East Region Fan Poll

[Doid23]

mostly because I had Ithaca with a fairly high ranking to start and Lyco was off the rankings. 

Arrrgggghhh! Not that. Anything but that, please. I personally believe that 4 games into the season a head to head win trumps all, but I can get my head around the neutral field debate, or the injury debate, or the body of work debate, but certainly NOT the "I had them high in my preseason/ early season ranking" answer.

[bomber3]

I am not saying injuries are the only factor.  I stated they are one of many factors that go into consideration.  I am not using it as an excuse; this whole conversation was started because you said the only consideration that matters for two teams with the same record that play each other is the head to head matchup.  If IC destroys Fisher and Lycoming wins they would still have the same record and Lycoming would still own the head to head so according to your initial philosophy they cannot jump them.  You are contradicting yourself because you said the head to head win is the only factor that matters!

[theoriginalupstate]

Unless your starting QB is out, injuries/missing players mean squat at this level...

Wow -- I really don't think this is true.

What I do think is true is that people can't assess the impact of an injury aside from a stud quarterback or running back unless they have very closely observed the program in question. So people like us won't be able to tell per se what the impact is of a missing left tackle or an outside linebacker, but there is definitely an impact.

Don't get me wrong Pat, in the grand scheme of things they do matter and do have some impact on the games.  Just not as big of an impact as a QB and therefore shouldn't be taken into consideration. At this level if you lose your QB during the season you're toast, if any other player goes down you can get by.

[Knightstalker]

mostly because I had Ithaca with a fairly high ranking to start and Lyco was off the rankings. 

Arrrgggghhh! Not that. Anything but that, please. I personally believe that 4 games into the season a head to head win trumps all, but I can get my head around the neutral field debate, or the injury debate, or the body of work debate, but certainly NOT the "I had them high in my preseason/ early season ranking" answer.

Too bad if you do not like it, that is how KS rolls.  Plus 4 weeks into the season I still had Ithaca fairly high.  Lycos win over Ithaca is what moved them  into my poll.  I am supposed to drop a team past others I don't think aren't as good and jump a team over others that I think are better?  I let this work out over the season.  I blew up my poll once last year and it was a mess.  I am not doing that again and to move Lyco past Ithaca from where I had them last week would be a major jump.  Except for the NJAC we are just getting into conf games and this is when things tend to really start working themselves out.

I have a gut feeling about Rowan, I just don't think they are very good this year and also I was kind of rushed when I sent in my poll and made a quick decision on my number 10

[Yanks 99]

I am not saying injuries are the only factor.  I stated they are one of many factors that go into consideration.  I am not using it as an excuse; this whole conversation was started because you said the only consideration that matters for two teams with the same record that play each other is the head to head matchup.  If IC destroys Fisher and Lycoming wins they would still have the same record and Lycoming would still own the head to head so according to your initial philosophy they cannot jump them.  You are contradicting yourself because you said the head to head win is the only factor that matters!

I am not contradicting myself...the only thing that matters when you have the same record is head to head match up.  Even in the extremely unlikely event of an IC blowout over SJF, I personally wouldn't jump IC over Lycoming if Lycoming beat Albright this weekend.  Winner gets the nod...and that theme is generally used as the measure of determing league champions in cases of ties, or who gets into the playoffs in cases of ties.  It's pretty simple actually...you are reaching right now on this one because you are obviously a big IC fan.  In either event...keep on keeping on...keep truckin.  

[bomber3]

You just said 10 mins ago that you would jump them, and I quote, "if IC does something completely unexpected...like destroy Fisher.". That is a direct quote!  Now you're contradicting your contradiction!  Bottom line I have absolutely no problem with you or anyone having Lycoming ahead of IC but I will debate your rationale that the only factor is the head to head W/L.  That's my only beef with this whole debate!

[Yanks 99]

You just said 10 mins ago that you would jump them, and I quote, "if IC does something completely unexpected...like destroy Fisher.". That is a direct quote!  Now you're contradicting your contradiction!  Bottom line I have absolutely no problem with you or anyone having Lycoming ahead of IC but I will debate your rationale that the only factor is the head to head W/L.  That's my only beef with this whole debate!

Didn't say I would jump them...and unlike the last time you quoted me, where you added your own words and paraphrased what I said...you at least got the quote correct.  I should have articulated that better...and made it clear I would give consideration to placing them higher above others.  Let me be very clear...so there is no confusion...if they have the same exact record, Ithaca will never jump Lycoming.  If both finish 9-1...Lycoming would still be ranked higher in my book.

[Bombers798891]

Don't get me wrong Pat, in the grand scheme of things they do matter and do have some impact on the games.  Just not as big of an impact as a QB and therefore shouldn't be taken into consideration. At this level if you lose your QB during the season you're toast, if any other player goes down you can get by.

The 1988 National Champion Ithaca Bombers would disagree with you there... 

[bomber3]

Yanks -

You didn't directly say it but you said they would be behind them unless IC destroys Fisher.  Deductive reasoning says that means you are saying you would jump them if that happens.  Maybe you didn't mean it but you said it.  And if they both went 9-1 that meant IC went undefeated in the 5th toughest conference in the nation (according to ATN).  But I don't have the time or patience to explain that situation...

[Bombers798891]

In general however, I usually believe that starters are starters for a reason. If they weren't better than the guy replacing them, they wouldn't be starters. Yes, I am aware of all the anecdotal stories where the backup is just as good or better. IC's had some of those (Ok, seriously, what did Ryan Steenberg show over Josh Felliceti?). But normally, your starter goes down, you experience a drop-off.

It is sometimes tough to know the specific impact of certain players. I couldn't tell you the difference between Lonsky and Liemer in the safety spot for IC. I do know that the Bombers' linebacking core is probably the best single unit on the team, and that if you're missing a pair of starters from that, it's going to impact play.

I also think good teams are able to exploit certain weaknesses, even if it's just one player, in their game plan

[Yanks 99]

Yanks -

You didn't directly say it but you said they would be behind them unless IC destroys Fisher.  Deductive reasoning says that means you are saying you would jump them if that happens.  Maybe you didn't mean it but you said it.  And if they both went 9-1 that meant IC went undefeated in the 5th toughest conference in the nation (according to ATN).  But I don't have the time or patience to explain that situation...

You win man...Ithaca #1 FOREVER!!!

[maxpower]

LOL and +k on 1000 posts Yanks. Go Yanks.

[theoriginalupstate]

Don't get me wrong Pat, in the grand scheme of things they do matter and do have some impact on the games.  Just not as big of an impact as a QB and therefore shouldn't be taken into consideration. At this level if you lose your QB during the season you're toast, if any other player goes down you can get by.

The 1988 National Champion Ithaca Bombers would disagree with you there... 

Good point, I see what you're saying. However, the Bills were somewhat good and I was 10 at that time just to point out it's relevance now. Also, there weren't nearly as many quality D-3 programs around to steal talent away from the Bombers back then.

[theoriginalupstate]

Yanks -

You didn't directly say it but you said they would be behind them unless IC destroys Fisher.  Deductive reasoning says that means you are saying you would jump them if that happens.  Maybe you didn't mean it but you said it.  And if they both went 9-1 that meant IC went undefeated in the 5th toughest conference in the nation (according to ATN).  But I don't have the time or patience to explain that situation...

You win man...Ithaca #1 FOREVER!!!

It's about time you caught on, other than Fisher week I just play along with the Ithaca guys to fluff up their collective egos...

[Bombers798891]

Don't get me wrong Pat, in the grand scheme of things they do matter and do have some impact on the games.  Just not as big of an impact as a QB and therefore shouldn't be taken into consideration. At this level if you lose your QB during the season you're toast, if any other player goes down you can get by.

The 1988 National Champion Ithaca Bombers would disagree with you there... 

Good point, I see what you're saying. However, the Bills were somewhat good and I was 10 at that time just to point out it's relevance now. Also, there weren't nearly as many quality D-3 programs around to steal talent away from the Bombers back then.

Oh no worries. That was a shameless plug. Besides, the Bombers were almost exclusively a running team back then...