East Region Fan Poll

[AUPepBand]

just 'thinkin' out loud here...and wondering how strong this Fisher team is compared to the 2006 squad that hung within 5 pts until 4 minutes to go against MUC.

I saw several games live that year and 2 so far this year.  In my mind, this present team is at least a 7pt underdog to the 2006 team.  How that equates to the relative strength of the East this year and the rest of the country remains to be seen.

The 2 major differences are the RB and the defense as a whole.  I have seen Borum carry the ball 40 or so times this year, and I cannot recall seeing him break many tackles nor do I recall seeing him getting to the second level on too many runs.  Robinson did that on almost every carry in 2006.  I dont see Borum busting through MUC's defensive line on 4th and goal from the 1 in December like Robby did in '06.  You need that to go deep in December. 

Yes their passing game is the 'greatest show on turf' since the Rams of Warner, Faulk, et al, but passing games can become erratic, and good defenses will make you pay for being 1 dimensional.

Their current defense is a far cry from the ball-hawking defense that led them in 06.  Stepnick and Lang were animals.  This defense is very adequate, and even showed some spark against IC this week, but very adequate means you only give up 49 to MUC in December instead of 49 by half time.  And dont tell me about bend dont break defense, because the 06 defense never bent OR broke..well, except the Chris Sharpe debacle, but they were down Stepnick and others that game.

So...being the glass is laying broken on the floor instead of half-full guy that I am....I am going out on a limb and stating that should we make the NCAA's this year, anything less than a 4th quarter show-down with MUC along the way will prove the correctness of the foregoing non-sense.

I kinda see us going down in a shootout with DVC ala 2004...before MUC gets their teeth in us.

While 82 seems intent on drawing comparisons of the 2010 Cardinals to the 2006 Cardinals, Pep wonders whether 82 had taken note of the fact that SJF defeated Ithaca 34-10 in 2006, identical score to the 2010.  Seems rather coincidental, no?

On Saxon Warriors!

[maxpower]

While 82 seems intent on drawing comparisons of the 2010 Cardinals to the 2006 Cardinals, Pep wonders whether 82 had taken note of the fact that SJF defeated Ithaca 34-10 in 2006, identical score to the 2010.  Seems rather coincidental, no?

I noticed that as well Pep.... that score will be burned into my brain for a while after 2006....

[rams1102]

Had a thought about the East and the East Poll.

Let's throw Wesley into the mix and see how things shake out. I firmly believe that Wesley should be an East team, but the roster limit is a problem. Anyway I came up with (9) teams from the East.

Wesley, Del-Val,Fisher, Cortland, Montclair, Alferd, Hobart, Lycoming, & Suny Mar. The winner should be a formidable final four candidate. This will make a nice (8). There are other possibilities, but as of now this may work.

I feel that Wesley would be #1 and the travel to Wesley would be under the 400-500 mile NCAA, you take a bus.

Any Thoughts and possibilities?

[theoriginalupstate]

Had a thought about the East and the East Poll.

Let's throw Wesley into the mix and see how things shake out. I firmly believe that Wesley should be an East team, but the roster limit is a problem. Anyway I came up with (9) teams from the East.

Wesley, Del-Val,Fisher, Cortland, Montclair, Alferd, Hobart, Lycoming, & Suny Mar. The winner should be a formidable final four candidate. This will make a nice (8). There are other possibilities, but as of now this may work.

I feel that Wesley would be #1 and the travel to Wesley would be under the 400-500 mile NCAA, you take a bus.

Any Thoughts and possibilities?

What about the NEFC rep?

[rams1102]

Had a thought about the East and the East Poll.

Let's throw Wesley into the mix and see how things shake out. I firmly believe that Wesley should be an East team, but the roster limit is a problem. Anyway I came up with (9) teams from the East.

Wesley, Del-Val,Fisher, Cortland, Montclair, Alferd, Hobart, Lycoming, & Suny Mar. The winner should be a formidable final four candidate. This will make a nice (8). There are other possibilities, but as of now this may work.

I feel that Wesley would be #1 and the travel to Wesley would be under the 400-500 mile NCAA, you take a bus.

Any Thoughts and possibilities?

What about the NEFC rep?


[/quote/]

OK, let's throw in Endicott, Plymouth or Mass Mar. Pick one.

[SJFF82]

just 'thinkin' out loud here...and wondering how strong this Fisher team is compared to the 2006 squad that hung within 5 pts until 4 minutes to go against MUC.

I saw several games live that year and 2 so far this year.  In my mind, this present team is at least a 7pt underdog to the 2006 team.  How that equates to the relative strength of the East this year and the rest of the country remains to be seen.

The 2 major differences are the RB and the defense as a whole.  I have seen Borum carry the ball 40 or so times this year, and I cannot recall seeing him break many tackles nor do I recall seeing him getting to the second level on too many runs.  Robinson did that on almost every carry in 2006.  I dont see Borum busting through MUC's defensive line on 4th and goal from the 1 in December like Robby did in '06.  You need that to go deep in December. 

Yes their passing game is the 'greatest show on turf' since the Rams of Warner, Faulk, et al, but passing games can become erratic, and good defenses will make you pay for being 1 dimensional.

Their current defense is a far cry from the ball-hawking defense that led them in 06.  Stepnick and Lang were animals.  This defense is very adequate, and even showed some spark against IC this week, but very adequate means you only give up 49 to MUC in December instead of 49 by half time.  And dont tell me about bend dont break defense, because the 06 defense never bent OR broke..well, except the Chris Sharpe debacle, but they were down Stepnick and others that game.

So...being the glass is laying broken on the floor instead of half-full guy that I am....I am going out on a limb and stating that should we make the NCAA's this year, anything less than a 4th quarter show-down with MUC along the way will prove the correctness of the foregoing non-sense.

I kinda see us going down in a shootout with DVC ala 2004...before MUC gets their teeth in us.

While 82 seems intent on drawing comparisons of the 2010 Cardinals to the 2006 Cardinals, Pep wonders whether 82 had taken note of the fact that SJF defeated Ithaca 34-10 in 2006, identical score to the 2010.  Seems rather coincidental, no?

On Saxon Warriors!

82 did not take note, although 82 remembers well, having shown up just a few minutes late for that game and looking at the scoreboard from the parking lot to see the Cardinals down 10-0 already....82 was thinkin...oh no, this is not going to be good.  Then, the defense made (I think) 2 incredible goal line stands in the second quarter, and scored 10 to even it up at the half.  Then...the energy and fire that the defense brought in the 3rd quarter to absolutely manhandle the IC offense was something I had never seen before live at a football game, and will likely never see again.  You could  'feel' the momentum in the stands...it was pretty impressive.  That is the type of defense 82 is talking about that is presently missing.  Those first couple of series in the 3rd quarter of that game, IMO, really set the stage and carried that team all the way to Alliance...

[footballfan75]

Well you cant throw in Mass Maritime as a rep for the NEFC. ha The top four teams are Endicott, Plymouth State, Maine Maritime, and Framingham. RIght now i would throw in Endicott.

[Yanks 99]

Well you cant throw in Mass Maritime as a rep for the NEFC. ha The top four teams are Endicott, Plymouth State, Maine Maritime, and Framingham. RIght now i would throw in Endicott.

I wish we could throw out all of the NEFC reps...nothing personal...

[theoriginalupstate]

Well you cant throw in Mass Maritime as a rep for the NEFC. ha The top four teams are Endicott, Plymouth State, Maine Maritime, and Framingham. RIght now i would throw in Endicott.

I wish we could throw out all of the NEFC reps...nothing personal...

Still hurting from that 07 loss to Curry are we?

[footballfan75]

Well you cant throw in Mass Maritime as a rep for the NEFC. ha The top four teams are Endicott, Plymouth State, Maine Maritime, and Framingham. RIght now i would throw in Endicott.

I wish we could throw out all of the NEFC reps...nothing personal...

Still hurting from that 07 loss to Curry are we?

[Yanks 99]

Well you cant throw in Mass Maritime as a rep for the NEFC. ha The top four teams are Endicott, Plymouth State, Maine Maritime, and Framingham. RIght now i would throw in Endicott.

I wish we could throw out all of the NEFC reps...nothing personal...

Still hurting from that 07 loss to Curry are we?

No...but without a "Curry" in the race this year, and possibly next...how good will the East Region "bracket" be if we now get an NEFC rep and a ECFC rep?  It is like they are taking away all Pool C bids.  I know they aren't really...but you watch...a number of one loss teams over the next few years aren't going to make the playoffs, or even have a chance to.  The NEFC and ECFC (assuming SUNY-Maritime runs the table) are going to have a rep in the playoffs this year that is no better than the bottom teams of the E8, NJAC, or MAC.  I mean Utica...who still hasn't beaten a decent team yet this year...absolutely destroyed Castleton State.  Castleton State only lost by 13 to SUNY-Maritime and beat Mount Ida...and Mount Ida absolutely destroyed Plymouth State.  Take these 6 conferences, have the committee move over MUC like they always do...and that pretty much leaves the second place team between the E8, NJAC, MAC, and LL to fight for one spot.

[labart96]

The "east bracket" will probably still be viewed as the "weakest".  The west and north are loaded with teams and will be handicapped somewhat due to geographical rules.  

This year the NEFC rep will get a Pool A as always and if SUNY M goes 10-0 they'd potentially get a Pool B (not C).  I assume, however, you were talking in future tense (i.e., when the ECFC has an auto bid), right?  Realistically however, those Pool As will probably end up being 7 and 8 seeds (and/or "road teams") and most likely will be one and done's going forward (exceptions like 07 popping up on occasion).  Actually, ECFC teams in the mix may actually "help" LL and other conferences advance to the second round (e.g., a 10-0 SUNY M hosts a 7-2 Hobart team, I'd say generally Hobart wins that game 9x out of 10).

Eric, Frank and I had a good conversation with Pat on last Sunday's ITH and the reality is that there are a number of teams, both in and outside our region, that will be ending the year with 9-1 records not getting Pool As (e.g., Ohio Northern in the OAC, the loser of this weekend's Coe vs. Wartburg IIAC clash, etc.) competing for the 6 (thx frank) Pool Cs, and a few of those teams could possibly get bumped by 8-2 teams from "stronger conferences" (not likely, especially given the current NCAA committee's views, but it has happened in the past).

That said, I still think the "East" has a good shot at "Fisher / Alfred" bracket or a "Montclair / Cortland" one, if either or both the E8 and NJAC champs go 10-0.  It's not a done deal that MUC or Wesley comes over, especially if there are potentially three 10-0 teams in the "East"...

I posted a variation on this last week but let's "best guess" the following Pool A's go out:

E8 - SJFC (10-0) or Alfred (10-0)
NJAC - MSU (10-0) or Cortland (10-0)
MAC - DVC (9-1)
LL - crapshoot at this point, but will say Hobart at 7-2 b/c I'm "a little biased" and honestly, their schedule is pretty favorable (2 home games, and only "tough" road game is to RPI who've been so-so on offense to date)
NEFC - Endicott (10-1 - assuming they have a 10th win after winning the Boyd-Bogan title)

Pool B
ECFC - SUNY M (assuming they go 10-0, its possible Norwich could snag this spot if they beat SUNY M H2H and have "better" OCC wins)

Pool C contenders (I really only see 2 possibilities in the "east"):

1 E8 candidate - either a 9-1 Fisher or Alfred (assuming they are still in the Top 25 given only H2H loss would be to the other)
1 NJAC candidate - either a 9-1 Rowan, Cortland or MSU ("")

I don't see there being any Pool C options coming out of the MAC, NEFC, ECFC or LL this season.  But yeah, in the future, its likely several teams will be competing for a single Pool C, but it's not like that's unique to the East.  A lot of teams, take a potentially 9-1 Redlands in the SCIAC (who lost on a blocked FG to CLU) that would basically get left out of the NCAAs due to a single league loss and the fact they are "geographically difficult".  

Parting shot - I think there is a very likely possibility that a 9-1 NJAC team could get left out this year.

[Frank Rossi]

Quick correction, TGP:

There are 23 Pool A Conferences.

There are 3 Pool B bids.

That leaves 6 Pool C bids.

[labart96]

Quick correction, TGP:

There are 23 Pool A Conferences.

There are 3 Pool B bids.

That leaves 6 Pool C bids.

that's why you're the top 25 voter and i'm not

[Pat Coleman]

Actually, I don't want the Top 25 voters to pay any credence to the f'ed up way Division III chooses its at-large teams.