East Region Fan Poll

[Frank Rossi]

Gordon, the other part of the argument is playoff access, including access to a number of games to help allow teams to improve over time.

Guaranteed access is only guaranteed to one game in a single-elimination tournament. There is no entitlement to a specific number of games. Your "number" in football is one. That's it.

I said part of people's argument, not part of the NCAA rulebook.  You and Keith are always the first to cite the idea of additional games equalling additional experience, exposure, recruiting strength, and the such in the case of UMU and UWW.  I'm pointing to exactly what that effect means when we look at it relatively to the other 227 playoff-eligible teams.

[Pat Coleman]

That may be part of the argument but it doesn't make it valid. You earn your way into the next round. Mount Union can only knock out one team per week.

[lewdogg11]

So what should happen, LD, if DelVal, Hobart and Endicott run the table, LD?

Delaware Valley is the only team that should be considered a possible 1 seed of those 3.  Hobart has an 8 game schedule which in my mind eliminates them from any discussions of a 1 seed.  Endicott is in the NEFC and should be seeded at 4-5 if they win out.  Delaware Valley is currently at 12 in the Nation and has 2 very tough games remaining.  They could easily be a potential one seed, but even if they win out, I could see them as a 2 seed to Mount Union because Nationally they might be 6 or 7 at the highest.

[Frank Rossi]

That may be part of the argument but it doesn't make it valid. You earn your way into the next round. Mount Union can only knock out one team per week.

If Mount Union always knocks out all East Region teams by Week 3 of the playoffs, that nets the East a deficiency of 4 weeks of experience over four years, and potentially eight, depending on how you view the learning curve associated with playing UMU as an opponent.  No East team since 2007 can even tout making it to the Semifinals.  It becomes a pretty ugly cycle, doesn't it?

[Pat Coleman]

No worse than the North had for a decade before that. There is no reason to protect the East if they are within 500 miles.

[Frank Rossi]

No worse than the North had for a decade before that. There is no reason to protect the East if they are within 500 miles.

But protect the South or West because they're not?  Smells like a regional argument in a national context.

[lewdogg11]

No worse than the North had for a decade before that. There is no reason to protect the East if they are within 500 miles.

Beat me to it. How many OAC teams have gotten screwed because of Mount Union in the last 10-12 years?

[Pat Coleman]

No worse than the North had for a decade before that. There is no reason to protect the East if they are within 500 miles.

But protect the South or West because they're not?  Smells like a regional argument in a national context.

Irrelevant with the 500-mile radius on the books.

[Frank Rossi]

No worse than the North had for a decade before that. There is no reason to protect the East if they are within 500 miles.

Beat me to it. How many OAC teams have gotten screwed because of Mount Union in the last 10-12 years?

If an OAC team won every game aside from UMU, they would win a Pool C bid almost without exception.  That's also those teams' choice to have UMU in their conference.  Ask Wesley what similar but not quite the same success has done to their attempts to join a Pool A conference over time.

[Frank Rossi]

No worse than the North had for a decade before that. There is no reason to protect the East if they are within 500 miles.

But protect the South or West because they're not?  Smells like a regional argument in a national context.

Irrelevant with the 500-mile radius on the books.

Circular reasoning in a discussion of what is right or wrong conceptually.  Remember, there's no rule concerning UMU and UWW being played in the Finals.  It could just as easily happen in the Semifinals.  Yet, they refuse to bracket it that way.  I'm suggesting ways to improve what is and isn't on the books.

[lewdogg11]

No worse than the North had for a decade before that. There is no reason to protect the East if they are within 500 miles.

Beat me to it. How many OAC teams have gotten screwed because of Mount Union in the last 10-12 years?

If an OAC team won every game aside from UMU, they would win a Pool C bid almost without exception.  That's also those teams' choice to have UMU in their conference.  Ask Wesley what similar but not quite the same success has done to their attempts to join a Pool A conference over time.

Yeah but each OAC team basically starts the year with 1 loss. So if they lose to a similar team, they are done.  Ultimately similar to going undefeated in the East. Except they are hoping for just a bid rather than hopes of a 1 seed.

[Frank Rossi]

No worse than the North had for a decade before that. There is no reason to protect the East if they are within 500 miles.

Beat me to it. How many OAC teams have gotten screwed because of Mount Union in the last 10-12 years?

If an OAC team won every game aside from UMU, they would win a Pool C bid almost without exception.  That's also those teams' choice to have UMU in their conference.  Ask Wesley what similar but not quite the same success has done to their attempts to join a Pool A conference over time.

Yeah but each OAC team basically starts the year with 1 loss. So if they lose to a similar team, they are done.  Ultimately similar to going undefeated in the East. Except they are hoping for just a bid rather than hopes of a 1 seed.

Which would you rather be?  A 4- or 5-seed in a bracket without UMU or a 2- or 3-seed in a bracket with UMU?

[EDIT: The OAC has had a second team in the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years (since Capital's run in 2006).  The teams have gone a collective 1-3 in those years.]

[AUKaz00]

Pool B would re-enlarge with six E8 teams to an additional bid.  Kaz, do the math.  There are six autobid conferences in the East Region.  If the entire Region could account for just one or two Pool C bids, then there wouldn't be a need for a double-shift.  Now, with Salisbury dominating, it's as if the East only has five Pool A bids -- plus Salisbury.  The inclusion of Salisbury has rocked the entire bracketology of the East in a way that gives the East one less team, most likely, in the mix.  As Coach Greene said on ITH a few weeks back, watch what you wish for sometimes.  Yes, you have an autobid -- at what price?

I presumed there would be an additional Pool B, but wasn't certain.  As it stands now, if the E8 were Pool B eligible, the winner of Fisher/Utica would be competing with Salisbury, Wesley and Case for the two Pool B spots.  If they didn't get one of those bids then they'd be in the Pool C line with every other 1-loss team.  So, no guarantees that we'd get an extra East team in.  So, we wouldn't have an autobid, but at what cost?

[Frank Rossi]

Pool B would re-enlarge with six E8 teams to an additional bid.  Kaz, do the math.  There are six autobid conferences in the East Region.  If the entire Region could account for just one or two Pool C bids, then there wouldn't be a need for a double-shift.  Now, with Salisbury dominating, it's as if the East only has five Pool A bids -- plus Salisbury.  The inclusion of Salisbury has rocked the entire bracketology of the East in a way that gives the East one less team, most likely, in the mix.  As Coach Greene said on ITH a few weeks back, watch what you wish for sometimes.  Yes, you have an autobid -- at what price?

I presumed there would be an additional Pool B, but wasn't certain.  As it stands now, if the E8 were Pool B eligible, the winner of Fisher/Utica would be competing with Salisbury, Wesley and Case for the two Pool B spots.  If they didn't get one of those bids then they'd be in the Pool C line with every other 1-loss team.  So, no guarantees that we'd get an extra East team in.  So, we wouldn't have an autobid, but at what cost?

Two problems.  First, Salisbury wasn't required for the autobid.  You were just one team short.  You're likely losing Springfield because of the geography of this, so there's already a cost in the offing.  Second, if the E8 fielded 6, SJF and Utica would be undefeated currently, would they not?  Of course, that assumes they would've won the OOC game in place of those two teams, but at undefeated or one loss, the E8 would've received a bid (Case and Wesley both are at one loss and Case isn't a tremendous power right now).  This move may have caused irreparable damage to the football E8 component in the longrun and damage to the whole East Region in the quasi-longrun.  You were the one that laughed at the Boise State inclusion into the Big East a couple weeks ago.  Remember the 5-time-zone WAC?  And those were Div. 1 conferences.  The effects of these things magnify in D3.  Ask Brockport how that whole ACFC experiment went for them...

[Ralph Turner]

Pool B would re-enlarge with six E8 teams to an additional bid.  Kaz, do the math.  There are six autobid conferences in the East Region.  If the entire Region could account for just one or two Pool C bids, then there wouldn't be a need for a double-shift.  Now, with Salisbury dominating, it's as if the East only has five Pool A bids -- plus Salisbury.  The inclusion of Salisbury has rocked the entire bracketology of the East in a way that gives the East one less team, most likely, in the mix.  As Coach Greene said on ITH a few weeks back, watch what you wish for sometimes.  Yes, you have an autobid -- at what price?

I presumed there would be an additional Pool B, but wasn't certain.  As it stands now, if the E8 were Pool B eligible, the winner of Fisher/Utica would be competing with Salisbury, Wesley and Case for the two Pool B spots.  If they didn't get one of those bids then they'd be in the Pool C line with every other 1-loss team.  So, no guarantees that we'd get an extra East team in.  So, we wouldn't have an autobid, but at what cost?

Two problems.  First, Salisbury wasn't required for the autobid.  You were just one team short.  You're likely losing Springfield because of the geography of this, so there's already a cost in the offing.  Second, if the E8 fielded 6, SJF and Utica would be undefeated currently, would they not?  Of course, that assumes they would've won the OOC game in place of those two teams, but at undefeated or one loss, the E8 would've received a bid (Case and Wesley both are at one loss and Case isn't a tremendous power right now).  This move may have caused irreparable damage to the football E8 component in the longrun and damage to the whole East Region in the quasi-longrun.  You were the one that laughed at the Boise State inclusion into the Big East a couple weeks ago.  Remember the 5-time-zone WAC?  And those were Div. 1 conferences.  The effects of these things magnify in D3.  Ask Brockport how that whole ACFC experiment went for them...

I read the post with interest.

What are the damages that you have considered that arise from the invitation to Frostburg State and Salisbury?

Thanks.