East Region Fan Poll

[maxpower]

Bombers, you're right. Nothing to talk about until December at the earliest. Pep hereby disconnects his keyboard........On Saxon Warriors!

I think you mean:

On Saxo------------------

[SJFF82]

On the AFCA/D3football.com Top 25 question, I posted this last week on the CCIW board:

I think if you look at the ranked teams that get upset each week, invariably they were ranked higher in the coaches' poll than they were in our poll.

Good example from this past week: Our poll had Wartburg at No. 22 going into last week's game, and Dubuque unranked, with the game at Dubuque. The AFCA had Dubuque ranked No. 20 and Wartburg ranked No. 21. The AFCA poll said Dubuque should win that game, the higher ranked team playing at home. Wartburg won, however.

The AFCA poll loves unbeaten teams more than teams with losses. Here's another example, and you tell me which poll was more accurate:

No. 7 Montclair State 34, No. 24 Cortland State 33 (game at Montclair)
No. 11 Montclair State 34, No. 15 Cortland State 33
The second one is our poll.

Wittenberg, which lost at Huntingdon this past week, was ranked 11th in their poll, 14th in ours. Two weeks ago Trine lost, ranked No. 12 in their poll, No. 17 in ours.

Earlier in the season:

Cal Lutheran 28, No. 18 Redlands 24 (at Cal Lutheran)
No. 20 Cal Lutheran 28, No. 13 Redlands 24

Ours is the second one. Obviously we didn't nail this result but we were a lot closer than they were.

Just some food for thought. Neither poll is perfect but we have a very good track record.

PC, while I certainly understand your over all point, I disagree with the premise here.   

As for the Cortland v. Montclair game:  both polls (according to your premise) peredicted the winner correct.  You appear to be claiming that d3poll picked it 'MORE' correctly I guess because it was a close game and AFCA poll had the teams farther apart suggesting that the teams are closer in strength than AFCA thought?  Man, that ignores so many other factors....like could the game have easily been a 8 point game because someone took a knee at the end, like, what about the strength of all the teams in between Cort. and Montclair in the AFCA poll.  Can you really parse this out with this example where both polls based upon repective poll position predicted the winner.  And is the wekly poll even a prediction of what team would win any given matchup or is it a weekly recap/assessment of the prior game results? 

If the poll is a prediction of who is going to win a given match-up, then how does the poll account for the classic scenario where A beats B, B beats C, but then C beats A?

you also cite Trine losing as an example, but because D3 had them lower in the poll, said loss vindicates your poll more.  But arent both polls wrong when a ranked team loses to an unranked team....and really what is the difference between 12 and 17 in the poll?  Now Trine is below Adrian (the team they lost to in the poll)

I guess my overriding point is that it is fine to pick out a couple vindicating games for your poll, but to more or less make it appear that the poll is somehow a predictor of who is going to win is an impossibility to defend.  As the point has been made here of late....then just set a top 25 week 1 and hold 'pat' (pun intended) until season is over.  The fact that teams change pole position weekly is proof that predictions go poof.

[Pat Coleman]

The question was which poll is better, not which poll is perfect. No poll is perfect.

[SJFF82]

The question was which poll is better, not which poll is perfect. No poll is perfect.

oh....well someone already answered that...the one that has their team ranked higher!

[softballrz]

I guess the "squeky wheel gets the grease".  Good read in today's Boston Globe about the Endicott Gulls.  Sorry can't link it the globe is a "pay to read page".  Yesterday a few of you were asking for stats, here you are.  Like all other stats they mean little. Each team needs to win the game on the field.

The Team is:
1)  Ranked 5thth in the "NATION" in Total Defense
2)  Ranked 10th in the "NATION" in Total Offense
3)   Ranked 10th in the "NATION" in Turnover margin (+12)
4)  Ranked 2nd in the "NATION" in Scoring Offense (Total Pts)
5)  Ranked 4th in "NATION" in Rushing Defense
6)  Ranked 6th in "NATION" in total First downs (Offense)
7)  Ranked 6th in "NATION" in 3rd down Def
8)  Ranked 5th in "NATION" in First Downs allowed
9)  Ranked 13th in "NATION" in sacks allowed Individuals:
10)   Endicott Has 5th ranked QB (QB rating) in "NATION"
11)   Endicott Has 2nd ranked RB (Total Yds) in "NATION"
12)   Endicott DB is leading "NATION" in total INT's
13)   Endicott Has 2nd ranked K (Total FG's) in the "NATION"

NCAA link (see National Rankings) http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/mainpage.jsp?year=2011

[rams1102]

On the AFCA/D3football.com Top 25 question, I posted this last week on the CCIW board:

I think if you look at the ranked teams that get upset each week, invariably they were ranked higher in the coaches' poll than they were in our poll.

Good example from this past week: Our poll had Wartburg at No. 22 going into last week's game, and Dubuque unranked, with the game at Dubuque. The AFCA had Dubuque ranked No. 20 and Wartburg ranked No. 21. The AFCA poll said Dubuque should win that game, the higher ranked team playing at home. Wartburg won, however.

The AFCA poll loves unbeaten teams more than teams with losses. Here's another example, and you tell me which poll was more accurate:

No. 7 Montclair State 34, No. 24 Cortland State 33 (game at Montclair)
No. 11 Montclair State 34, No. 15 Cortland State 33
The second one is our poll.

Wittenberg, which lost at Huntingdon this past week, was ranked 11th in their poll, 14th in ours. Two weeks ago Trine lost, ranked No. 12 in their poll, No. 17 in ours.

Earlier in the season:

Cal Lutheran 28, No. 18 Redlands 24 (at Cal Lutheran)
No. 20 Cal Lutheran 28, No. 13 Redlands 24

Ours is the second one. Obviously we didn't nail this result but we were a lot closer than they were.

Just some food for thought. Neither poll is perfect but we have a very good track record.

In reference to Montclair, I do not believe that they are a top (10) team yet. You know I am a big Montclair homer. We will know more after Rowan and Kean. TCNJ in Ewing is no walk in the park this Sat. The Cortland game was a big one especially with Fisher going down at the end of the 1st half. If we go undefeated we should be a Top 10 Team and hopefully a #1 seed in the East. Time will tell, a lot of football to still play.

[Frank Rossi]

I guess the "squeky wheel gets the grease".  Good read in today's Boston Globe about the Endicott Gulls.  Sorry can't link it the globe is a "pay to read page".  Yesterday a few of you were asking for stats, here you are.  Like all other stats they mean little. Each team needs to win the game on the field.

The Team is:
1)  Ranked 5thth in the "NATION" in Total Defense
2)  Ranked 10th in the "NATION" in Total Offense
3)   Ranked 10th in the "NATION" in Turnover margin (+12)
4)  Ranked 2nd in the "NATION" in Scoring Offense (Total Pts)
5)  Ranked 4th in "NATION" in Rushing Defense
6)  Ranked 6th in "NATION" in total First downs (Offense)
7)  Ranked 6th in "NATION" in 3rd down Def
8)  Ranked 5th in "NATION" in First Downs allowed
9)  Ranked 13th in "NATION" in sacks allowed Individuals:
10)   Endicott Has 5th ranked QB (QB rating) in "NATION"
11)   Endicott Has 2nd ranked RB (Total Yds) in "NATION"
12)   Endicott DB is leading "NATION" in total INT's
13)   Endicott Has 2nd ranked K (Total FG's) in the "NATION"

NCAA link (see National Rankings) http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/mainpage.jsp?year=2011

Salve had the best defense of a team that didn't get into the postseason last year in the NCAA.  This year, some would argue their defense is as good as last year's.  Salve beat obviously a still rebounding Union team on a late 49yd FG and lost to Montclair.  Your stats are only as good as who you play.

[Knightstalker]

I guess the "squeky wheel gets the grease".  Good read in today's Boston Globe about the Endicott Gulls.  Sorry can't link it the globe is a "pay to read page".  Yesterday a few of you were asking for stats, here you are.  Like all other stats they mean little. Each team needs to win the game on the field.

The Team is:
1)  Ranked 5thth in the "NATION" in Total Defense
2)  Ranked 10th in the "NATION" in Total Offense
3)   Ranked 10th in the "NATION" in Turnover margin (+12)
4)  Ranked 2nd in the "NATION" in Scoring Offense (Total Pts)
5)  Ranked 4th in "NATION" in Rushing Defense
6)  Ranked 6th in "NATION" in total First downs (Offense)
7)  Ranked 6th in "NATION" in 3rd down Def
8)  Ranked 5th in "NATION" in First Downs allowed
9)  Ranked 13th in "NATION" in sacks allowed Individuals:
10)   Endicott Has 5th ranked QB (QB rating) in "NATION"
11)   Endicott Has 2nd ranked RB (Total Yds) in "NATION"
12)   Endicott DB is leading "NATION" in total INT's
13)   Endicott Has 2nd ranked K (Total FG's) in the "NATION"

NCAA link (see National Rankings) http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/mainpage.jsp?year=2011

A few years ago TCNJ was the top ranked defense in the NATION, you can look up what happened when they got to Mt Union.  National rankings need to be taken with a grain of salt.  Endicott is ranked high based on a great record in weak conference, stopping the running game of WNEC is different than stopping Mt Union or UWW' running attack.

[softballrz]

You are correct.  All just stats.  However, a team can only play the schedule and should never have to justify or be ridiculed for it.

[Upstate]

I guess the "squeky wheel gets the grease".  Good read in today's Boston Globe about the Endicott Gulls.  Sorry can't link it the globe is a "pay to read page".  Yesterday a few of you were asking for stats, here you are.  Like all other stats they mean little. Each team needs to win the game on the field.

The Team is:
1)  Ranked 5thth in the "NATION" in Total Defense
2)  Ranked 10th in the "NATION" in Total Offense
3)   Ranked 10th in the "NATION" in Turnover margin (+12)
4)  Ranked 2nd in the "NATION" in Scoring Offense (Total Pts)
5)  Ranked 4th in "NATION" in Rushing Defense
6)  Ranked 6th in "NATION" in total First downs (Offense)
7)  Ranked 6th in "NATION" in 3rd down Def
8)  Ranked 5th in "NATION" in First Downs allowed
9)  Ranked 13th in "NATION" in sacks allowed Individuals:
10)   Endicott Has 5th ranked QB (QB rating) in "NATION"
11)   Endicott Has 2nd ranked RB (Total Yds) in "NATION"
12)   Endicott DB is leading "NATION" in total INT's
13)   Endicott Has 2nd ranked K (Total FG's) in the "NATION"

NCAA link (see National Rankings) http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/mainpage.jsp?year=2011

Let us know when they stop playing cream puffs...

Then maybe the stats will bear some meaning...

[lewdogg11]

I guess the "squeky wheel gets the grease".  Good read in today's Boston Globe about the Endicott Gulls.  Sorry can't link it the globe is a "pay to read page".  Yesterday a few of you were asking for stats, here you are.  Like all other stats they mean little. Each team needs to win the game on the field.

The Team is:
1)  Ranked 5thth in the "NATION" in Total Defense
2)  Ranked 10th in the "NATION" in Total Offense
3)   Ranked 10th in the "NATION" in Turnover margin (+12)
4)  Ranked 2nd in the "NATION" in Scoring Offense (Total Pts)
5)  Ranked 4th in "NATION" in Rushing Defense
6)  Ranked 6th in "NATION" in total First downs (Offense)
7)  Ranked 6th in "NATION" in 3rd down Def
8)  Ranked 5th in "NATION" in First Downs allowed
9)  Ranked 13th in "NATION" in sacks allowed Individuals:
10)   Endicott Has 5th ranked QB (QB rating) in "NATION"
11)   Endicott Has 2nd ranked RB (Total Yds) in "NATION"
12)   Endicott DB is leading "NATION" in total INT's
13)   Endicott Has 2nd ranked K (Total FG's) in the "NATION"

NCAA link (see National Rankings) http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/mainpage.jsp?year=2011

A few years ago TCNJ was the top ranked defense in the NATION, you can look up what happened when they got to Mt Union.  National rankings need to be taken with a grain of salt.  Endicott is ranked high based on a great record in weak conference, stopping the running game of WNEC is different than stopping Mt Union or UWW' running attack.

first of all "Knightstalker", I'm willing to bet that the NEFC has a team in Salem before any NJAC team returns.


and second, dude, you're way out of line dissing student athletes, that's just wrong and not very nice. They all work extremely hard from the 0-7 teams to the 7-0 teams.


saying kids suck is wrong, please refrain from calling our student athletes, perhaps on this board you may think that you're something special but to call out student athletes is rude  and wrong.

[Bombers798891]

You are correct.  All just stats.  However, a team can only play the schedule and should never have to justify or be ridiculed for it.

I disagree on the second part. The concept of quality of opponent has merit. It's not Endicott's fault that the NEFC is, historically, a weaker conference. But that rightfully opens the question of how good the team actually is.

Norwich is a perfect example. They were 1-23 in the Empire 8 from 2005 to 2008 and went an overall 9-31 in that stretch. They switch to the ECFC in 2009, and go 8-3, overall, 6-0 in conference. Were they magically better that season, or was it that instead of losing to Ithaca, Springfield, Fisher, and Alfred each year, that they got to play teams like:

Anna Maria-- In their first season in DIII, 0-25 since joining in 2009
Becker-- 4-35 in DIII at the time they played Norwich 7-55 overall since joining in 2005
SUNY Maritime-- 13-21 in DIII at the time they played Norwich, 
Castleton State-- Like Anna Maria, in it's first season in DIII in 2009

It's a pretty easy question. Norwich didn't drastically improve. They went from playing traditional East powers to playing mostly teams that had zero historical success--and many that didn't have a history period. Obviously, they looked better. The record was shiny, the stats improved. But that had as much to do with the opponents they played than anything else.

Endicott's not in the same boat obviously, but this just goes to show that a weak/strong schedule can legitimately raise concerns.

[maxpower]

You are correct.  All just stats.  However, a team can only play the schedule and should never have to justify or be ridiculed for it.

No, their egos should be stroked to the point of setting them up for massive disappointment when they play a real team.

[rams1102]

I guess the "squeky wheel gets the grease".  Good read in today's Boston Globe about the Endicott Gulls.  Sorry can't link it the globe is a "pay to read page".  Yesterday a few of you were asking for stats, here you are.  Like all other stats they mean little. Each team needs to win the game on the field.

The Team is:
1)  Ranked 5thth in the "NATION" in Total Defense
2)  Ranked 10th in the "NATION" in Total Offense
3)   Ranked 10th in the "NATION" in Turnover margin (+12)
4)  Ranked 2nd in the "NATION" in Scoring Offense (Total Pts)
5)  Ranked 4th in "NATION" in Rushing Defense
6)  Ranked 6th in "NATION" in total First downs (Offense)
7)  Ranked 6th in "NATION" in 3rd down Def
8)  Ranked 5th in "NATION" in First Downs allowed
9)  Ranked 13th in "NATION" in sacks allowed Individuals:
10)   Endicott Has 5th ranked QB (QB rating) in "NATION"
11)   Endicott Has 2nd ranked RB (Total Yds) in "NATION"
12)   Endicott DB is leading "NATION" in total INT's
13)   Endicott Has 2nd ranked K (Total FG's) in the "NATION"

NCAA link (see National Rankings) http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/mainpage.jsp?year=2011

A few years ago TCNJ was the top ranked defense in the NATION, you can look up what happened when they got to Mt Union.  National rankings need to be taken with a grain of salt.  Endicott is ranked high based on a great record in weak conference, stopping the running game of WNEC is different than stopping Mt Union or UWW' running attack.

first of all "Knightstalker", I'm willing to bet that the NEFC has a team in Salem before any NJAC team returns.


and second, dude, you're way out of line dissing student athletes, that's just wrong and not very nice. They all work extremely hard from the 0-7 teams to the 7-0 teams.


saying kids suck is wrong, please refrain from calling our student athletes, perhaps on this board you may think that you're something special but to call out student athletes is rude  and wrong.

I don't think Stalker would make those statements.

[Pat Coleman]

LewDogg is mocking a previous poster's post along the same lines, rams.