual matchups.  There are a hundred factors that come into play other than just that one single matchup - and within that single matchup there are a lot of other factors to consider.  The whole body of work needs to be taken into consideration and other external circumstances that need to be considered.

[lewdogg11]

Yanks --

"Not one time would you rank the team the won behind the other"

--that is just absurd in my opinion.  Rankings are for the best team not the best individual matchups.  There are a hundred factors that come into play other than just that one single matchup - and within that single matchup there are a lot of other factors to consider.  The whole body of work needs to be taken into consideration and other external circumstances that need to be considered.

I understand this, but at the moment, Ithaca and Lyco have 1 loss apiece.  Lyco lost to Rowan, Ithaca lost to Lyco.  Ithaca's trademark win is over Union, Lyco's is over Ithaca.  Otherwise, they've beaten no one else relevant.

To me, that is hard to say Ithaca should be ranked higher, unless you are partial to Ithaca or the E8.

[bomber3]

Well I am both --in all seriousness excluding playing each other here are their opponents' records(excluding games against IC/Lyco):

Ithaca opponents - 8-4

Lycoming's opponents 4-8

That is a factor also.  But I'm not just saying IC/Lyco I'm saying as a whole you can't just factor in the head to head matchup.

[Yanks 99]

Well I am both --in all seriousness excluding playing each other here are their opponents' records(excluding games against IC/Lyco):

Ithaca opponents - 8-4

Lycoming's opponents 4-8

That is a factor also.  But I'm not just saying IC/Lyco I'm saying as a whole you can't just factor in the head to head matchup.

I wouldn't just factor in the head to head match up if, say, Lyco had 2 or 3 losses.  If they did...I wouldn't necesarily have them ranked ahead of Ithaca.  But when two teams have the same exact record (or same exact number of losses) and one team wins head to head, why would I not rank the team that ahead of them?  Your loyalty for Ithaca is admirable...but also blinding.  You say there are 100's of factor's that come into play other then one single match up.  Well...a team can only play another team once during the regular season...so that is all we have to judge on...a single match up (excluding the possibility of a playoff match up).  What else do you want me to consider?  Whether Zappia broke up with his girlfriend the night before?  Did Ahonen eat a bad piece of fish?

So by your account, Dew Crew could rank Utica #1 next week in the polls (or at least top 2-3) simply because they played SJF tough and were missing their stud receiver, and you wouldn't care???

[PBR...]

Well I am both --in all seriousness excluding playing each other here are their opponents' records(excluding games against IC/Lyco):

Ithaca opponents - 8-4

Lycoming's opponents 4-8

That is a factor also.  But I'm not just saying IC/Lyco I'm saying as a whole you can't just factor in the head to head matchup.

agreed you can't just hang your hat on the head to head matchup but most pollsters will put more weighting on that than opponents records

[bomber3]

Yanks/PBR (we really should be able to quote comments from a BB) -

Should Utica be ranked ahead of Fisher? No, absolutely not.  Why?  Because they haven't beaten anyone with a decent record, weren't missing SEVERAL players with injuries, lost @ home to Fisher, and lost by 10+ points.  IC has beaten teams with good/decent records, were missing a number of their best players, were playing on the road, and lost on a last second field goal.  All those factors add up to my belief that you can (and should IMO) rank IC ahead of Lyco but you can't Utica ahead of Fisher.

[Yanks 99]

Yanks/PBR (we really should be able to quote comments from a BB) -

Should Utica be ranked ahead of Fisher? No, absolutely not.  Why?  Because they haven't beaten anyone with a decent record, weren't missing SEVERAL players with injuries, lost @ home to Fisher, and lost by 10+ points.  IC has beaten teams with good/decent records, were missing a number of their best players, were playing on the road, and lost on a last second field goal.  All those factors add up to my belief that you can (and should IMO) rank IC ahead of Lyco but you can't Utica ahead of Fisher.

Just rank Ithaca #1 then, and call it a day...

[PBR...]

Yanks/PBR (we really should be able to quote comments from a BB) -

Should Utica be ranked ahead of Fisher? No, absolutely not.  Why?  Because they haven't beaten anyone with a decent record, weren't missing SEVERAL players with injuries, lost @ home to Fisher, and lost by 10+ points.  IC has beaten teams with good/decent records, were missing a number of their best players, were playing on the road, and lost on a last second field goal.  All those factors add up to my belief that you can (and should IMO) rank IC ahead of Lyco but you can't Utica ahead of Fisher.

everyone has injuries and people banged up. imho u give that very little creedence....yes they lost on a last second field goal, they are 2 very closely matched teams but the overriding weight that tips the scale in lyco's favor to pbr is they one the head to head matchup. yes you weight in opponents/records/win margins etc...but to this fan head to head gets the most weight. As bill parcells says...your are what your record says you are...and lyco's record shows they beat IC head to head hence at this point in the season they get the nod over IC which could obviously change and probably will...it is interesting to hear everyones views on how they rank teams and where they give heavier weightings. sure the d3 top25 pollsters go thru the same problems everyweek

[Yanks 99]

Yanks/PBR (we really should be able to quote comments from a BB) -

Should Utica be ranked ahead of Fisher? No, absolutely not.  Why?  Because they haven't beaten anyone with a decent record, weren't missing SEVERAL players with injuries, lost @ home to Fisher, and lost by 10+ points.  IC has beaten teams with good/decent records, were missing a number of their best players, were playing on the road, and lost on a last second field goal.  All those factors add up to my belief that you can (and should IMO) rank IC ahead of Lyco but you can't Utica ahead of Fisher.

everyone has injuries and people banged up. imho u give that very little creedence....yes they lost on a last second field goal, they are 2 very closely matched teams but the overriding weight that tips the scale in lyco's favor to pbr is they one the head to head matchup. yes you weight in opponents/records/win margins etc...but to this fan head to head gets the most weight. As bill parcells says...your are what your record says you are...and lyco's record shows they beat IC head to head hence at this point in the season they get the nod over IC which could obviously change and probably will...it is interesting to hear everyones views on how they rank teams and where they give heavier weightings. sure the d3 top25 pollsters go thru the same problems everyweek

Agreed...I might as well rank Hartwick ahead of Ithaca in next week's ERFP.  I mean...I clearly like them better...they only have one more loss then Ithaca...head to head matchup is only 1/100th of the factor of my decision...we had a few guys hurt...we actually "won" the second half...and Dan Brainard's mom didn't make him his favorite dinner before the game like she usually does...

Clearly, I am kidding...but the above reasons/excuses sound ridiculous.  Ithaca is the better team...and they proved it against Hartwick this year in the one opportunity they had against them.

[bomber3]

I might be giving it too much credence but you aren't giving it enough.  When you're without two of your three top receivng threats (when you're a pass first, pass second team), your leading tackler up to that point, and arguably your best OL, you need to give it SOME consideration.  Take those players from Lycoming and put those two teams on a neutral field and I take Ithaca everyday of the week and twice on SATURDAYs.

And ranking the top 25 in D3 is a nightmare that is a crapshoot out of the top few schools.  We have only two teams to decipher out of a pool of about 60 so its relatively easy (or so you would think).

[theoriginalupstate]

Unless your starting QB is out, injuries/missing players mean squat at this level...

[Yanks 99]

We are only talking about ranking the East Region teams on this matter.  It is a nightmare to rank teams from a national level because most teams in the Top 25 don't play each other.  In this case...Ithaca and Lycoming played.  And Lycoming won...

I agree with Upstate...and injuries happen to everyone during the season.  You cannot use it as an excuse.  I still have Ithaca ranked...and believe that they are a top 10 team in the East.  But they lost to a team that now has the same record as they do...so until Lycoming loses, or Ithaca does something completely unexpected...like destoying SJF...they will stay behind Lycoming until the end of the year if both teams keep winning.

[Knightstalker]

I still have Ithaca ranked ahead of Lyco, mostly because I had Ithaca with a fairly high ranking to start and Lyco was off the rankings.  I can't justify jumping Lyco over Springfield and can't really justify moving Springfield past Ithaca yet.  Here is my top ten this week.

1   SJF
2   Del Val
3   Montclair
4   Cortland
5   Alfred
6   Ithaca
7   Springfield
8   Lyco
9   Utica
10   WPU

[Yanks 99]

I still have Ithaca ranked ahead of Lyco, mostly because I had Ithaca with a fairly high ranking to start and Lyco was off the rankings.  I can't justify jumping Lyco over Springfield and can't really justify moving Springfield past Ithaca yet.  Here is my top ten this week.

1   SJF
2   Del Val
3   Montclair
4   Cortland
5   Alfred
6   Ithaca
7   Springfield
8   Lyco
9   Utica
10   WPU

Top 5...the same folks in different places.

Bottom half of the top 10 goes like this:

6) Rowan (only loss to my #2 Montclair)
7) Lycoming (only loss to my #6 Rowan)
8) Ithaca (only loss to my #7 Lycoming)
9) Union (only loss to my #8 Ithaca)
10) Springfield (only loss to my #4 Alfred)

KS...surprised you have William Paterson in the Top 10 over Rowan?  Like the IC-Lycoming discussion, Rowan has the same record as WP, and has handed WP its only loss.

[Pat Coleman]

Unless your starting QB is out, injuries/missing players mean squat at this level...

Wow -- I really don't think this is true.

What I do think is true is that people can't assess the impact of an injury aside from a stud quarterback or running back unless they have very closely observed the program in question. So people like us won't be able to tell per se what the impact is of a missing left tackle or an outside linebacker, but there is definitely an impact.