East Region Fan Poll

[SUADC]

I do not think that Mount Union will be moved from the North, due to the North not having that many undefeated teams.

I'm not sure that's really a thing, and even so, they would move undefeated Whitewater into that bracket.

I agree.  You have a log jam of quality teams in the West...Linfield, Tommies, UWW, ,

And the West has had more unique schools as national champions in the last 18 years of the Salem era...Pac LU, Linfield, St Johns, UWW UW-La Crosse.

It is the West Region that is causing trouble for the committee.

Well they should stop causing so much damn trouble.

I think that Linfield should not be in the discussion for a number 1 seed in the west, they only play nine games. I know it is hard to find a 10th game being out west, but still did not have a complete season as other teams in other regions. I think that Wisconsin-Whitewater should be #1 in the West, the Tommies #2, and then Linfield #3. This will keep Mount Union #1 in the North and Wabash #2 in the North. Thus, allowing Delaware Valley (if they win out) #1 in the East.

[AUKaz00]

I think that Wisconsin-Whitewater should be #1 in the West, the Tommies #2, and then Linfield #3.

I really want an East team to host a bracket, but you look at the above with 3 of the top 5 teams in the country in one bracket and you realize how selfish it seems.

[lewdogg11]

Ok, dependent on what Delaware Valley does this week, I think the bracket's will shake out as such:

Bracket 1:  (Delaware Valley wins this week)
1.  Mount Union
2.  Delaware Valley
3.  Salisbury
4.  Kean/Montclair
5.  Hobart
6.  WNEC/Framingham
7.  Norwich
8.  Albion

Wow... Identical to mine, Boss, from yesterday afternoon.

Oddly enough, I didn't look at yours when I just wrote that.  But I think it's a solid possibility.

[SUADC]

I think that Wisconsin-Whitewater should be #1 in the West, the Tommies #2, and then Linfield #3.

I really want an East team to host a bracket, but you look at the above with 3 of the top 5 teams in the country in one bracket and you realize how selfish it seems.

Your'e exactly right. Still, you can not fault Delaware Valley for being a solid 'East' regional team and going undefeated and prevent them from being #1. I think they should rotate counter-clockwise and send John Hopkins east or Wesley to help strengthen the "East." With that being said, how can you make majority of the South teams play Linfield, Whitewater, or the Tommies that would by far be a traveling concern, but it has been done before.

[lewdogg11]

I think that Wisconsin-Whitewater should be #1 in the West, the Tommies #2, and then Linfield #3.

I really want an East team to host a bracket, but you look at the above with 3 of the top 5 teams in the country in one bracket and you realize how selfish it seems.

Your'e exactly right. Still, you can not fault Delaware Valley for being a solid 'East' regional team and going undefeated and prevent them from being #1. I think they should rotate counter-clockwise and send John Hopkins east or Wesley to help strengthen the "East." With that being said, how can you make majority of the South teams play Linfield, Whitewater, or the Tommies that would by far be a traveling concern, but it has been done before.

The 'East' is automatically at a disadvantage because so many teams could get thrown into the bracket.  There's just a lot of schools within 500-600 miles where as the rest of the country contains a lot of trees and bears and a few scattered d3 schools here and there.  The 'South' region has some teams ~2000 miles apart(I checked Wesley to Trinity which was 1700) so they have far fewer options to play with the brackets. 

This bracket can get teams from MI, OH, MD, VA, WV, etc etc etc.  It's kind of crazy, and kind of BS, but it is what it is.

[Frank Rossi]

OK, let me be clear about one aspect of this year's process that nobody seems to be discussing.  Between last season and this season, the NCAA adopted a new wrinkle at the request of last year's Committee -- now, for the purpose of SEEDING, undefeated teams can be compared based on their recent playoff performance.

Why is this important?  I truly believe that this has given the Committee a new out for the whole idea they stated in the past that "if an East Region team [presumably in a power conference] went undefeated, that team would be the #1 seed in the East."  I honestly think that with the new wrinkle, it no longer applies.  Now, no matter what bracket the Committee chooses to compare Mount Union and Whitewater to, their recent playoff histories will trump any East, North, South or West team.  Essentially, Mount Union and Whitewater can be viewed as 10-0+, the "+" being a super-undefeated indicator that allows for a more fluid movement of the teams to the top of any bracket with better justification. 

This is why I've been adamant on the idea that Mount Union WILL be included in the East under current circumstances; there's just no way I can see to presently avoid it if there is the need for a "Top 4" and the inclusion of the new wrinkle for playoff histories of undefeated teams.

[SUADC]

OK, let me be clear about one aspect of this year's process that nobody seems to be discussing.  Between last season and this season, the NCAA adopted a new wrinkle at the request of last year's Committee -- now, for the purpose of SEEDING, undefeated teams can be compared based on their recent playoff performance.

Why is this important?  I truly believe that this has given the Committee a new out for the whole idea they stated in the past that "if an East Region team [presumably in a power conference] went undefeated, that team would be the #1 seed in the East."  I honestly think that with the new wrinkle, it no longer applies.  Now, no matter what bracket the Committee chooses to compare Mount Union and Whitewater to, their recent playoff histories will trump any East, North, South or West team.  Essentially, Mount Union and Whitewater can be viewed as 10-0+, the "+" being a super-undefeated indicator that allows for a more fluid movement of the teams to the top of any bracket with better justification. 

This is why I've been adamant on the idea that Mount Union WILL be included in the East under current circumstances; there's just no way I can see to presently avoid it if there is the need for a "Top 4" and the inclusion of the new wrinkle for playoff histories of undefeated teams.

So what justifies St. Thomas for getting a number one seed. I think Bethel has more justification than they do. They beat Bethel every year and when playoffs come around Bethel takes care of business. I never heard of St. Thomas until a couple years ago. I always heard of Delaware Valley. I am not taking anything away from St. Thomas, they have had good teams these last couple years, but historically Bethel along with St. Johns have been the top dogs of that conference and when it comes to playoffs, Bethel & St. Johns has been the winning teams. I believe that because they move Mount Union East and Whitewater north protects not only Whitewater from play Mount Union early (granted they are the top 2 teams), but protecting St. Thomas...can't fatham it. St. Thomas would never be in the discussion if Whitewater stayed in the West and Mount Union in the North. What would have occured is a 'East Team making it to the semi-finals each year and the everyone saying the east is very competitive, but since Mount Union is moved East, they say the East has no teams, but the North has no teams, Mount Union would dominate the North in similar fashion, the same way Whitewater has.

[Frank Rossi]

Put simply, St. Thomas is still undefeated; Bethel is not.  The wrinkle only applies when comparing undefeated teams with no real ability to differentiate them.

[AUKaz00]

Week 10 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Delaware Valley ( 5 )	9-0	68	1	vs. #5 Widener
2   Salisbury( 2 )	8-1	65	2	vs. Frostburg State
3   Kean	8-1	51	5	at #4 Montclair State
4   Montclair State	8-1	46	6	vs. #3 Kean
5   Widener	8-1	39	7	at #1 Delaware Valley
6   Hobart	6-1	34	3	at Rochester
7   Cortland State	7-2	33	8	at Ithaca
8   St. John Fisher	7-2	27	4	at Hartwick
9   Lycoming	7-2	19	13	vs. FDU-Florham
10  Western New England	9-1	5	10t	vs. Framingham State

Dropped Out:
#10t Lebanon Valley


Also Receiving votes:               
Lebanon Valley 2
Amherst 1
Union 1

            
Voting Distribution:            

Delaware Valley (1,2,1,1,1,1,2)
Salisbury (2,1,2,2,2,2,1)
Kean (7,3,4,3,3,3,3)
Montclair State (8,4,3,4,4,4,4)
Widener (3,6,5,5,8,6,5)
Hobart (5,5,7,7,6,7,6)
Cortland State (6,7,6,6,7,5,7)
St. John Fisher (4,8,8,8,5,8,9)
Lycoming (9,9,9,9,9,NR,8)
Western New England (NR,10,10,10,NR,9,NR)
Lebanon Valley (NR,NR,NR,NR,10,10,NR)
Amherst (10,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Union (NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,10)



Key Matchups:
#5 Widener at #1 Delaware Valley
#3 Kean at #4 Montclair State

[ExTartanPlayer]

I know it may not seem like a huge matchup, AUKaz, but I'd add the Rochester-Hobart game to your list of key matchups because it does hold playoff implications.

Rochy was blown off the field by SJF early in the season, but has shown respectably in all games since then, and I don't think it's all that farfetched to imagine that Rochy could win this game (they did beat Hobart in 2010).

Hobart's hiccup last week vs. RPI has put them in a precarious position at 4-1 in the LL (while Union is "in the clubhouse" at 5-1).  A Rochester victory over Hobart would give Union the LL's Pool A bid and presumably send Hobart tumbling out of these rankings, even if they did blow out SJF earlier this season.

[Pat Coleman]

So what justifies St. Thomas for getting a number one seed. I think Bethel has more justification than they do. They beat Bethel every year and when playoffs come around Bethel takes care of business.

St. Thomas beat Bethel this year. Bethel has beaten St. Thomas in the playoffs one time.

[AUKaz00]

I know it may not seem like a huge matchup, AUKaz, but I'd add the Rochester-Hobart game to your list of key matchups because it does hold playoff implications.

Yeah, as does WNEC vs. Framingham along with a number of other "big" games that I didn't include throughout the year.  I've been using that space to highlight any games between two fan regionally ranked teams.  I could expand that if it was worthwhile content, but where do I stop?  Maybe if I knew this poll was accessed by lot so folk from other regions who wouldn't know those additional games of interest instead of just us East guys.  So, if that would be useful, chime in on the board or via PM and I'll incorporate more key matchups next year.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Yeah, as does WNEC vs. Framingham along with a number of other "big" games that I didn't include throughout the year.  I've been using that space to highlight any games between two fan regionally ranked teams.  I could expand that if it was worthwhile content, but where do I stop? 

Fair point; I understand that you have to stop somewhere, and you're right that a number of games with playoff implciations are played in any given week. 

IMHO, with the stakes a little higher in Week 10/11, expanding the "Key Matchups" to include any game featuring at least one ranked team with a playoff berth on the line would be a worthwhile addition. 

The reason that this seemingly-benign Week 11 matchup holds some regional/national significance is the effect that the LL's Pool A bid going to 7-1 Hobart vs. 5-5 Union could have on playoff bracketology.  Hobart would be a candidate for a decent seed, while Union is a guaranteed #8 seed.  Teams like WNEC, the Kean/Montclair loser, and the Widener/DelVal loser oughta be pulling for Rochester to knock off Hobart this weekend, because that locks Union into a #8 slot and assures the above teams that they WON'T get stuck playing Mount Union.*

(*I think: is Union within 500 miles by the NCAA's official travel software?  GoogleMaps puts the trip at 487 miles).

[SUADC]

So what justifies St. Thomas for getting a number one seed. I think Bethel has more justification than they do. They beat Bethel every year and when playoffs come around Bethel takes care of business.

St. Thomas beat Bethel this year. Bethel has beaten St. Thomas in the playoffs one time.

I understand that, so what justifies them? They have a great rivalry with Bethel, going back the last 10 meetings between the two, they're tied at 5 each. However, St. Thomas has never played against the purple powers to show that they deserve to be #1. Yet, Bethel has played Mount Union twice since 2007, having a good game last year, but getting destroyed in 2007. I just don't think the 'West' should be represented by a team that has not proven themselves historically in the playoffs by not playing either Mount Union or Wisconsin-Whitewater. I would still consider Linfield more of a #1 seed than St. Thomas, because they have went toe to toe with "west" regional powerhouse Wisconsin-Whitewater.

[kubiack78]

So what justifies St. Thomas for getting a number one seed. I think Bethel has more justification than they do. They beat Bethel every year and when playoffs come around Bethel takes care of business.

St. Thomas beat Bethel this year. Bethel has beaten St. Thomas in the playoffs one time.

I understand that, so what justifies them? They have a great rivalry with Bethel, going back the last 10 meetings between the two, they're tied at 5 each. However, St. Thomas has never played against the purple powers to show that they deserve to be #1. Yet, Bethel has played Mount Union twice since 2007, having a good game last year, but getting destroyed in 2007. I just don't think the 'West' should be represented by a team that has not proven themselves historically in the playoffs by not playing either Mount Union or Wisconsin-Whitewater. I would still consider Linfield more of a #1 seed than St. Thomas, because they have went toe to toe with "west" regional powerhouse Wisconsin-Whitewater.

Historically UST is 1-0 against WW in the playoffs.  Thye beat WW in the 1990 playoffs 24-23   (don't go and lose you mind because I posted this... but you asked for history)