East Region Fan Poll

[SUADC]

So what justifies St. Thomas for getting a number one seed. I think Bethel has more justification than they do. They beat Bethel every year and when playoffs come around Bethel takes care of business.

St. Thomas beat Bethel this year. Bethel has beaten St. Thomas in the playoffs one time.

I understand that, so what justifies them? They have a great rivalry with Bethel, going back the last 10 meetings between the two, they're tied at 5 each. However, St. Thomas has never played against the purple powers to show that they deserve to be #1. Yet, Bethel has played Mount Union twice since 2007, having a good game last year, but getting destroyed in 2007. I just don't think the 'West' should be represented by a team that has not proven themselves historically in the playoffs by not playing either Mount Union or Wisconsin-Whitewater. I would still consider Linfield more of a #1 seed than St. Thomas, because they have went toe to toe with "west" regional powerhouse Wisconsin-Whitewater.

Historically UST is 1-0 against WW in the playoffs.  Thye beat WW in the 1990 playoffs 24-23   (don't go and lose you mind because I posted this... but you asked for history)

And that Whitewater team was in no comparison to the Whitewater teams of the last six years and Mount Union teams of the last 15 years and you only beat them by one point.

[kubiack78]

So what justifies St. Thomas for getting a number one seed. I think Bethel has more justification than they do. They beat Bethel every year and when playoffs come around Bethel takes care of business.

St. Thomas beat Bethel this year. Bethel has beaten St. Thomas in the playoffs one time.

I understand that, so what justifies them? They have a great rivalry with Bethel, going back the last 10 meetings between the two, they're tied at 5 each. However, St. Thomas has never played against the purple powers to show that they deserve to be #1. Yet, Bethel has played Mount Union twice since 2007, having a good game last year, but getting destroyed in 2007. I just don't think the 'West' should be represented by a team that has not proven themselves historically in the playoffs by not playing either Mount Union or Wisconsin-Whitewater. I would still consider Linfield more of a #1 seed than St. Thomas, because they have went toe to toe with "west" regional powerhouse Wisconsin-Whitewater.

Historically UST is 1-0 against WW in the playoffs.  Thye beat WW in the 1990 playoffs 24-23   (don't go and lose you mind because I posted this... but you asked for history)

And that Whitewater team was in no comparison to the Whitewater teams of the last six years and Mount Union teams of the last 15 years and you only beat them by one point.

I'm not a UST fan never have been and never will be

[Frank Rossi]

Yeah, as does WNEC vs. Framingham along with a number of other "big" games that I didn't include throughout the year.  I've been using that space to highlight any games between two fan regionally ranked teams.  I could expand that if it was worthwhile content, but where do I stop? 

Fair point; I understand that you have to stop somewhere, and you're right that a number of games with playoff implciations are played in any given week. 

IMHO, with the stakes a little higher in Week 10/11, expanding the "Key Matchups" to include any game featuring at least one ranked team with a playoff berth on the line would be a worthwhile addition. 

The reason that this seemingly-benign Week 11 matchup holds some regional/national significance is the effect that the LL's Pool A bid going to 7-1 Hobart vs. 5-5 Union could have on playoff bracketology.  Hobart would be a candidate for a decent seed, while Union is a guaranteed #8 seed.  Teams like WNEC, the Kean/Montclair loser, and the Widener/DelVal loser oughta be pulling for Rochester to knock off Hobart this weekend, because that locks Union into a #8 slot and assures the above teams that they WON'T get stuck playing Mount Union.*

(*I think: is Union within 500 miles by the NCAA's official travel software?  GoogleMaps puts the trip at 487 miles).

Neither WNEC/Framingham State nor Norwich are within 500 miles of Mount Union.  There will likely be an importation of another team within 500 miles of Mount Union for the #8 seed if Hobart wins, helping to rebalance the bracket and assuming no Pool C team is selected from the East.  If a Pool C team is selected in the East (and currently, the odds say that it would be either the Montclair/Kean loser, Cortland or St. John Fisher -- with Fisher being the most likely with a tremendous SoS right now), then THAT team would likely be sent to Alliance since all of those teams are within 500 miles and have two losses.  Of course, if Union gets the bid, the #1/#8 matchup will be easy to determine.

[Pat Coleman]

So what justifies St. Thomas for getting a number one seed. I think Bethel has more justification than they do. They beat Bethel every year and when playoffs come around Bethel takes care of business.

St. Thomas beat Bethel this year. Bethel has beaten St. Thomas in the playoffs one time.

I understand that, so what justifies them? They have a great rivalry with Bethel, going back the last 10 meetings between the two, they're tied at 5 each. However, St. Thomas has never played against the purple powers to show that they deserve to be #1. Yet, Bethel has played Mount Union twice since 2007, having a good game last year, but getting destroyed in 2007. I just don't think the 'West' should be represented by a team that has not proven themselves historically in the playoffs by not playing either Mount Union or Wisconsin-Whitewater. I would still consider Linfield more of a #1 seed than St. Thomas, because they have went toe to toe with "west" regional powerhouse Wisconsin-Whitewater.

Historically UST is 1-0 against WW in the playoffs.  Thye beat WW in the 1990 playoffs 24-23   (don't go and lose you mind because I posted this... but you asked for history)

And that Whitewater team was in no comparison to the Whitewater teams of the last six years and Mount Union teams of the last 15 years and you only beat them by one point.

Kubiack -- even when you post tongue-in-cheek and tell someone that you are doing so, sometimes it just goes over people's heads.

[kubiack78]

So what justifies St. Thomas for getting a number one seed. I think Bethel has more justification than they do. They beat Bethel every year and when playoffs come around Bethel takes care of business.

St. Thomas beat Bethel this year. Bethel has beaten St. Thomas in the playoffs one time.

I understand that, so what justifies them? They have a great rivalry with Bethel, going back the last 10 meetings between the two, they're tied at 5 each. However, St. Thomas has never played against the purple powers to show that they deserve to be #1. Yet, Bethel has played Mount Union twice since 2007, having a good game last year, but getting destroyed in 2007. I just don't think the 'West' should be represented by a team that has not proven themselves historically in the playoffs by not playing either Mount Union or Wisconsin-Whitewater. I would still consider Linfield more of a #1 seed than St. Thomas, because they have went toe to toe with "west" regional powerhouse Wisconsin-Whitewater.

Historically UST is 1-0 against WW in the playoffs.  Thye beat WW in the 1990 playoffs 24-23   (don't go and lose you mind because I posted this... but you asked for history)

And that Whitewater team was in no comparison to the Whitewater teams of the last six years and Mount Union teams of the last 15 years and you only beat them by one point.

Ok I'll play since you  don't understand tongue in cheek humor:
Your statement is not completely true,  the 90 team was undefeated 10-0 going onto the playoffs even without their all american running back (lost to a knee injury).  They had 2 all americans on the team and three players that went on to NFL camps after college.  After looking at your profile you either lied about your age or you were 2 years old when the 1990 playoffs were played and really can't make any kind of judgement about any team BPP (Before Post Patterns).

[SUADC]

So what justifies St. Thomas for getting a number one seed. I think Bethel has more justification than they do. They beat Bethel every year and when playoffs come around Bethel takes care of business.

St. Thomas beat Bethel this year. Bethel has beaten St. Thomas in the playoffs one time.

I understand that, so what justifies them? They have a great rivalry with Bethel, going back the last 10 meetings between the two, they're tied at 5 each. However, St. Thomas has never played against the purple powers to show that they deserve to be #1. Yet, Bethel has played Mount Union twice since 2007, having a good game last year, but getting destroyed in 2007. I just don't think the 'West' should be represented by a team that has not proven themselves historically in the playoffs by not playing either Mount Union or Wisconsin-Whitewater. I would still consider Linfield more of a #1 seed than St. Thomas, because they have went toe to toe with "west" regional powerhouse Wisconsin-Whitewater.

Historically UST is 1-0 against WW in the playoffs.  Thye beat WW in the 1990 playoffs 24-23   (don't go and lose you mind because I posted this... but you asked for history)

And that Whitewater team was in no comparison to the Whitewater teams of the last six years and Mount Union teams of the last 15 years and you only beat them by one point.

Ok I'll play since you  don't understand toung in cheek humor:
Your statement is not completely true,  the 90 team was undefeated 10-0 going onto the playoffs even without their all american running back (lost to a knee injury).  They had 2 all americans on the team and three players that went on to NFL camps after college.  After looking at your profile you either lied about your age or you were 2 years old when the 1990 playoffs were played and really can't make any kind of judgement about any team BPP (Before Post Patterns).

Okay, I was 2 years old. However, I can say that since those times, players in all divisions have become much bigger, faster, and stronger. Programs like Wisconsin-Whitewater have change for the better in respect to facilities, fan support, and recognition. Moreover, Wisconsin-Whitewater has become a powerhouse and as of late seem to be on a different level than other teams. In all relevancy (last 6-10 years). I have not seen St. Thomas play against UWW & MUC. I have seen Linfield, MHB, Wesley, Bethel, Del Val, and plenty of others play the two purple powers. In my opinion, with UWW & MUC running the show as of late, shouldn't teams that have face MUC & UWW as of late be considered a little more than teams that have not played MUC & UWW.

Furthermore, I do apologize if I didn't get your humor. I have upmost respect for individuals that came before me and individuals who keep Division 3 Football up and running. Thanks for the history lesson, it is always good to learn something new everyday.

[AUKaz00]

Endicott jumps into the Regional Rankings above Fisher, so it seems like the committee is setting it up to get Endicott on the board before any two-loss teams in the East.

[softballrz]

I agree.  a teams SOS must weigh less then we all thought

[Yanks 99]

Endicott jumps into the Regional Rankings above Fisher, so it seems like the committee is setting it up to get Endicott on the board before any two-loss teams in the East.

Stupid...simply stupid.  Is this the same regional rankings that last year had Mount Union ranked 3rd in the North going into the last week of the season?  The same regional ranking last year with the #1 and #2 ranked team in the North region (I forget who they were off of the top of my head) playing against each other in the final week of the season, with the #1 team winning...yet somehow getting jumped by MUC in the final poll?

Now...to be clear...I am arguing against this particular NCAA regional ranking system on two fronts.  #1...for them to have Mount Union only ranked as the third best team in the region at that point last year was ridiculous, and should immediately disqualify the poll as being serious, or useful.  The second piece is let's say we stick to their rankings...and that MUC was the 3rd best team in the region going into the final week of the season.  The two teams ranked ahead of MUC played against each other in the final week of the season, with the #1 team winning.  Yet somehow, MUC jumped them in the final poll.  Show me another example where the two top teams from the same region play each other and then the winner gets jumped by the #3 ranked team.

If it is in fact the same regional ranking poll, it is as useless today as it was a year ago.  While I am not sure that Fisher will get in as a Pool C if they finish 8-2...I am more certain that Endicott and the terrible NEFC doesn't deserve a 2nd bid this year...not with their terrible schedule of NEFC and ECFC teams and losing the one tough game that they played all year long.

[lewdogg11]

Endicott jumps into the Regional Rankings above Fisher, so it seems like the committee is setting it up to get Endicott on the board before any two-loss teams in the East.

Stupid...simply stupid.  Is this the same regional rankings that last year had Mount Union ranked 3rd in the North going into the last week of the season?  The same regional ranking last year with the #1 and #2 ranked team in the North region (I forget who they were off of the top of my head) playing against each other in the final week of the season, with the #1 team winning...yet somehow getting jumped by MUC in the final poll?

Now...to be clear...I am arguing against this particular NCAA regional ranking system on two fronts.  #1...for them to have Mount Union only ranked as the third best team in the region at that point last year was ridiculous, and should immediately disqualify the poll as being serious, or useful.  The second piece is let's say we stick to their rankings...and that MUC was the 3rd best team in the region going into the final week of the season.  The two teams ranked ahead of MUC played against each other in the final week of the season, with the #1 team winning.  Yet somehow, MUC jumped them in the final poll.  Show me another example where the two top teams from the same region play each other and then the winner gets jumped by the #3 ranked team.

If it is in fact the same regional ranking poll, it is as useless today as it was a year ago.  While I am not sure that Fisher will get in as a Pool C if they finish 8-2...I am more certain that Endicott and the terrible NEFC doesn't deserve a 2nd bid this year...not with their terrible schedule of NEFC and ECFC teams and losing the one tough game that they played all year long.

Let's face it, Fisher was a long shot as it was with 2 losses, but Hobart losing to RPI last week really sealed their fate. 

[Upstate]

If it is in fact the same regional ranking poll, it is as useless today as it was a year ago.  While I am not sure that Fisher will get in as a Pool C if they finish 8-2...I am more certain that Endicott and the terrible NEFC doesn't deserve a 2nd bid this year...not with their terrible schedule of NEFC and ECFC teams and losing the one tough game that they played all year long.

Yeah Fisher has no shot, especially after Hobart lost just like LD said previously. 

I think the best scenario for the East is to have DVC lose to Widener to add another strong 1 loss Pool C into the mix so a team like Endicott doesn't get in.

[SUADC]

Even though Endicott is above two-loss Fisher, I think the committee is going to allow the 2nd Place NJAC into the playoffs. This is how I have the east region playoff as of now. I am not a fan of having MUC in the east, but this is how it is and if Delaware Valley losses, there is no way they're going to allow the east not to have an undefeated team at #1. 

East Regional Playoff w/Mount Union & Del Val win                East Regional Playoff w/Mount Union & Del Val Lost

#1 Mount Union vs. #8 2nd NJAC/Endicott                           #1 Mount Union vs. #8 Norwich
#4 NJAC Winner vs. #5 WNEC/Hobart                                  #4 Del Val vs. #5 NJAC Winner
#2 Del Val vs. #7 Norwich                                                 #2 Salisbury vs. #7 Hobart/WNEC
#3 Salisbury vs.  #6 WNEC/Hobart                                      #3 Widener vs.  #6 WNEC/Hobart

[Frank Rossi]

Neither set is possible, SUADC.  Norwich and Endicott are both >500 miles from Alliance, OH.

[Upstate]

I think it was Frank & LD who brought up the idea of Albion moving into the bracket.

If that were to happen I'd love to see:

1) MUC (Pool A)
2) Salisbury (Pool A)
3) Weidner (Pool A)
4) NJAC Winner (Pool A)
5) DVC (Pool C)
6) Hobart (Pool A)
7) NEFC Winner (Pool A)
8) Albion (Pool A)

[rams1102]

I think it was Frank & LD who brought up the idea of Albion moving into the bracket.

If that were to happen I'd love to see:

1) MUC (Pool A)
2) Salisbury (Pool A)
3) Weidner (Pool A)
4) NJAC Winner (Pool A)
5) DVC (Pool C)
6) Hobart (Pool A)
7) NEFC Winner (Pool A)
8) Albion (Pool A)
[/quote

Where do you put Norwich ?