East Region Fan Poll

[dlippiel]

To be honest, i'm kind of sick of all of the comments that the NEFC, MASCAC, ECFC, teams have 'closed the gap'.  Where is the evidence?  Playing a close game against Cortland last year?  If anything, some of the traditional powers from the LL, E8 and NJAC have gotten worse(RPI, Union, Springfield, Montclair, TCNJ, Hartwick), but in no way do I feel an NEFC, ECFC, or MASCAC team has a better chance now of winning a playoff game than they did 10 years ago.  All they've done is swap who the good team is from Curry to Framingham St.  Bridgewater, Endicott, and Salve are all decent teams, but there were decent teams back in Curry's hayday.  I still wouldn't expect them to win. 

Can one of these teams win in a playoff game?  Yes.  They always have had the opportunity, and they've had some close games, and even a couple of wins, but I wouldn't say their chances are any better now than they ever were.  Fact.

Either way the gap has been closed and seems to continue to get closer Lew. And unless you have watched the almost every team in the league play for the last decade than you really can't say there has been no improvement with the amount of certainty you are speaking with. The fact is many of these teams now have full time coaches where they didn't before and a new found financial commitment to improving. We are ven seeing the scheduling improve. dlip hears you and maybe overstates that the gap is closing so much, however he thinks to deny that more than just one of the teams in these leagues are getting better to dlip, is not all that accurate. Look at Worcester State and their annual series with WPI. Both teams aren't all that good but WPI used to romp WS. Now WS has won the last three meetings. dlip agrees with you regarding that generally the top 8-10 teams in the region are a good amount better than most of the top ECFC, NEFC, and MASCAC teams however the rest of the teams seem to be getting closer across the board in the east region to dlip.

Look at a not good Salve team that lost to Montclair who defeated Morrisville who defeated Rowan who defeated Wesley. Would we even be able to amke these comparisons 10 years ago?

Is dlip actually defending the NEFC, MASCAC, and ECFC? WTF? Lew slap dlip quick. Snap him out of it

[Bombers798891]

As far as the gap closing, I'm going to side with LD here, at least in regards to the "why".

The traditional East regions this year are down. There's absolutely no way to argue otherwise based on evidence.

Among traditional members, who is better than they were in 2007 in the Empire 8? Fisher sure isn't, and Ithaca, despite that gaudy 6-1 record, isn't either. Forget Hartwick. Alfred was probably better in 2007 as well, considering all three of their losses were to playoff teams on the road, and this year's team has a home loss to a 3-4 RPI team at home. All four of those teams were legit NCAA contenders in 2007. And every one of them would wax their 2013 versions.

Moving to the LL, other than Hobart, who are we taking as a serious contender? The current teams in 2nd and 3rd are Rochester and St. Lawrence. Prior to this year, St. Lawrence hadn't won more than five games in a season since at least 1999. Rochester hadn't had a winning season since 2007. And these are your second and third best teams. MMA, while intriguing, hasn't had a winning season since 2003. These are perpetually bad/mediocre programs, and they're suddenly making up the top half?

And the NJAC is a total disaster this year. Everyone but Rowan already has three losses. By the end of the year, it's entirely possible only one or two finishes with fewer than four, and one of those four loss teams could be the conference champ.

Seems to me that those three conferences have, between them, ONE legit, playoff-caliber team that isn't some free agent like Salisbury: Hobart. I would not pick ANY of the other teams that are dotting the tops of these conferences to win a single NCAA playoff game.

So yeah, the gap's closing, but only because the top half has receded.

[lewdogg11]

First off, WPI sucks.  Worcester State used to be nasty back in the 90's.  You really can't take those games into consideration at all.  They are a toss up every year.  It's a small rivalry and both teams are mediocre at their best in any given year recently.  We've definitely seen plenty of times where Worcester St. has a decent year overall and loses to WPI, but WPI losing to Worcester St. has no meaning to me.  WPI is no measuring stick for the LL.  I think the bottom of the LL is as bad as the bottom of any conference.  And I don't think bad upon Salve(you say a 'not good' Salve team) and Bridgewater, and Endicott etc.  I think they are half decent, even pretty good.  But they can't compete with the top 10 of the East this year.  Framingham appears to be the cream of the crop in 2013 for this group, and I think they will lose in the first round IF they make the playoffs.  Endicott or Salve will lose in Rd 1, depending on who wins the conference(unless they play another layup).  Those teams are all leaps and bounds ahead of the ECFC, but not at the level of the rest of the East's best.  I have Delaware Valley at 10.  Who would you pick in a Delaware Valley vs. Framingham game???  Who would you pick if I set the spread at +14?  I know who i'd take in both cases.

RPI and Union suck so bad this year I might be headed to the Endicott/Salve season finale instead of making the trip to Schenectady.

[lewdogg11]

It's extremely likely that Gallaudet goes undefeated, and it's a shame but likely that they will steal a playoff spot.  Hopefully the NCAA does right and let's Hobart have their crack at them instead of facing them off vs. a South Region team based on location.  Hobart has had some tough seedings in the past.  I would love to see them get a better bracket this year with their high national rank.

[dlippiel]

First off, WPI sucks.  Worcester State used to be nasty back in the 90's.  You really can't take those games into consideration at all.  They are a toss up every year.  It's a small rivalry and both teams are mediocre at their best in any given year recently.  We've definitely seen plenty of times where Worcester St. has a decent year overall and loses to WPI, but WPI losing to Worcester St. has no meaning to me.  WPI is no measuring stick for the LL.  I think the bottom of the LL is as bad as the bottom of any conference.  And I don't think bad upon Salve(you say a 'not good' Salve team) and Bridgewater, and Endicott etc.  I think they are half decent, even pretty good.  But they can't compete with the top 10 of the East this year.  Framingham appears to be the cream of the crop in 2013 for this group, and I think they will lose in the first round IF they make the playoffs.  Endicott or Salve will lose in Rd 1, depending on who wins the conference(unless they play another layup).  Those teams are all leaps and bounds ahead of the ECFC, but not at the level of the rest of the East's best.  I have Delaware Valley at 10.  Who would you pick in a Delaware Valley vs. Framingham game???  Who would you pick if I set the spread at +14?  I know who i'd take in both cases.

RPI and Union suck so bad this year I might be headed to the Endicott/Salve season finale instead of making the trip to Schenectady.

Fair enough because dlip would take Del Val all day long.

[D3MAFAN]

Like the new look on the homepage and how when scrolling through teams information, it has a picture of the stadium.

[dlippiel]

Not to beat a dead horse to a pulp but Dlip's initial post/response was an effort to shed some light on what does seem to always be a **** storm that comes down on the NEFC/ECFC/MASCAC, sometimes from Dlip himself. Dlip's thoughts may have been abit unsubstantiated but was based on a couple things. First how he was impressed by Salve Regina the past couple years. Not only because they defeated Union but because he thought they were a good squad. This August he was impressed by West Conn in the scrimmage against Union. Much of this could be a result of shock value because he expected them to be atrocious and they definitely we're not. They had size and some athleticism. They just weren't deep. Dlip also has taken into consideration the Purple Dranks success about 5 years ago and Framingham's performance against Cortland last season. Also both Salve and Framingham's improved scheduling is note worthy.

With that said he realizes this isn't enough to make an argument that validates consistent ER top ten consideration outside of maybe the one top team from all three conferences in the lower half. Dlip himself has not included any of the aforementioned team's in his poll if he rememer's correctly. On top of that the gap that is getting a bit smaller (agree with Bombers) according to the available head to head and comparative results really support more of a drop of traditionally strong ER teams than a large or wide spread improvement of the aforementioned leagues.

Dlip submits and acknowledges his overstep. We debate, we live, learn, and gain perspective.

[ECoastFootball]

It's extremely likely that Gallaudet goes undefeated, and it's a shame but likely that they will steal a playoff spot.  Hopefully the NCAA does right and let's Hobart have their crack at them instead of facing them off vs. a South Region team based on location.  Hobart has had some tough seedings in the past.  I would love to see them get a better bracket this year with their high national rank.

Steal a spot? They'll be the auto-bid, so that's a spot you were already assuming was going to be gone. Also, if an ECFC team has to make it, Ill take one that has beaten Shenandoah (who beat Hampden-Sydney) and Rochester (by 24) over the ECFC teams of the past.

[Jonny Utah]

It's extremely likely that Gallaudet goes undefeated, and it's a shame but likely that they will steal a playoff spot.  Hopefully the NCAA does right and let's Hobart have their crack at them instead of facing them off vs. a South Region team based on location.  Hobart has had some tough seedings in the past.  I would love to see them get a better bracket this year with their high national rank.

Steal a spot? They'll be the auto-bid, so that's a spot you were already assuming was going to be gone. Also, if an ECFC team has to make it, Ill take one that has beaten Shenandoah (who beat Hampden-Sydney) and Rochester (by 24) over the ECFC teams of the past.

I think that "stealing" a spot means when a team outside of the top 8 in the east gets a bid over a top 8 team only because they won their conference.

Felony Larceny is when a team outside of the top 20 in the east gets a bid over a top 8 team.

[ECoastFootball]

Ahhh, makes sense. I was confused because he said "likely."

[D3MAFAN]

It's extremely likely that Gallaudet goes undefeated, and it's a shame but likely that they will steal earn a playoff spot.  Hopefully the NCAA does right and let's Hobart have their crack at them instead of facing them off vs. a South Region team based on location.  Hobart has had some tough seedings in the past.  I would love to see them get a better bracket this year with their high national rank.

Steal a spot? They'll be the auto-bid, so that's a spot you were already assuming was going to be gone. Also, if an ECFC team has to make it, Ill take one that has beaten Shenandoah (who beat Hampden-Sydney) and Rochester (by 24) over the ECFC teams of the past.

I think that "stealing" a spot means when a team outside of the top 8 in the east gets a bid over a top 8 team only because they won their conference.

Felony Larceny is when a team outside of the top 20 in the east gets a bid over a top 8 team.

I understand your point, but stealing is such a harsh word, but do I believe there are stronger teams, yes. But they have beaten everyone on their schedule and have beaten the #2 team in the LL and #4 team in the ODAC. Yes, they are not blowing the breaks off of the teams in their conference, but they are still undefeated, which you can't ask anymore of them. I know many of you do not like looking into the past, but they have been very competitive in their OOC games the last couple years. Maybe next year they can get apprentice off the schedule and schedule a team from the big conferences.

[lewdogg11]

It's extremely likely that Gallaudet goes undefeated, and it's a shame but likely that they will steal earn a playoff spot.  Hopefully the NCAA does right and let's Hobart have their crack at them instead of facing them off vs. a South Region team based on location.  Hobart has had some tough seedings in the past.  I would love to see them get a better bracket this year with their high national rank.

Steal a spot? They'll be the auto-bid, so that's a spot you were already assuming was going to be gone. Also, if an ECFC team has to make it, Ill take one that has beaten Shenandoah (who beat Hampden-Sydney) and Rochester (by 24) over the ECFC teams of the past.

I think that "stealing" a spot means when a team outside of the top 8 in the east gets a bid over a top 8 team only because they won their conference.

Felony Larceny is when a team outside of the top 20 in the east gets a bid over a top 8 team.

I understand your point, but stealing is such a harsh word, but do I believe there are stronger teams, yes. But they have beaten everyone on their schedule and have beaten the #2 team in the LL and #4 team in the ODAC. Yes, they are not blowing the breaks off of the teams in their conference, but they are still undefeated, which you can't ask anymore of them. I know many of you do not like looking into the past, but they have been very competitive in their OOC games the last couple years. Maybe next year they can get apprentice off the schedule and schedule a team from the big conferences.

It's a stolen playoff spot.  The ECFC was formed for this very reason, just like the NEFC split and the MASCAC was born, to steal another playoff spot in coming years.  It's none of the teams' faults' or even those who created the conferences.  It's the NCAA's fault because that is what they wish.  Have you ever been to a kid's t-ball game in this day and age?  They don't keep score, everyone bats, there are no winners or losers.  It's just the mentality of the world.  Let's not hurt anyone's feelings and let everyone participate.  Trophies for everyone!!!

[Bombers798891]

It's extremely likely that Gallaudet goes undefeated, and it's a shame but likely that they will steal earn a playoff spot.  Hopefully the NCAA does right and let's Hobart have their crack at them instead of facing them off vs. a South Region team based on location.  Hobart has had some tough seedings in the past.  I would love to see them get a better bracket this year with their high national rank.

Steal a spot? They'll be the auto-bid, so that's a spot you were already assuming was going to be gone. Also, if an ECFC team has to make it, Ill take one that has beaten Shenandoah (who beat Hampden-Sydney) and Rochester (by 24) over the ECFC teams of the past.

I think that "stealing" a spot means when a team outside of the top 8 in the east gets a bid over a top 8 team only because they won their conference.

Felony Larceny is when a team outside of the top 20 in the east gets a bid over a top 8 team.

I understand your point, but stealing is such a harsh word, but do I believe there are stronger teams, yes. But they have beaten everyone on their schedule and have beaten the #2 team in the LL and #4 team in the ODAC.

Let's put this in context.

Rochester hasn't had a winning season since 2007. Yes, UR will have a winning season this year, in large part because they got to switch MMA for Alfred State. They're a mediocre program in a mediocre conference.

Shenandoah is 3-4 and still has to go on the road to play 5-2 Randolph-Macon, and has a couple other games against teams with similar W/L records. I don't know much about the ODAC, but this looks like a team that's staring at 5-5, at best.

At the end of the day, there's a chance everyone in the ECFC except Gallaudet finishes with four losses. Running through that schedule unbeaten is not impressive.

[lewdogg11]

It's extremely likely that Gallaudet goes undefeated, and it's a shame but likely that they will steal earn a playoff spot.  Hopefully the NCAA does right and let's Hobart have their crack at them instead of facing them off vs. a South Region team based on location.  Hobart has had some tough seedings in the past.  I would love to see them get a better bracket this year with their high national rank.

Steal a spot? They'll be the auto-bid, so that's a spot you were already assuming was going to be gone. Also, if an ECFC team has to make it, Ill take one that has beaten Shenandoah (who beat Hampden-Sydney) and Rochester (by 24) over the ECFC teams of the past.

I think that "stealing" a spot means when a team outside of the top 8 in the east gets a bid over a top 8 team only because they won their conference.

Felony Larceny is when a team outside of the top 20 in the east gets a bid over a top 8 team.

I understand your point, but stealing is such a harsh word, but do I believe there are stronger teams, yes. But they have beaten everyone on their schedule and have beaten the #2 team in the LL and #4 team in the ODAC.

Let's put this in context.

Rochester hasn't had a winning season since 2007. Yes, UR will have a winning season this year, in large part because they got to switch MMA for Alfred State. They're a mediocre program in a mediocre conference.

Shenandoah is 3-4 and still has to go on the road to play 5-2 Randolph-Macon, and has a couple other games against teams with similar W/L records. I don't know much about the ODAC, but this looks like a team that's staring at 5-5, at best.

At the end of the day, there's a chance everyone in the ECFC except Gallaudet finishes with four losses. Running through that schedule unbeaten is not impressive.

And Kazoo mentioned it somewhere a few days ago...Let's not forget a 10-0 SUNY-Maritime from 2010 who was down 50-0 to Alfred at halftime(ultimately losing 60-0).  Maybe Gallaudet is secretly nasty and we just don't know it yet.  But my money says Hobart puts 70+ on them.

[AUPepBand]

Posted this over on another thread:

On playoff seeding, see 2011.  No meaningful strength in or OOC and 9 game schedule and they were sent to Wesley in the first round.  Perhaps the team was less of a known quantity to the committe than compared with now, but that team was pretty close to this one and just blew a 3td lead in bizarre fashion to RPI.  Maybe they still get a decent seed, but insure wouldn't leave it up to the committee and want to test that theory.

In 2011, these existed:

Kean 9-1
WNE 10-1
Salisbury 9-1
DelVal 10-0
Hobart 7-1

With three weeks to go in 2013, these exist:

Gallaudet 7-0
Hobart 6-0
Framingham State 6-1
Lebanon Valley 6-1
Ithaca 6-1
Merchant Marine 4-1

Odds are low that the other five teams will all get by unscathed, and Hobart's playoff results in 2012 can be used to determine close issues in seeding.  In addition, they beat MMA and the last ECFC team that went undefeated was abused by Alfred and almost didn't even get in through Pool B.  One loss would not considerably devastate seeding this season for Hobart.

Funny thing that year (2010), the ECFC champ was actually "seeded" #3 and was to HOST #6 Alfred (8-2 with losses to RPI and UR) but either hadn't filed paperwork or by some other technicality could not host the NCAAs, so the game was moved to Mayberry. It was 50-0 by halftime and some young fan of the undefeated ECFC champs didn't care much for AU's pep band, which played the Saxons' fight song twice after each TD. The lad was heard to say of the band, "They're not very good. They only know one song and I've never heard it before."

On Saxon Warriors!