East Region Fan Poll

[lewdogg11]

Anyone getting the feeling that Widener is trying to get noticed???

Iffy. Beating W. Conn by 46 points isn't exactly a new trick (ask Cortland). King's has gone 1-9 each of the last two years (and really, a 35-point win is pretty common at the D-III level) And Misericordia might be the worst team in D-III (Consider that 1-3 Kings beat them 55-17). If you're a good team, and Widener probably is, a 46-, 35-, and even 67-point win isn't out of the question if the opponents are bad enough. The 2001 Bombers won four games by 49, 49, 52, and 66 points respectively.

The Wilkes score stunned me, and I already mentioned that I thought they left their staring QB in too long, but I will say this: I've seen games with similar/worse yardage discrepencies than 681-276 end much closer than that.

I think it's a perfect storm of a very good team playing horrible opponents back-to-back-to-back-to-back, leaving guys in a bit too long, and having one game where it was a perfect storm. Three of the games were conference games too, so a lot of that is out of their control. If these games were scattered throughout the year, I think we'd only notice the Wilkes game.

I don't know.  I think if they beat Wilkes 56-0 we'd all feel similarly about them.  Scoring 28 points in the 4th quarter of a 62-0 game tells me they are trying to get noticed.  The MAC looks like it's got some decent mid-level teams this year and no stud teams, so maybe Widener is trying to make a case that they are better than they are getting credit for, and the only way for people to take notice is to hang 90 on someone.  Wilkes does not appear to be a bad team.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Scoring 28 points in the 4th quarter of a 62-0 game tells me they are trying to get noticed.

I realize that we're splitting hairs a little here, and it's very hard to determine "intent" and all that, but I try to look pretty hard at boxscores of out-of-control games to see what happened in the fourth quarter.

The "28 points in the fourth quarter" is a little deceiving because they scored a touchdown 42 seconds into the quarter (with the second-team offense in on an 11-play drive with only one pass play, a 6-yard completion on a third-and-4) and then Wilkes fumbled the kickoff & that fumble was returned for a touchdown.  That added 14 points in the first minute of the fourth quarter, none of which fell into the "running it up" category.  From that point forward, the second-team offense scored two more touchdowns on mostly running plays (there was a 46-yard pass completion on a 3rd-and-5; obviously I can't really determine intent there, and it was probably unnecessary, but it's not like they were running no-huddle and chucking deep balls).

If I have an issue, it's the long touchdown pass that the first-team offense threw back in the third quarter with a 56-0 lead.  Probably didn't have to keep throwing it at all with the 56-0 lead, and definitely not with the first-team offense.  If you want to get your second QB some reps throwing the ball, I'm usually fine with that - perhaps you'll need him later in the season - but you can start doing that with a 42-point lead in the second half.  Don't have to wait until it's 62-0.

[Bombers798891]

Anyone getting the feeling that Widener is trying to get noticed???

Iffy. Beating W. Conn by 46 points isn't exactly a new trick (ask Cortland). King's has gone 1-9 each of the last two years (and really, a 35-point win is pretty common at the D-III level) And Misericordia might be the worst team in D-III (Consider that 1-3 Kings beat them 55-17). If you're a good team, and Widener probably is, a 46-, 35-, and even 67-point win isn't out of the question if the opponents are bad enough. The 2001 Bombers won four games by 49, 49, 52, and 66 points respectively.

The Wilkes score stunned me, and I already mentioned that I thought they left their staring QB in too long, but I will say this: I've seen games with similar/worse yardage discrepencies than 681-276 end much closer than that.

I think it's a perfect storm of a very good team playing horrible opponents back-to-back-to-back-to-back, leaving guys in a bit too long, and having one game where it was a perfect storm. Three of the games were conference games too, so a lot of that is out of their control. If these games were scattered throughout the year, I think we'd only notice the Wilkes game.

I don't know.  I think if they beat Wilkes 56-0 we'd all feel similarly about them.  Scoring 28 points in the 4th quarter of a 62-0 game tells me they are trying to get noticed.  The MAC looks like it's got some decent mid-level teams this year and no stud teams, so maybe Widener is trying to make a case that they are better than they are getting credit for, and the only way for people to take notice is to hang 90 on someone.  Wilkes does not appear to be a bad team.

The question for me has always been how do you score the points?

Widener's first 4th quarter touchdown came early in the quarter on a drive of mostly runs. The second came on the ensuing kickoff, when they returned a fumble for a TD. I have zero issue with those. A defense has to tackle, and you can't blame a guy for picking up a fumble. This, to me, is more on Wilkes than anything. If you're not going to hang onto the ball, that's what happens.

The third TD included a 46-yard pass, and that's got my eyebrow raised. But, it was the backup, and not all passes are created equal. Was it a pass into the flat followed by a bunch of blown tackles? Or was it a downfield throw? Sometimes those passes along the line of scrimmage are nothing more than long handoffs. I'm not a fan, but I'd like to know more before I get too critical.

The last one was another short field following a turnover (31-yard line) and the scoring drive consisted of three runs. The drive started with 2:45 to go, so they couldn't kneel out the game, and doing it just to punt seems almost patronizing to me. Again, at some point, the other team has to make plays too.

More than any of those, the touchdown thrown in the third quarter by Haupt, when it was 56-0, bothers me. I don't know what kind of pass it was, but in this case, I think it's a bigger issue. I've always said that teams wait too long to take out their starters, particularly at QB. There was 9:48 to go in the 3rd quarter at that time, and Haupt was something like 20-26 for 350 yards and 5 TDs. In my opinion, it's uncalled for that he's in there, throwing passes at that point. What, he needed more work? The game was still in doubt? That's the one I take issue with

[Bombers798891]

ExTartan beat me to it. +K for being quick on the draw, didn't mean to trample on your post

[AUKaz00]

Week 4 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Salisbury( 5 )	2-1	50	1	at Buffalo State
2   St. John Fisher	4-0	42	3	Open
3   Hobart	4-0	41	2	at WPI
4   Widener	4-0	37	6	at Lebanon Valley
5   RPI	3-0	24	8	at Merchant Marine
6   Brockport State	3-1	20	4	at #7 Rowan
7   Rowan	3-1	17	7	vs. #6 Brockport State
8   Lycoming	3-1	15	10t	vs. King's
9   Cortland State	2-1	9	10t	vs. Montclair State
10t Ithaca	3-0	6	NR	vs. Utica
10t Salve Regina	4-0	6	NR	at Western New England

Also Receiving votes:               
Buff State 4
Albright 2
Alfred 1
Delaware Valley 1
                     
            
Voting Distribution:            

Salisbury (1,1,1,1,1)
St. John Fisher (2,3,3,3,2)
Hobart (3,4,2,2,3)
Widener (4,2,4,4,4)
RPI (6,9,6,5,5)
Brockport State (9,7,5,7,7)
Rowan (5,6,10,6,NR)
Lycoming(7,8,8,9,8)
Cortland State (10,5,9,NR,NR)
Ithaca (NR,NR,NR,10,6)
Salve Regina (8,NR,NR,8,NR)
Buffalo State (NR,NR,7,NR,NR)
Albright (NR,NR,NR,NR,9)
Alfred (NR,NR,NR,NR,10)
Delaware Valley (NR,10,NR,NR,NR)


Key Matchups:
#6 Brockport State at #7 Rowan

[Bombers798891]

Week 4 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Salisbury( 5 )	2-1	50	1	at Buffalo State
2   St. John Fisher	4-0	42	3	Open
3   Hobart	4-0	41	2	at WPI
4   Widener	4-0	37	6	at Lebanon Valley
5   RPI	3-0	24	8	at Merchant Marine
6   Brockport State	3-1	20	4	at #7 Rowan
7   Rowan	3-1	17	7	vs. #6 Brockport State
8   Lycoming	3-1	15	10t	vs. King's
9   Cortland State	2-1	9	10t	vs. Montclair State
10t Ithaca	3-0	6	NR	vs. Utica
10t Salve Regina	4-0	6	NR	at Western New England

Also Receiving votes:               
Buff State 4
Albright 2
Alfred 1
Delaware Valley 1
                     
            
Voting Distribution:            

Salisbury (1,1,1,1,1)
St. John Fisher (2,3,3,3,2)
Hobart (3,4,2,2,3)
Widener (4,2,4,4,4)
RPI (6,9,6,5,5)
Brockport State (9,7,5,7,7)
Rowan (5,6,10,6,NR)
Lycoming(7,8,8,9,8)
Cortland State (10,5,9,NR,NR)
Ithaca (NR,NR,NR,10,6)
Salve Regina (8,NR,NR,8,NR)
Buffalo State (NR,NR,7,NR,NR)
Albright (NR,NR,NR,NR,9)
Alfred (NR,NR,NR,NR,10)
Delaware Valley (NR,10,NR,NR,NR)


Key Matchups:
#6 Brockport State at #7 Rowan

Wow, someone ranked IC sixth? I know we've had some carnage out here, but that's awfully high for a team with three wins over some bland opponents.

[AUKaz00]

Wow, someone ranked IC sixth? I know we've had some carnage out here, but that's awfully high for a team with three wins over some bland opponents.

Friggin' South Hill bias...

[ExTartanPlayer]

ExTartan beat me to it. +K for being quick on the draw, didn't mean to trample on your post

Great minds think alike!  Funny to see how parallel our posts are, in retrospect.  You went into a little more detail, but I was thinking much the same (i.e. that 46-yard pass may have been a dumpoff in the flat just to get the first down).  I'm also fine with a team running a pass play with the second/third team offense if there's a specific purpose to it - maybe later in the season, your backup QB will be in the game for a 3rd-and-6 and you'll need to complete that bootleg pass to the TE for a first down, so it's all right to give him a game rep doing so.  Just keep it reasonable (i.e. no need for a play-action bomb on third-and-1).

I've been sensitive to this issue since ESPN's Gregg Easterbrook wrote a column criticizing Mount Union for running up the score when, in reality, nothing could have been further from the truth (i.e. they'd be running simple offensive plays with backups, kicking FG's on first down, etc).  Since then, I've always done the same as you - I check the boxscore to see HOW a team scored that many points.

In another recent high-profile case that got a lot of national publicity, Oklahoma State beat Savannah State 84-0, but the first team offense left the game in the first half, they didn't throw a pass after midway through the third quarter, and they played something like 94 guys in the game.  Pretty obvious that they weren't running it up intentionally - if your third-team RB's are scoring on running plays from your base offense, that's fine with me.

[Bombers798891]

ExTartan beat me to it. +K for being quick on the draw, didn't mean to trample on your post

I've been sensitive to this issue since ESPN's Gregg Easterbrook wrote a column criticizing Mount Union for running up the score when, in reality, nothing could have been further from the truth (i.e. they'd be running simple offensive plays with backups, kicking FG's on first down, etc).  Since then, I've always done the same as you - I check the boxscore to see HOW a team scored that many points.

Easterbrook's biggest problem—and they are myriad—is that his MUC attacks are usually something along the lines of "MUC schedules cupcakes, and sometimes loses in the playoffs." Ignoring of course, the fact that MUC's schedule is essentially iron clad. He doesn't know anything about D-III football, and that's abundantly clear, so I wouldn't let it bug you. It's not the differing of opinions that's the problem, it's his blatant disregard for presenting a fact-based piece by selectively omitting information that contradicts what he wants to rant about.

The OKST-Savannah game (and the Florida State game that followed it), is to me, is a failure of ADs. Yes, we all know these schools have bills to pay, and this is a big part of that. And I'm sure these coaches and players know it's coming when they sign up. But at some point, you just shake your head. Were it not for the running clock/weather fiasco, Savannah loses both those games by 80+ points. Embarrassing

[Bombers798891]

Wow, someone ranked IC sixth? I know we've had some carnage out here, but that's awfully high for a team with three wins over some bland opponents.

Friggin' South Hill bias...

Seriously...

[AUPepBand]

Wow, someone ranked IC sixth? I know we've had some carnage out here, but that's awfully high for a team with three wins over some bland opponents.

Friggin' South Hill bias...

...not to mention the D&C bias. Pep got a chuckle in reading the Rochester Democrat & Chronicle's account of Saterday's games. The Alfred-Buffalo State write-up, in particular, was hilarious, given the staff should have been well aware of the Bengals' big win the week before and known who the Bengals were playing. Here's Jim Mandelaro's column while here's the Alfred-Buffalo State write-up (on second page).

On Saxon Warriors!

[dlippiel]

Is it bizarre that Salve is ranked ahead of Buffalo State, a team that beat UWW in Cheese land? Don't get dlip wrong, he is a fan of Salve but something about that just seems a little off to him.

[wesleydad]

what caught my eye was that someone did not rank Rowan.  not sure how that could be.  guess they get a chance to change someones perspective this weekend.

[Bombers798891]

Is it bizarre that Salve is ranked ahead of Buffalo State, a team that beat UWW in Cheese land? Don't get dlip wrong, he is a fan of Salve but something about that just seems a little off to him.

Buff State has played a couple other games...

[dlippiel]

Yes a few more games consisting of a win, a big win dlip might add over Cortland and a loss at #6 Brockport. The loss to Alfred is disturbing to dlip but not disturbing enough to knock them out of the poll after defeating the  #1 team in the nation on the road ya know bombers? Just some thoughts after Back to School Night.