East Region Fan Poll

[dlippiel]

Week 5 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Hobart( 5 )	4-0	50	1	at Springfield
2   St. John Fisher	4-0	45	2	at #9 Hartwick
3   Salisbury	2-2	40	5	vs. Buffalo State
4   Lycoming	4-1	33	7	at Lebanon Valley
5   Rowan	3-1	28	6	at Morrisville State
6   Delaware Valley	4-1	24	3	Open
7   Alfred	3-1	14	9	at #10 Ithaca
8   Widener	3-2	12	8	Open
9   Hartwick	4-0	9	NR	vs. #2 St. John Fisher
10  Ithaca	3-1	6	4	vs. #7 Alfred

Dropped Out:
Utica


Also Receiving votes:               
Lebanon Valley 4
Buffalo State 3
Brockport State 2
Framingham State 2
Cortland State 1
St. Lawrence 1
Western Connecticut 1
                     
            
Voting Distribution:            

Hobart (1,1,1,1,1)
St. John Fisher (2,2,2,2,2)
Salisbury (3,3,3,3,3)
Lycoming (4,5,4,4,5)
Rowan (6,4,7,6,4)
Delaware Valley (6,4,7,6,4)
Alfred (7,6,NR,NR,6)
Widener (10,NR,6,9,7)
Hartwick (NR,9,8,7,NR)
Ithaca (NR,NR,NR,8,8)
Lebanon Valley (NR,8,NR,10,NR)
Buffalo State (8,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Brockport State (9,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Framingham State (NR,NR,9,NR,NR)
Cortland State (NR,NR,NR,NR,10)
St. Lawrence (NR,10,NR,NR,NR)
Western Connecticut (NR,NR,10,NR,NR)


Key Matchups:
#2 St. John Fisher at #9 Hartwick
#7 Alfred at #10 Ithaca

It's kind of weird that Rowan would be higher than Delaware Valley, I see that Rowan got two 4 place votes, but I didn't see two 3rd place votes for Delaware Valley. I would think that you would compare head-to-head as consideration, unless there was some type of anomaly during the two teams head-to-head matchup.

It really is a mess. Obviously the head to head comes into play however it was a crazy game and with Del Val's struggles the last two weeks ( a close game with an upstart Stevenson and loss to Lyco) he felt like Rowan warranted that spot over the Aggies. He went with a gut here but has no issue with anyone taking issue with that as a result of the head to head W for Del Val. It is a huge cluster with very little black and white data to support much from places 3-10.

[AUPepBand]

Kaz00, it looks like there may be something up with Rowan and Del Valley.  They look to have the same votes on your breakdown.  Not sure if this came into play with the vote tally or not.

+K for the sniper kitten avatar with innocent puppy victims sighting in at the Puppy Bowl....

[AUKaz00]

Kaz00, it looks like there may be something up with Rowan and Del Valley.  They look to have the same votes on your breakdown.  Not sure if this came into play with the vote tally or not.

Pep is thinking he copied it incorrectly because their point totals are different and there are a few "5"s missing. Probably doesn't affect outcome in any way, IMHO.

Pep's right; I'm an idiot.  Del Val's line should read 5,7,5,5,9.  I'll adjust that now.

[bman]

I think it's just me, but I am not buying into the whole Rowan thing here...  I still don't see a quality win, (Brockport win over Lyco comparitive somwhat dismissed in my mind as their record offsets that)...
I guess the real Rowan will be uncovered(or displayed) against Wesley in a couple weeks...until then, my thought is they are vastly overranked here...

[lewdogg11]

I think it's just me, but I am not buying into the whole Rowan thing here...  I still don't see a quality win, (Brockport win over Lyco comparitive somwhat dismissed in my mind as their record offsets that)...
I guess the real Rowan will be uncovered(or displayed) against Wesley in a couple weeks...until then, my thought is they are vastly overranked here...

I don't think anyone is that high on Rowan.  It's a process of elimination at this point.  I think Brockport and Buff St. would beat all NEFC, ECFC, and MASCAC teams, but how do we put them in the top 10?  This season has been all out of wack.  RPI beats Alfred, then loses pretty badly to WPI, and Alfred goes and beats Montclair, Brockport and Buff St.  There's a hundred comparisons just like this that are hard to make sense of.

[wesleydad]

having seen the rowan and del val game, i would say that they are about the same.  rowan should not have lost the game, but did not show much during it to make them stand out.  the east is imploding with only hobart and fisher looking like they are worthy of their placing.  most of the other teams have a bad loss on their record.

[AUPepBand]

having seen the rowan and del val game, i would say that they are about the same.  rowan should not have lost the game, but did not show much during it to make them stand out.  the east is imploding with only hobart and fisher looking like they are worthy of their placing.  most of the other teams have a bad loss on their record.

...and Pep will add that how Fisher tackles the cage match on saterday will go a long way in determining whether there's a Team Boltus among us!

[AUPepBand]

Kaz00, it looks like there may be something up with Rowan and Del Valley.  They look to have the same votes on your breakdown.  Not sure if this came into play with the vote tally or not.

Pep is thinking he copied it incorrectly because their point totals are different and there are a few "5"s missing. Probably doesn't affect outcome in any way, IMHO.

Pep's right; I'm an idiot.  Del Val's line should read 5,7,5,5,9.  I'll adjust that now.

Pep is thinking Kaz00 is too hard on himself. Careless?...maybe. Idiot?...never. Heck, keyboards were made for typos.

[dlippiel]

I think it's just me, but I am not buying into the whole Rowan thing here...  I still don't see a quality win, (Brockport win over Lyco comparitive somwhat dismissed in my mind as their record offsets that)...
I guess the real Rowan will be uncovered(or displayed) against Wesley in a couple weeks...until then, my thought is they are vastly overranked here...

Dlip agrees but again what else is there? It's a mess and again, the HTH loss to Del Val warrants a clear argument against the Profs being higher than the Aggies but you can also go the Lyco/Brockport/Rowan rd as well. The east is going to take a while to shake out. Until then you've got Bart and SJF and then everyone else. Crazy but somewhat exciting in a weird way. Honestly Dlip isn't even sold on Hobart yet let alone a Rowan or anyone else.

[bman]

Good points made.  I guess most of the poll up to now is based on who has avoided an upset or a near miss.  Will be interesting to see how the next few weeks play out.

[pumkinattack]

I keep seeing a skepticism about Hobart this year and I sort of understand (have shared many frustrations/thoughts w/ITH privately).  However, I think this is being oversold.  Consider that Hobart has effectively shut out three of its first four (admittedly not as strong) opponents.  Dickinson, MMA & WPI all scored in the 4th quarter not against the 2nd string D, but the "let the hard working kids at the end of the bench and walk ons get some run" portion of the roster.  The "top" league rushers were completely shut down and the yardage they did get came largely against this group late (I think Grasis had like 35 yards through three quarters and same for the QB at MMA).  The D looks every bit as good as last year.  Utica game we had four turnovers and had some big play scores, so they held the ball for like 40 minutes, which skews all the stats, but that game was no closer than last years and we know what Hobart did last year with 75% of the same folks including the most key defensive players and awesome RB. 

Now, we're breaking in a new QB who played a little last year and lost Jr Woodard, but we do have a deep, talented and experienced OL a good Senior in Yosh K at WR who's been slient.  Also a RB who's perhaps the most underrated offensive player in the country in Steve Webb.  The guy had 1k yards last year splitting time with another 1k rusher and has been doing big things for 3+ years now.  I watch these guys every week and Conlon is more talented than Strang (who won a ton, but from a pure talent perspective is on par with Rich Doyle and behind Swanson, Mizro and Strom IMO) and comes from great family football pedigree.  It appears as though he's still learning the position (called a couple of unnecessary TO's when he looked confused and a few throws where the WR was running a different route), but I think as the season progresses he'll do some thing to make people do a double take (the big run against MMA was spectacular and could open up opposing D's if he has a couple of 15+ gains in the next few weeks). 

Big problem for Hobart is schedule.  I thought this iteration of Utica was better than last year's overall despite Benkwitt leaving.  They obviously got smoked last week and who knows, they probably aren't better than 6-4 probably at this point.  Dickinson is in a secular downturn, but is a historical opponent/season opener for 20yrs now and isn't going anywhere.  The 10th game is a frustration, but it's not as simple as people who aren't involved with the school think.  Springfield is not looking as advertised going into the year (and I'm sure losing that stud DE is killing them) and Union being one league loss away from their season totally being over (forget mathematical possibilities, no one's winning the league with 2 conference losses this year). 

No one really knows if Hobart is the 5th best team in the country or the 16th best team, but they're really good.  The fact that they don't have a MIAC/WIAC type of schedule may help the offense get up to speed, but I will go on record now as saying they won't lose a regular season game this year if they win the +/-. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

Big problem for Hobart is schedule...

No one really knows if Hobart is the 5th best team in the country or the 16th best team, but they're really good.

I agree with the bolded statement.  I don't think anyone is skeptical about whether Hobart is "good" or at least one of the top 2-3 teams in the East, but as you allude here, I think it's fair to wonder whether that translates to being #5 in the nation or #16.  IMO, that's what dlip and others mean when they say they're not totally sold on Hobart.  I agree with you that they're likely to finish the regular season undefeated, but the "inconvenient truth" is that the Liberty League just hasn't been very good the last few years (Union has finished second in the LL in both 2011 and 2012 while going winless in nonconference play both times against "decent" but not great competition), so it can be hard to tell exactly how good they are until they get into the postseason.

(FTR, I am not remotely suggesting that 'Bart is at fault for keeping their schedule as is)

[D3MAFAN]

I keep seeing a skepticism about Hobart this year and I sort of understand (have shared many frustrations/thoughts w/ITH privately).  However, I think this is being oversold.  Consider that Hobart has effectively shut out three of its first four (admittedly not as strong) opponents.  Dickinson, MMA & WPI all scored in the 4th quarter not against the 2nd string D, but the "let the hard working kids at the end of the bench and walk ons get some run" portion of the roster.  The "top" league rushers were completely shut down and the yardage they did get came largely against this group late (I think Grasis had like 35 yards through three quarters and same for the QB at MMA).  The D looks every bit as good as last year.  Utica game we had four turnovers and had some big play scores, so they held the ball for like 40 minutes, which skews all the stats, but that game was no closer than last years and we know what Hobart did last year with 75% of the same folks including the most key defensive players and awesome RB. 

Now, we're breaking in a new QB who played a little last year and lost Jr Woodard, but we do have a deep, talented and experienced OL a good Senior in Yosh K at WR who's been slient.  Also a RB who's perhaps the most underrated offensive player in the country in Steve Webb.  The guy had 1k yards last year splitting time with another 1k rusher and has been doing big things for 3+ years now.  I watch these guys every week and Conlon is more talented than Strang (who won a ton, but from a pure talent perspective is on par with Rich Doyle and behind Swanson, Mizro and Strom IMO) and comes from great family football pedigree.  It appears as though he's still learning the position (called a couple of unnecessary TO's when he looked confused and a few throws where the WR was running a different route), but I think as the season progresses he'll do some thing to make people do a double take (the big run against MMA was spectacular and could open up opposing D's if he has a couple of 15+ gains in the next few weeks). 

Big problem for Hobart is schedule.  I thought this iteration of Utica was better than last year's overall despite Benkwitt leaving.  They obviously got smoked last week and who knows, they probably aren't better than 6-4 probably at this point.  Dickinson is in a secular downturn, but is a historical opponent/season opener for 20yrs now and isn't going anywhere.  The 10th game is a frustration, but it's not as simple as people who aren't involved with the school think.  Springfield is not looking as advertised going into the year (and I'm sure losing that stud DE is killing them) and Union being one league loss away from their season totally being over (forget mathematical possibilities, no one's winning the league with 2 conference losses this year). 

No one really knows if Hobart is the 5th best team in the country or the 16th best team, but they're really good.  The fact that they don't have a MIAC/WIAC type of schedule may help the offense get up to speed, but I will go on record now as saying they won't lose a regular season game this year if they win the +/-.

I had a minor discussion on the Fan poll section, I basically mirrored what you have indicated. I think some fans look at Hobart similar to what fans do when they look at teams from smaller conferences in the FBS (i.e. Louisville) and say they have to put up 70 points in a shutout and can't have any flaws to be considered a Top 10 team. As you aforementioned, Hobart returns about 75% of its team from last year and the defense that made them that top team has two of the top defensive players in the country. I don't think it is necessarily your conference that is making fans perceive Hobart that way, I think it is the East perception. I think many perceive that the East will only have one actually good team year in and year out and with that team eventuall losing to a 'you know who or a Top West team by a considerable margin. I think until a East represenative actually pushes some of those other top region teams to the brink or even beat them, that perception will stay. I went back to 2011 and noted that many thought that Salisbury was the best team coming out the East, because of the numbers that they were putting up. However, just looking at numbers and numbers alone, many would note that Hobart loss by a smaller margin to Wesley   than Salisbury did and that same Wesley team went toe to toe with "you know who", who eventually loss to UWW by 3. Again, I think as a region, we just have to perform better on the big stage.

[redhawks]

The past 3 years we have seen no true east region bracket. In regards to Hobart being a top 5 contender team is hard for me to consider because of their schedule which has also been mentioned. I have played both Wesley and Mount Union at their places and I can't think Hobart has that type of high level talent (maybe this is the year they prove me wrong). Right now I would favor all 6 teams ahead of them in the top 25 and until there is a true East #1; going on the road in the playoffs to these top teams is very tough.

Speaking from an NJAC point of view; their recruiting needs to expand especially for the NJ teams reaching out of state. The New England schools take plenty of NJ kids every year.

Hobart has players from 11 different states which I think is one reason they have been able to move into challenging the elite teams.

[pumkinattack]

I like these replies, and I probably posted because of my own confusion about the team this year.  I think they should be in the 10-15 range right now and 7 is too high personally, but I'll take it as it's good marketing for the school/program. 

I had a much, much bigger beef with 2011 where I thought we got treated like a second class citizen in the national discussion and on seeding due to a bizarre loss to RPI that I still can't explain.  Last year's team wasn't really any better and the team that played Wesley had backups at QB, ILB and WR.  SJF finished in the top ten for beating DelVal and JHU that year, but I still maintain we would've had the same results in 2011 and a different discussion if we had gotten a different draw than a road trip to the #3 or #4 team in the country on the road. 

My biggest concern, however, is the loss of assistant coach Scott Yoder to Shenendoah.  Kevin DeWall is a great guy, coach and recruiter, but Yoder was every bit as important w/15yrs in Geneva as a student/athlete and coach.  I was there with both and you can see what Yoder's already done with Shenendoah and I think he's going to turn them into a conference power in the ODAC within 5yrs.