East Region Fan Poll

[fisheralum91]

I think that it is highly doubtful that the E8 will get 2 bids....

[Frank Rossi]

I think that it is highly doubtful that the E8 will get 2 bids....

Right now, 13 conferences are in line to potentially have 1-loss runners-up.  Likely, the six Pool C bids will belong to six of those conferences.  That said, the 13 could be trimmed by upsets or just scenarios not panning out over the next two weeks.  That, to me, is the only way we see an E8 team as a Pool C entry.

[lewdogg11]

Ok, well I was rethinking the playoff scenarios, and I now think that there is a good chance that we see Mount Union AND Salisbury(if they beat Fisher) in the 'East' bracket.  We're running low on numbers it seems.  I could even see a 3rd import out of necessity.  Here is how I see it at this point:

If Delaware Valley wins out
1.  Mount Union
2.  Delaware Valley
3.  Hobart
4.  Johns Hopkins
5.  Salisbury/St. John Fisher
6.  Kean/Montclair St.
7.  WNEC/Framingham St.
8.  SUNY Maritime

If Delaware Valley loses 1:
1.  Mount Union
2.  Hobart
3.  Salisbury/St. John Fisher
4.  Kean/Montclair St.
5.  Widener/Lycoming
6.  Delaware Valley
7.  WNEC/Framingham St.
8.  SUNY-Maritime

[pumkinattack]

If MTUnion comes East, so be it.  I'm not delusional, but excited to have another chance at them (this team doesn't have the same core on Defense with Hager, Sanders, Aruck, but a infinitely better offense).  That being said, with DelVal having Widener and Lyco to finish their season, their metrics may be good enough to warrant a #1 seed.  10-0, wins over 1 or more RRO, etc.  I don't know if they're on the level of the top 4 teams in the nation and really neither does anyone else (perhaps someone from D3 has seen them, but seeing one game can be deceiving in both directions), but given that inability to compare, it would seem reasonable for them to be a #1.  If you want to go by D3football ranings, they'll probably be top 10 if they win out, which gives them enough credibility. 

Who knows.  You could also be right.  I just want Hobart to crush the next two R's, RPI & UofR, the next two weeks and remain healthy.  Very worried about RPI next week and thinking of 2001 and 2003 when RPI was undefeated.  In 01' Bart couldn't pull it out, but in 2003 they did and those were the only two non-playoff Bart teams until 2009.

[lewdogg11]

If MTUnion comes East, so be it.  I'm not delusional, but excited to have another chance at them (this team doesn't have the same core on Defense with Hager, Sanders, Aruck, but a infinitely better offense).  That being said, with DelVal having Widener and Lyco to finish their season, their metrics may be good enough to warrant a #1 seed.  10-0, wins over 1 or more RRO, etc.  I don't know if they're on the level of the top 4 teams in the nation and really neither does anyone else (perhaps someone from D3 has seen them, but seeing one game can be deceiving in both directions), but given that inability to compare, it would seem reasonable for them to be a #1.  If you want to go by D3football ranings, they'll probably be top 10 if they win out, which gives them enough credibility. 

Who knows.  You could also be right.  I just want Hobart to crush the next two R's, RPI & UofR, the next two weeks and remain healthy.  Very worried about RPI next week and thinking of 2001 and 2003 when RPI was undefeated.  In 01' Bart couldn't pull it out, but in 2003 they did and those were the only two non-playoff Bart teams until 2009.

I hear ya with Delaware Valley, but the problem is, if they win out, they knock off Lyco and Widener, who both have a loss already effectively removing them from the discussion.  I think it's a numbers game at this point and Mount Union has to come here due toa lack of playoff qualifying teams. 

If Salisbury beats Fisher, having them play Hopkins in the first round makes a ton of geographical sense.  If Salisbury loses to Fisher, Hopkins could still be possible vs. Montclair or Kean.  They weren't afraid to send Montclair south last year, so I could see it happen again but in this bracket.

[SJFF82]

If MTUnion comes East, so be it.  I'm not delusional, but excited to have another chance at them (this team doesn't have the same core on Defense with Hager, Sanders, Aruck, but a infinitely better offense).  That being said, with DelVal having Widener and Lyco to finish their season, their metrics may be good enough to warrant a #1 seed.  10-0, wins over 1 or more RRO, etc.  I don't know if they're on the level of the top 4 teams in the nation and really neither does anyone else (perhaps someone from D3 has seen them, but seeing one game can be deceiving in both directions), but given that inability to compare, it would seem reasonable for them to be a #1.  If you want to go by D3football ranings, they'll probably be top 10 if they win out, which gives them enough credibility. 

Who knows.  You could also be right.  I just want Hobart to crush the next two R's, RPI & UofR, the next two weeks and remain healthy.  Very worried about RPI next week and thinking of 2001 and 2003 when RPI was undefeated.  In 01' Bart couldn't pull it out, but in 2003 they did and those were the only two non-playoff Bart teams until 2009.

A 10-0 DVC team should be #1....period.  I know they may not be, but they should.  And that is regardless of how the rest of the East shakes out.  It makes no sense to me the argument about the "Top 4" in the Country.  That is a false premise to move MUC East every year.  There is no Top 4, there is MUC and UWW, and then everyone else. 

As I do every year at this time, I ask why have Regional Rankings if a DVCesque 10-0 team doesnt get the benefit of running the table in its region.  Why does the East get punished just because the West has so many potential #1's.  When is the last time (and I know somebody will find out  ) a North team faired much better against MUC in the National Semis than the EAST team did in the East Regional Finals against them? 

The proponents of the so called Top 4 have claimed that what is the difference between losing to MUC in the final 8 or final 4; and that the tournament is about finding a champion, not to worry about how far any other team advances.  Ok, then why do we care if a 10-0 West team is a two seed in the West?  Whoever that team is, they aren't beating MUC any sooner than Hobart is!!!

Quick quiz.....name me the team that is winning the title this year....times up....its either MUC or UWW.  So screw the WEST  teams that 'deserve' a number 1....no they dont, unless they are better than the team ahead of them that gets the #1.

[lewdogg11]

If MTUnion comes East, so be it.  I'm not delusional, but excited to have another chance at them (this team doesn't have the same core on Defense with Hager, Sanders, Aruck, but a infinitely better offense).  That being said, with DelVal having Widener and Lyco to finish their season, their metrics may be good enough to warrant a #1 seed.  10-0, wins over 1 or more RRO, etc.  I don't know if they're on the level of the top 4 teams in the nation and really neither does anyone else (perhaps someone from D3 has seen them, but seeing one game can be deceiving in both directions), but given that inability to compare, it would seem reasonable for them to be a #1.  If you want to go by D3football ranings, they'll probably be top 10 if they win out, which gives them enough credibility. 

Who knows.  You could also be right.  I just want Hobart to crush the next two R's, RPI & UofR, the next two weeks and remain healthy.  Very worried about RPI next week and thinking of 2001 and 2003 when RPI was undefeated.  In 01' Bart couldn't pull it out, but in 2003 they did and those were the only two non-playoff Bart teams until 2009.

A 10-0 DVC team should be #1....period.  I know they may not be, but they should.  And that is regardless of how the rest of the East shakes out.  It makes no sense to me the argument about the "Top 4" in the Country.  That is a false premise to move MUC East every year.  There is no Top 4, there is MUC and UWW, and then everyone else. 

As I do every year at this time, I ask why have Regional Rankings if a DVCesque 10-0 team doesnt get the benefit of running the table in its region.  Why does the East get punished just because the West has so many potential #1's.  When is the last time (and I know somebody will find out  ) a North team faired much better against MUC in the National Semis than the EAST team did in the East Regional Finals against them? 

The proponents of the so called Top 4 have claimed that what is the difference between losing to MUC in the final 8 or final 4; and that the tournament is about finding a champion, not to worry about how far any other team advances.  Ok, then why do we care if a 10-0 West team is a two seed in the West?  Whoever that team is, they aren't beating MUC any sooner than Hobart is!!!

Quick quiz.....name me the team that is winning the title this year....times up....its either MUC or UWW.  So screw the WEST  teams that 'deserve' a number 1....no they dont, unless they are better than the team ahead of them that gets the #1.

Ok, so they put DVC at 1 and keep Mt. Union out.  They are still going to have to ship in 2-3 teams to fill out this bracket.  If they move in Wesley with a 4-5 seed, they probably take the bracket.  Same end result. 

[gordonmann]

I don't know if they're on the level of the top 4 teams in the nation and really neither does anyone else (perhaps someone from D3 has seen them, but seeing one game can be deceiving in both directions), but given that inability to compare, it would seem reasonable for them to be a #1.  If you want to go by D3football ranings, they'll probably be top 10 if they win out, which gives them enough credibility. 

I've seen every game Del Val has played for the last 8 years. I don't have them ranked in the Top 5 on my ballot.  The defense is very good. The offense is very young.  I think last year's Aggie team (offense + defense) is better than this year's overall.

That said, I don't have a problem with them being No. 1 in the bracket if they win out.  Or being No. 2 if they win out.  But they have to win out first, which will be very, very difficult.

Incidentally doesn't the highest ranked East team usually lose in the NCAA playoffs before playing Mount Union anyway?

[SJFF82]

If MTUnion comes East, so be it.  I'm not delusional, but excited to have another chance at them (this team doesn't have the same core on Defense with Hager, Sanders, Aruck, but a infinitely better offense).  That being said, with DelVal having Widener and Lyco to finish their season, their metrics may be good enough to warrant a #1 seed.  10-0, wins over 1 or more RRO, etc.  I don't know if they're on the level of the top 4 teams in the nation and really neither does anyone else (perhaps someone from D3 has seen them, but seeing one game can be deceiving in both directions), but given that inability to compare, it would seem reasonable for them to be a #1.  If you want to go by D3football ranings, they'll probably be top 10 if they win out, which gives them enough credibility. 

Who knows.  You could also be right.  I just want Hobart to crush the next two R's, RPI & UofR, the next two weeks and remain healthy.  Very worried about RPI next week and thinking of 2001 and 2003 when RPI was undefeated.  In 01' Bart couldn't pull it out, but in 2003 they did and those were the only two non-playoff Bart teams until 2009.

A 10-0 DVC team should be #1....period.  I know they may not be, but they should.  And that is regardless of how the rest of the East shakes out.  It makes no sense to me the argument about the "Top 4" in the Country.  That is a false premise to move MUC East every year.  There is no Top 4, there is MUC and UWW, and then everyone else. 

As I do every year at this time, I ask why have Regional Rankings if a DVCesque 10-0 team doesnt get the benefit of running the table in its region.  Why does the East get punished just because the West has so many potential #1's.  When is the last time (and I know somebody will find out  ) a North team faired much better against MUC in the National Semis than the EAST team did in the East Regional Finals against them? 

The proponents of the so called Top 4 have claimed that what is the difference between losing to MUC in the final 8 or final 4; and that the tournament is about finding a champion, not to worry about how far any other team advances.  Ok, then why do we care if a 10-0 West team is a two seed in the West?  Whoever that team is, they aren't beating MUC any sooner than Hobart is!!!

Quick quiz.....name me the team that is winning the title this year....times up....its either MUC or UWW.  So screw the WEST  teams that 'deserve' a number 1....no they dont, unless they are better than the team ahead of them that gets the #1.

Ok, so they put DVC at 1 and keep Mt. Union out.  They are still going to have to ship in 2-3 teams to fill out this bracket.  If they move in Wesley with a 4-5 seed, they probably take the bracket.  Same end result.

Wesley v. Hobart/Del Val/SJF/Sals   score Wesley 28-opponent 21

MUC v.  anyone not named UWW.....55-5

I'll take my chances against Wesley...and if the end result is the same, so be it, but that doesnt mean a 10-0 true East Region team shouldnt be #1

[lewdogg11]

If MTUnion comes East, so be it.  I'm not delusional, but excited to have another chance at them (this team doesn't have the same core on Defense with Hager, Sanders, Aruck, but a infinitely better offense).  That being said, with DelVal having Widener and Lyco to finish their season, their metrics may be good enough to warrant a #1 seed.  10-0, wins over 1 or more RRO, etc.  I don't know if they're on the level of the top 4 teams in the nation and really neither does anyone else (perhaps someone from D3 has seen them, but seeing one game can be deceiving in both directions), but given that inability to compare, it would seem reasonable for them to be a #1.  If you want to go by D3football ranings, they'll probably be top 10 if they win out, which gives them enough credibility. 

Who knows.  You could also be right.  I just want Hobart to crush the next two R's, RPI & UofR, the next two weeks and remain healthy.  Very worried about RPI next week and thinking of 2001 and 2003 when RPI was undefeated.  In 01' Bart couldn't pull it out, but in 2003 they did and those were the only two non-playoff Bart teams until 2009.

A 10-0 DVC team should be #1....period.  I know they may not be, but they should.  And that is regardless of how the rest of the East shakes out.  It makes no sense to me the argument about the "Top 4" in the Country.  That is a false premise to move MUC East every year.  There is no Top 4, there is MUC and UWW, and then everyone else. 

As I do every year at this time, I ask why have Regional Rankings if a DVCesque 10-0 team doesnt get the benefit of running the table in its region.  Why does the East get punished just because the West has so many potential #1's.  When is the last time (and I know somebody will find out  ) a North team faired much better against MUC in the National Semis than the EAST team did in the East Regional Finals against them? 

The proponents of the so called Top 4 have claimed that what is the difference between losing to MUC in the final 8 or final 4; and that the tournament is about finding a champion, not to worry about how far any other team advances.  Ok, then why do we care if a 10-0 West team is a two seed in the West?  Whoever that team is, they aren't beating MUC any sooner than Hobart is!!!

Quick quiz.....name me the team that is winning the title this year....times up....its either MUC or UWW.  So screw the WEST  teams that 'deserve' a number 1....no they dont, unless they are better than the team ahead of them that gets the #1.

Ok, so they put DVC at 1 and keep Mt. Union out.  They are still going to have to ship in 2-3 teams to fill out this bracket.  If they move in Wesley with a 4-5 seed, they probably take the bracket.  Same end result.

Wesley v. Hobart/Del Val/SJF/Sals   score Wesley 28-opponent 21

MUC v.  anyone not named UWW.....55-5

I'll take my chances against Wesley...and if the end result is the same, so be it, but that doesnt mean a 10-0 true East Region team shouldnt be #1

If they aren't Regional brackets it does.  There will probably be like 15 undefeated teams.  Not all of them can be 1 seeds.

[dlippiel]

If MTUnion comes East, so be it.  I'm not delusional, but excited to have another chance at them (this team doesn't have the same core on Defense with Hager, Sanders, Aruck, but a infinitely better offense).  That being said, with DelVal having Widener and Lyco to finish their season, their metrics may be good enough to warrant a #1 seed.  10-0, wins over 1 or more RRO, etc.  I don't know if they're on the level of the top 4 teams in the nation and really neither does anyone else (perhaps someone from D3 has seen them, but seeing one game can be deceiving in both directions), but given that inability to compare, it would seem reasonable for them to be a #1.  If you want to go by D3football ranings, they'll probably be top 10 if they win out, which gives them enough credibility. 

Who knows.  You could also be right.  I just want Hobart to crush the next two R's, RPI & UofR, the next two weeks and remain healthy.  Very worried about RPI next week and thinking of 2001 and 2003 when RPI was undefeated.  In 01' Bart couldn't pull it out, but in 2003 they did and those were the only two non-playoff Bart teams until 2009.

A 10-0 DVC team should be #1....period.  I know they may not be, but they should.  And that is regardless of how the rest of the East shakes out.  It makes no sense to me the argument about the "Top 4" in the Country.  That is a false premise to move MUC East every year.  There is no Top 4, there is MUC and UWW, and then everyone else. 

As I do every year at this time, I ask why have Regional Rankings if a DVCesque 10-0 team doesnt get the benefit of running the table in its region.  Why does the East get punished just because the West has so many potential #1's.  When is the last time (and I know somebody will find out  ) a North team faired much better against MUC in the National Semis than the EAST team did in the East Regional Finals against them? 

The proponents of the so called Top 4 have claimed that what is the difference between losing to MUC in the final 8 or final 4; and that the tournament is about finding a champion, not to worry about how far any other team advances.  Ok, then why do we care if a 10-0 West team is a two seed in the West?  Whoever that team is, they aren't beating MUC any sooner than Hobart is!!!

Quick quiz.....name me the team that is winning the title this year....times up....its either MUC or UWW.  So screw the WEST  teams that 'deserve' a number 1....no they dont, unless they are better than the team ahead of them that gets the #1.

A nice post here SJF and dlip is with you all the way. dlip honestly does not have a problem with MUC being placed atop the East Region Bracket, unless there is a 10-0 East team. Your points here are solid and if, if, Del Val runs the table, they deserve to be, in dlip's opinion, the #1 seed in the East Region Bracket.

...wait though (here comes a nice run on sentence with no commas) even though it's called the East Region Bracket it's not the East Region Bracket but its made up of teams mostly from the east hence the name East Region Bracket even though it is not literally the East Region bracket of the East Region of the East Region Bracket representing but not representing East Region teams...

[SUADC]

Ok, well I was rethinking the playoff scenarios, and I now think that there is a good chance that we see Mount Union AND Salisbury(if they beat Fisher) in the 'East' bracket.  We're running low on numbers it seems.  I could even see a 3rd import out of necessity.  Here is how I see it at this point:

If Delaware Valley wins out
1.  Mount Union
2.  Delaware Valley
3.  Hobart
4.  Johns Hopkins
5.  Salisbury/St. John Fisher
6.  Kean/Montclair St.
7.  WNEC/Framingham St.
8.  SUNY Maritime

If Delaware Valley loses 1:
1.  Mount Union
2.  Hobart
3.  Salisbury/St. John Fisher
4.  Kean/Montclair St.
5.  Widener/Lycoming
6.  Delaware Valley
7.  WNEC/Framingham St.
8.  SUNY-Maritime

I like how you set up your seeds, however I do not think that they'll put an undefeated John Hopkins in the East Bracket. I believe they'll throw a pool B team from the south, most likely Wesley. Moreover, if Salisbury beats St. John Fisher and becomes the E8 Champion then there is a chance that a John Hopkins may move into the bracket to prevent a rematch of Wesley and Salisbury.

[SJFF82]

If MTUnion comes East, so be it.  I'm not delusional, but excited to have another chance at them (this team doesn't have the same core on Defense with Hager, Sanders, Aruck, but a infinitely better offense).  That being said, with DelVal having Widener and Lyco to finish their season, their metrics may be good enough to warrant a #1 seed.  10-0, wins over 1 or more RRO, etc.  I don't know if they're on the level of the top 4 teams in the nation and really neither does anyone else (perhaps someone from D3 has seen them, but seeing one game can be deceiving in both directions), but given that inability to compare, it would seem reasonable for them to be a #1.  If you want to go by D3football ranings, they'll probably be top 10 if they win out, which gives them enough credibility. 

Who knows.  You could also be right.  I just want Hobart to crush the next two R's, RPI & UofR, the next two weeks and remain healthy.  Very worried about RPI next week and thinking of 2001 and 2003 when RPI was undefeated.  In 01' Bart couldn't pull it out, but in 2003 they did and those were the only two non-playoff Bart teams until 2009.

A 10-0 DVC team should be #1....period.  I know they may not be, but they should.  And that is regardless of how the rest of the East shakes out.  It makes no sense to me the argument about the "Top 4" in the Country.  That is a false premise to move MUC East every year.  There is no Top 4, there is MUC and UWW, and then everyone else. 

As I do every year at this time, I ask why have Regional Rankings if a DVCesque 10-0 team doesnt get the benefit of running the table in its region.  Why does the East get punished just because the West has so many potential #1's.  When is the last time (and I know somebody will find out  ) a North team faired much better against MUC in the National Semis than the EAST team did in the East Regional Finals against them? 

The proponents of the so called Top 4 have claimed that what is the difference between losing to MUC in the final 8 or final 4; and that the tournament is about finding a champion, not to worry about how far any other team advances.  Ok, then why do we care if a 10-0 West team is a two seed in the West?  Whoever that team is, they aren't beating MUC any sooner than Hobart is!!!

Quick quiz.....name me the team that is winning the title this year....times up....its either MUC or UWW.  So screw the WEST  teams that 'deserve' a number 1....no they dont, unless they are better than the team ahead of them that gets the #1.

Ok, so they put DVC at 1 and keep Mt. Union out.  They are still going to have to ship in 2-3 teams to fill out this bracket.  If they move in Wesley with a 4-5 seed, they probably take the bracket.  Same end result.

Wesley v. Hobart/Del Val/SJF/Sals   score Wesley 28-opponent 21

MUC v.  anyone not named UWW.....55-5

I'll take my chances against Wesley...and if the end result is the same, so be it, but that doesnt mean a 10-0 true East Region team shouldnt be #1

If they aren't Regional brackets it does.  There will probably be like 15 undefeated teams.  Not all of them can be 1 seeds.

Ok, but then its circular, because is it Regional or not?   I guess its not in reality, but then there is the 500 mile rule, which makes it a 500mile Region...


....but why do we get bombarded with Regional rankings...and why does that matter for selection criteria....if an East team plays Wesley or MUC in the Reg season, they gain no benefit or detriment, win or lose, in the objective numbers crunching, yet come seeding time, we are supposed to accept that there are no regions  (dlip....that is run on WITH commas)

[Bombers798891]

I don't know if they're on the level of the top 4 teams in the nation and really neither does anyone else (perhaps someone from D3 has seen them, but seeing one game can be deceiving in both directions), but given that inability to compare, it would seem reasonable for them to be a #1.  If you want to go by D3football ranings, they'll probably be top 10 if they win out, which gives them enough credibility. 

I've seen every game Del Val has played for the last 8 years. I don't have them ranked in the Top 5 on my ballot.  The defense is very good. The offense is very young.  I think last year's Aggie team (offense + defense) is better than this year's overall.

That said, I don't have a problem with them being No. 1 in the bracket if they win out.  Or being No. 2 if they win out.  But they have to win out first, which will be very, very difficult.

Incidentally doesn't the highest ranked East team usually lose in the NCAA playoffs before playing Mount Union anyway?

I'm with SJF82. It's one thing if we're talking about a 9-1 Cortland State or IC a la 2008, or if some random ECFC team like Norwich goes 10-0, or even Hobart running it but only winning eight games.

But if you've got a traditionally strong program going 10-0 in the East in a decent conference, and they don't get a #1 seed, I mean, what's the point? It sort of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy at that point. No East team makes a deep run to have the preseason equity built up enough to get a #1 seed even if they do go 10-0, especially if their conference is weak, so they keep getting Mount shipped East.

Hypothetically speaking, do you think the selection committee would have made IC or Cortland a #1 seed had they gone 10-0 in 2008? Cortland was ranked #7 before losing to Ithaca in Week 10, and Ithaca wound up at #12 following the regular season, despite being unranked as late as week 5. I know the Top 25 isn't a determining factor, but still, it's clear those were considered two of the best teams in the country.

I ask because this seemed to me to be the season where we had a legit chance to have a true #1, and Ithaca made a mess of the whole thing, losing to Fisher, beating Cortland and then blowing the Curry game in the NCAA's. I feel like had either the Bombers or Red Dragons not lost, they could have really changed the perception of the East

[Bombers798891]

....but why do we get bombarded with Regional rankings...and why does that matter for selection criteria....if an East team plays Wesley or MUC in the Reg season, they gain no benefit or detriment, win or lose, in the objective numbers crunching, yet come seeding time, we are supposed to accept that there are no regions

This is what has always bugged me about it. When it comes to selecting the teams for the playoffs, it's all about regional performance, but yet, come playoff time, the idea of regions disappears. The selection (and seeding) criteria for the at-large teams:

• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP).
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results versus common regional opponents.
• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.

Every single primary criteria makes direct note that regions are what matters. The sport itself is regional. But come playoff time, that whole concept just shifts to something completely different. Why are regions so incredibly important right until we want to completely forget about them?