East Region Fan Poll

[pumkinattack]

You're correct, I was confused, thinking I had Fisher 7.  I think they'll end up around 5-6, but I can't push them ahead of undefeated NJAC or MAC teams yet, with only a few data points and less knowledge about those conferences. 

[dlippiel]

Take into account that, at least to dlip, Del Val is a difficult read right now. dlip feels they are the team to beat in the MAC but how good are they right now in comparison to Cortland/Salisbury/Kean amoung others? The Aggies have put up 108 points the last two weeks against horse **** competition, but have done so with a young offense. Is this team going to run the table in the MAC. dlip thinks he will know more in two weeks after they venture out to Albright. As of right now their first three wins of the season, although not overly impressive, give dlip the idea that running the table in the MAC may be a legit possibility for Del Val.

[Frank Rossi]

DelVal is an odd case this year.  They're creeping their way up my ballot, more because of other teams losing than anything else.  When I first kept them in my ballot to start the season, I did it based on the returning defense since offensively, they lost basically their entire starting lineup.  Part of me had little confidence, but I honored their past performance since recruiting will generally assist in filling in the holes (although, it's rare to see this level of turnover).

That said, they've continued to win -- not always pretty, but they're winning.  Every game that offense plays means more and more confidence and experience.  DelVal is going to be a big problem for opponents over the next couple years based on this experience.  Right now, I would guess the team will still lose a game or two before the end of the season (a la Alfred -- DelVal last year found a way to drop one game after an exhausting season that caught everyone by surprise).  However, until the team does lose, I'm going to continue honoring my own preliminary assessment that the team's recruiting is head and shoulders above most teams in the Region.

[gordonmann]

As Del Val's radio guy, I've seen every game they've played since 2003. I'm also friendly with the people in the program. I've really enjoyed covering the Aggies and feel a personal connection to the program. So I'll admit that colors my perspective.

When the season started, Del Val wasn't on my Top 25 ballot because they lost every offensive starter except for the left guard and the tight end who platoons and is primarily a blocker. They lost a senior quarter back, a running back who has every school record and four of five starters off the best offensive line they've had. Plus they lost a three time All American on defense.

I added the Aggues to my ballot after they beat FDU-Florham, not because that win was surprising, but because I couldn't find room for them the week before when they beat Leb Val. The Muhlenberg and W&J wins were hairy, even over good teams. I suspect those two will finish second in their respective conferences, but they could have easily been Ls isntead of Ws.

The Leb Val win was legit. The Flying Dutchmen who have a really good offense scored 10 points and 7 of them were set up by a kick return to the 1-yard line. All American running back Charlie Guiles had 67 yards. 

As Frank said, the offense is really young. They have a freshman quarterback, Aaron Wilmer, who was a redshirt freshman at Division II West Chester. He's a phenomenal talent - powerful arm, good accuracy and great scrambling ability. He's only playing at this level because he's under 6-foot.  But it's scary to think how much better he'll get.   The Aggies also have a couple very impressive young wide receivers and a sophomore running back who has three straight 100-yard games.  The line is okay and getting better, but nowhere near last year's version. They struggle to run the ball against tough defenses.

The defense remains very good. Coach Clements does a remarkable job recruiting talent and reloading on defense.  As lopsided as the FDU-Florham and Stevenson final scores were, the games were even more so. FDU-Florham scored 7 points against Del Val's reserves after an interception. Stevenson had 60 yards of offense on the first 6 plays of the game. On the next 19 they had 1 yard and four turnovers. They had 98 yards through the first three quarters before Del Val brought in reservers.  That's an offense that had been averaging 400+ yards per game.

All of that said, I agree with Frank's assessment. I could see Del Val losing a couple games. I think Lycoming and Widener are underrated in this Fan Poll, but I understand why.  Del Val's offense could play flat, turn the ball over or just pick up penalties at bad times (an Aggies speciality on boths sides of the ball that hasn't hurt them too much yet). 

Keep an eye on the Wilkes game this weekend. Del Val always has a hard time playing there. Same goes for Lycoming in November.

[wesleydad]

i will throw my 2 cents in.  i have seen all 3 teams play, del val, cortland, and kean.  from what i saw cortland and delval are better than kean.  del val will get better as the season goes on on offense and the d is tough.  cortland beat rowan who i was not impressed by, but i liked how cortland adjusted after the half to take over the game.  kean has taken advantage of teams not playing their best and i believe will lose a couple of games.  i would not be stunned if del val runs the table in the mac.  i would like to see a cortland - del val game. 

[rams1102]

And I just don't understand how ANYONE can have Cortland ranked 1 ahead of Kean.  They played head to head and lost.  Cortland's only loss.  Kean is undefeated.  Until Kean loses, I just don't know how that can be justified.

I'm one of those that voted Cortland #1. I'm voter #3. As a Montclair fan you know there is no love lost w/Cortland. I don't like them, but respect them. I try not to be a homer in the poll. Give Kean credit, they are undefeated but :

1. They got lucky against a Wesley team that did not play well, but a W is a W.
2. Cortland blew it at the end and beat them in the stat dept.
3. Also lost in the stat dept to Wesley.
4. Did not play well against a weak W.Conn team.
5. Should have lost to TCNJ. Did you watch the live video?

After all is said and done, they are 4-0, beat Wesley / Cortland. IMHO,  can't make them #1. Maybe as the season progresses. My Red Hawks are 4-0, but who have they beat and survived with their lives against M-Ville. The winner of the Montclair / Cortland in my opinion should be #1 in the East Fan Poll.

[/list]

[Yanks 99]

And I just don't understand how ANYONE can have Cortland ranked 1 ahead of Kean.  They played head to head and lost.  Cortland's only loss.  Kean is undefeated.  Until Kean loses, I just don't know how that can be justified.

I'm one of those that voted Cortland #1. I'm voter #3. As a Montclair fan you know there is no love lost w/Cortland. I don't like them, but respect them. I try not to be a homer in the poll. Give Kean credit, they are undefeated but :

1. They got lucky against a Wesley team that did not play well, but a W is a W.
2. Cortland blew it at the end and beat them in the stat dept.
3. Also lost in the stat dept to Wesley.
4. Did not play well against a weak W.Conn team.
5. Should have lost to TCNJ. Did you watch the live video?

After all is said and done, they are 4-0, beat Wesley / Cortland. IMHO,  can't make them #1. Maybe as the season progresses. My Red Hawks are 4-0, but who have they beat and survived with their lives against M-Ville. The winner of the Montclair / Cortland in my opinion should be #1 in the East Fan Poll.

[/list]

I am with LD on this one...there is no way that I can justify putting Cortland ahead of Kean.  They get one shot at each other all year...and Cortland didn't get it done.  If we don't take head to head match ups into account, just go with your favorite team as #1, head-to-head match-ups be damned (although I know Rams is a Montclair fan, and not a Cortland fan).  Besides...like I said in an earlier post, Cortland hasn't been that impressive at all this year either, and is probably lucky to be 3-1 (I am Voter #4...and I had Cortland ranked #1 to start the year). 

Try this out:

"Give Cortland credit, they have one-loss but:

1. They got lucky against a Rowan team that did not play well, but a W is a W.
2. Buff State blew it at the end against Cortland and beat them in the stat dept.
3. Also lost in the stat dept to Buff State, and was down at half time to Rowan and to Buff State late in the 3rd.
4. Did not play well against a weak Buff State team (at home).
5. Should have lost to Rowan. Did you watch the live video?

After all is said and done, they (Cortland) are 3-1, beating nobody to date with an above .500 record, with a combined record of 4-9.  IMHO, can't make them #1."

Somehow...it just doesn't sound right...or make any sense...

Also...there would be no way that I would move Montclair to #1 next week...even if they blow out Cortland, and assuming that Kean beats Buff State.  I have Montclair at #2 in the poll right now...but mostly by virtue of where they were ranked to start the year, and with other teams losing.  That being said, they have also not been very "impressive" this year if we are going to start looking at other things besides head-to-head wins.  I mean...a nine point win at home against a 2-3 Salve Regina team?  A one point win over a 0-4 Morrisville State team that just missed winning the game on the 2-point conversion attempt with 20 seconds left in the game?  A seven point win over an 0-4 Brockport team? 

You had mentioned Kean losing in the stat department before as one of the main reasons to rank Cortland ahead of them...but did you know that Montclair had been beat in the stat department by Morrisville, Brockport, and Buff State?  A blowout win over Cortland would be their greatest win by far this year, but at the end of the day, it would be simply beating up on a 3-2 team that would probably not be ranked in the top 10 in next week's poll.

[SJFF82]

And I just don't understand how ANYONE can have Cortland ranked 1 ahead of Kean.  They played head to head and lost.  Cortland's only loss.  Kean is undefeated.  Until Kean loses, I just don't know how that can be justified.

I'm one of those that voted Cortland #1. I'm voter #3. As a Montclair fan you know there is no love lost w/Cortland. I don't like them, but respect them. I try not to be a homer in the poll. Give Kean credit, they are undefeated but :

1. They got lucky against a Wesley team that did not play well, but a W is a W.
2. Cortland blew it at the end and beat them in the stat dept.
3. Also lost in the stat dept to Wesley.
4. Did not play well against a weak W.Conn team.
5. Should have lost to TCNJ. Did you watch the live video?

After all is said and done, they are 4-0, beat Wesley / Cortland. IMHO,  can't make them #1. Maybe as the season progresses. My Red Hawks are 4-0, but who have they beat and survived with their lives against M-Ville. The winner of the Montclair / Cortland in my opinion should be #1 in the East Fan Poll.

[/list]

I am with LD on this one...there is no way that I can justify putting Cortland ahead of Kean.  They get one shot at each other all year...and Cortland didn't get it done.  If we don't take head to head match ups into account, just go with your favorite team as #1, head-to-head match-ups be damned (although I know Rams is a Montclair fan, and not a Cortland fan).  Besides...like I said in an earlier post, Cortland hasn't been that impressive at all this year either, and is probably lucky to be 3-1 (I am Voter #4...and I had Cortland ranked #1 to start the year). 

Try this out:

"Give Cortland credit, they have one-loss but:

1. They got lucky against a Rowan team that did not play well, but a W is a W.
2. Buff State blew it at the end against Cortland and beat them in the stat dept.
3. Also lost in the stat dept to Buff State, and was down at half time to Rowan and to Buff State late in the 3rd.
4. Did not play well against a weak Buff State team (at home).
5. Should have lost to Rowan. Did you watch the live video?

After all is said and done, they (Cortland) are 3-1, beating nobody to date with an above .500 record, with a combined record of 4-9.  IMHO, can't make them #1."

Somehow...it just doesn't sound right...or make any sense...

Also...there would be no way that I would move Montclair to #1 next week...even if they blow out Cortland, and assuming that Kean beats Buff State.  I have Montclair at #2 in the poll right now...but mostly by virtue of where they were ranked to start the year, and with other teams losing.  That being said, they have also not been very "impressive" this year if we are going to start looking at other things besides head-to-head wins.  I mean...a nine point win at home against a 2-3 Salve Regina team?  A one point win over a 0-4 Morrisville State team that just missed winning the game on the 2-point conversion attempt with 20 seconds left in the game?  A seven point win over an 0-4 Brockport team? 

You had mentioned Kean losing in the stat department before as one of the main reasons to rank Cortland ahead of them...but did you know that Montclair had been beat in the stat department by Morrisville, Brockport, and Buff State?  A blowout win over Cortland would be their greatest win by far this year, but at the end of the day, it would be simply beating up on a 3-2 team that would probably not be ranked in the top 10 in next week's poll.

well then SJF should be ranked ahead of AU and Appalachain State ahead of Michigan (2007) despite the fact they are in different divisions altogether.  Head to Head is huge when comparing teams of apparent equal strengh, however, if you can reasonably justify as rams1102 has, then I can acccept it.

[rams1102]

And I just don't understand how ANYONE can have Cortland ranked 1 ahead of Kean.  They played head to head and lost.  Cortland's only loss.  Kean is undefeated.  Until Kean loses, I just don't know how that can be justified.

I'm one of those that voted Cortland #1. I'm voter #3. As a Montclair fan you know there is no love lost w/Cortland. I don't like them, but respect them. I try not to be a homer in the poll. Give Kean credit, they are undefeated but :

1. They got lucky against a Wesley team that did not play well, but a W is a W.
2. Cortland blew it at the end and beat them in the stat dept.
3. Also lost in the stat dept to Wesley.
4. Did not play well against a weak W.Conn team.
5. Should have lost to TCNJ. Did you watch the live video?

After all is said and done, they are 4-0, beat Wesley / Cortland. IMHO,  can't make them #1. Maybe as the season progresses. My Red Hawks are 4-0, but who have they beat and survived with their lives against M-Ville. The winner of the Montclair / Cortland in my opinion should be #1 in the East Fan Poll.

[/list]

I am with LD on this one...there is no way that I can justify putting Cortland ahead of Kean.  They get one shot at each other all year...and Cortland didn't get it done.  If we don't take head to head match ups into account, just go with your favorite team as #1, head-to-head match-ups be damned (although I know Rams is a Montclair fan, and not a Cortland fan).  Besides...like I said in an earlier post, Cortland hasn't been that impressive at all this year either, and is probably lucky to be 3-1 (I am Voter #4...and I had Cortland ranked #1 to start the year). 

Try this out:

"Give Cortland credit, they have one-loss but:

1. They got lucky against a Rowan team that did not play well, but a W is a W.
2. Buff State blew it at the end against Cortland and beat them in the stat dept.
3. Also lost in the stat dept to Buff State, and was down at half time to Rowan and to Buff State late in the 3rd.
4. Did not play well against a weak Buff State team (at home).
5. Should have lost to Rowan. Did you watch the live video?

After all is said and done, they (Cortland) are 3-1, beating nobody to date with an above .500 record, with a combined record of 4-9.  IMHO, can't make them #1."

Somehow...it just doesn't sound right...or make any sense...

Also...there would be no way that I would move Montclair to #1 next week...even if they blow out Cortland, and assuming that Kean beats Buff State.  I have Montclair at #2 in the poll right now...but mostly by virtue of where they were ranked to start the year, and with other teams losing.  That being said, they have also not been very "impressive" this year if we are going to start looking at other things besides head-to-head wins.  I mean...a nine point win at home against a 2-3 Salve Regina team?  A one point win over a 0-4 Morrisville State team that just missed winning the game on the 2-point conversion attempt with 20 seconds left in the game?  A seven point win over an 0-4 Brockport team? 

You had mentioned Kean losing in the stat department before as one of the main reasons to rank Cortland ahead of them...but did you know that Montclair had been beat in the stat department by Morrisville, Brockport, and Buff State?  A blowout win over Cortland would be their greatest win by far this year, but at the end of the day, it would be simply beating up on a 3-2 team that would probably not be ranked in the top 10 in next week's poll.

You make it sound like I am a homer for Montclair. You are wrong. I love my Red Hawks, but they are unimprerssive this year at 4-0. A good win over Cortland makes them #1 IMHO since Kean was lucky to get away with a win against Cortland. Montclair sucks in the stat's part of it this year, I beat up the O Coordinator many times. There is still a lot of games left in the NJAC. If I mis read your comment, I apologize.

[Bombers798891]

Part of the reason Kean loses the stats battle so often is that they dominate special teams. Kickoff returns for TD's. Blocked punts returned for TD's—every time we turn around, Kean's blocked another kick. These things have a way of skewing traditional stats, but they still matter.

As far as Kean not playing great against W. Conn, you can't really argue it, but let's not kid ourselves. Rowan and Buffalo State aren't exactly worldbeaters right now and Cortland didn't really light them up. So shouldn't that be similarly held against the Red Dragons?

The thing that does it for me is this: Between the two teams, Kean has the THREE best wins. That's sort of astounding only four weeks into a season, isn't it? Yes, they weren't always dominating, but beating Cortland, Wesley and TCNJ is a heck of a lot more impressive than beating Buff State, Rowan and Morrisville

[rams1102]

Part of the reason Kean loses the stats battle so often is that they dominate special teams. Kickoff returns for TD's. Blocked punts returned for TD's—every time we turn around, Kean's blocked another kick. These things have a way of skewing traditional stats, but they still matter.

As far as Kean not playing great against W. Conn, you can't really argue it, but let's not kid ourselves. Rowan and Buffalo State aren't exactly worldbeaters right now and Cortland didn't really light them up. So shouldn't that be similarly held against the Red Dragons?

The thing that does it for me is this: Between the two teams, Kean has the THREE best wins. That's sort of astounding only four weeks into a season, isn't it? Yes, they weren't always dominating, but beating Cortland, Wesley and TCNJ is a heck of a lot more impressive than beating Buff State, Rowan and Morrisville

OK, here is your shoulda woda couda. Instead of Cortland missing on 4th and goal from the 2 yard line with time running out, they made it, where would you then rank Kean now? Keep in mind that I think that Kean is a good team, but not #1 IMHO. A good win by Montclair over Cortland makes them #1. When Montclair, Cortland , Rowan and Kean play each other, this will all be answered. That will take some time, but this is really fun to discuss.

[wesleydad]

only hypothetical point i will argue in this discussion is that in no way should cortland have lost to rowan.  i didnt need to see the live video, i saw the game live and cortland took over in the second half and dominated.  the score is only close due to the late rowan td.  head to head matters, but if you look at the national pool, wesley has jumped back over kean.  is wesley better, from what i saw live there is no doubt, but the scoreboard says otherwise.  is cortland likely better than kean, from what i saw live i believe so, but the scoreboard says otherwise.  is delval better than kean, from what i saw live i also believe so.  in the end this is all opinion which makes it fun.  as you can tell i have no dog in this east argument, but if kean is the top team in the east at they end they will have run the table against some pretty good teams and will have earned it , opinions be damned.

[Yanks 99]

And I just don't understand how ANYONE can have Cortland ranked 1 ahead of Kean.  They played head to head and lost.  Cortland's only loss.  Kean is undefeated.  Until Kean loses, I just don't know how that can be justified.

I'm one of those that voted Cortland #1. I'm voter #3. As a Montclair fan you know there is no love lost w/Cortland. I don't like them, but respect them. I try not to be a homer in the poll. Give Kean credit, they are undefeated but :

1. They got lucky against a Wesley team that did not play well, but a W is a W.
2. Cortland blew it at the end and beat them in the stat dept.
3. Also lost in the stat dept to Wesley.
4. Did not play well against a weak W.Conn team.
5. Should have lost to TCNJ. Did you watch the live video?

After all is said and done, they are 4-0, beat Wesley / Cortland. IMHO,  can't make them #1. Maybe as the season progresses. My Red Hawks are 4-0, but who have they beat and survived with their lives against M-Ville. The winner of the Montclair / Cortland in my opinion should be #1 in the East Fan Poll.

[/list]

I am with LD on this one...there is no way that I can justify putting Cortland ahead of Kean.  They get one shot at each other all year...and Cortland didn't get it done.  If we don't take head to head match ups into account, just go with your favorite team as #1, head-to-head match-ups be damned (although I know Rams is a Montclair fan, and not a Cortland fan).  Besides...like I said in an earlier post, Cortland hasn't been that impressive at all this year either, and is probably lucky to be 3-1 (I am Voter #4...and I had Cortland ranked #1 to start the year). 

Try this out:

"Give Cortland credit, they have one-loss but:

1. They got lucky against a Rowan team that did not play well, but a W is a W.
2. Buff State blew it at the end against Cortland and beat them in the stat dept.
3. Also lost in the stat dept to Buff State, and was down at half time to Rowan and to Buff State late in the 3rd.
4. Did not play well against a weak Buff State team (at home).
5. Should have lost to Rowan. Did you watch the live video?

After all is said and done, they (Cortland) are 3-1, beating nobody to date with an above .500 record, with a combined record of 4-9.  IMHO, can't make them #1."

Somehow...it just doesn't sound right...or make any sense...

Also...there would be no way that I would move Montclair to #1 next week...even if they blow out Cortland, and assuming that Kean beats Buff State.  I have Montclair at #2 in the poll right now...but mostly by virtue of where they were ranked to start the year, and with other teams losing.  That being said, they have also not been very "impressive" this year if we are going to start looking at other things besides head-to-head wins.  I mean...a nine point win at home against a 2-3 Salve Regina team?  A one point win over a 0-4 Morrisville State team that just missed winning the game on the 2-point conversion attempt with 20 seconds left in the game?  A seven point win over an 0-4 Brockport team? 

You had mentioned Kean losing in the stat department before as one of the main reasons to rank Cortland ahead of them...but did you know that Montclair had been beat in the stat department by Morrisville, Brockport, and Buff State?  A blowout win over Cortland would be their greatest win by far this year, but at the end of the day, it would be simply beating up on a 3-2 team that would probably not be ranked in the top 10 in next week's poll.

well then SJF should be ranked ahead of AU and Appalachain State ahead of Michigan (2007) despite the fact they are in different divisions altogether.  Head to Head is huge when comparing teams of apparent equal strengh, however, if you can reasonably justify as rams1102 has, then I can acccept it.

82...I do have SJFC (#7) ranked ahead of Alfred (#8) this week.  That was actually a pretty easy decision.  I agree with you though...head to head matchup is huge when comparing teams of equal strength, which is why when two teams from the same league play against each other, and the visiting team (who the week before beat an undisputed regional power, and borderline national power) comes to town and finds a way to beat the home team on their own field, I just personally find it difficult/impossible to justify ranking the home team (that just lost) ahead of the visiting team (that just won).

It is nothing personal against rams1102...and I hope it didn't come across that way.  I just completely disagree with him on this one.  If Kean had two losses at this point, and Cortland only had one, then I could justify putting Cortland ahead of Kean.  Until that happens...Kean will remain above Cortland.

[RedDragonFan]

I agree with Yanks completely that the Kean win over CState should keep them on top even with a CState win over Montclair. The head to head win on the road is huge.  I've suddenly become a fan of anyone playing Kean for the rest of the season.

Good luck to all this week, well with one exception!

[dlippiel]

And I just don't understand how ANYONE can have Cortland ranked 1 ahead of Kean.  They played head to head and lost.  Cortland's only loss.  Kean is undefeated.  Until Kean loses, I just don't know how that can be justified.

I'm one of those that voted Cortland #1. I'm voter #3. As a Montclair fan you know there is no love lost w/Cortland. I don't like them, but respect them. I try not to be a homer in the poll. Give Kean credit, they are undefeated but :

1. They got lucky against a Wesley team that did not play well, but a W is a W.
2. Cortland blew it at the end and beat them in the stat dept.
3. Also lost in the stat dept to Wesley.
4. Did not play well against a weak W.Conn team.
5. Should have lost to TCNJ. Did you watch the live video?

After all is said and done, they are 4-0, beat Wesley / Cortland. IMHO,  can't make them #1. Maybe as the season progresses. My Red Hawks are 4-0, but who have they beat and survived with their lives against M-Ville. The winner of the Montclair / Cortland in my opinion should be #1 in the East Fan Poll.

[/list]

dlip thinks it's importamt for us all to keep Salisbury on our radar throughout the season. Salisbury has a very challenging remaining schedule with games against Alfred, Wesley, and SJF. Not to mention a pretty good Springfield team this weekend. If this team runs the table there is a strong possibility they would arguably be the best team from the east IDHO. Although dlip does not see the Gulls defeating Wesley, at Wesley. If they do lose to Wesley this could still leave that #1 spot for Kean, Montclair, or Del Val depending on their respective records. Del val seems to be coming on and even though dlip has not yet seen them play he puts some stock in wesleydad's seemingly objective posts.