East Region Fan Poll

[fulbakdad]

Where the Hell is Salve? 

Just kidding Lew Dog.

[dlippiel]

BTW, if anyone wants to barf a little, go scroll through a few NESCAC pages.  Don't read them obviously, just scroll through. The most verbose ridiculous posting I can ever remember. Book after book after book, and the first line of many responses are like 'Great Post!'  Oy Vay. Different crowd over there!

I have been tempted to post over there periodically, however I would be viewed as a cretin invading their board, so I hold my tongue...and god forbid a I might make a grammatical error..

Dlip will occasionally meander over to the ****ing NESCAC board and post some ish like this...

[NED3Guy]

Guys who post on the NESCAC board get their posts proof read before posting.

Or maybe they have their secretaries type up their posts while they dictate?

All kidding aside,there's some great posts over there. The guy who broke down every playing venue from the visitors standpoint was pretty good.

[AUPepBand]

BTW, if anyone wants to barf a little, go scroll through a few NESCAC pages.  Don't read them obviously, just scroll through. The most verbose ridiculous posting I can ever remember. Book after book after book, and the first line of many responses are like 'Great Post!'  Oy Vay. Different crowd over there!

I have been tempted to post over there periodically, however I would be viewed as a cretin invading their board, so I hold my tongue...and god forbid a I might make a grammatical error..

Been over there and was told that rather than quoting the script of Water Boy, I should be quoting Emerson, Shakespeare, Plato, Bandelaire,  Heidegger and Homer.

Thank God for Google! I was able to find a Homer quote.

[lewdogg11]

I'm actually a little surprised Hobart is not getting more 4-5 rankings than they are.  I know it's only a spot or 2, but they have 1 regular season loss in like 4 years, and if Wesley wasn't part of this poll this year, that loss would be to the #1 team.  I have them at 4 because, let's be serious here, toss the records out the window and who do you like, Hobart vs. Cortland/Albright/The Steve?  I'll give a little leeway on Cortland because Cortland is good every year and is a proven entity, by Albright and The Steve don't really tickle my undercarriage.  Albright has certainly beaten some historically good teams, but those teams are so-so this year.  the Steve really doesn't have a signature win.  Hobart doesn't either, but Hobart shouldn't have to gain reputation points here.  If the playoffs started tomorrow, i'd take Hobart over all 3. 

[Bombers798891]

I'm actually a little surprised Hobart is not getting more 4-5 rankings than they are.  I know it's only a spot or 2, but they have 1 regular season loss in like 4 years, and if Wesley wasn't part of this poll this year, that loss would be to the #1 team.  I have them at 4 because, let's be serious here, toss the records out the window and who do you like, Hobart vs. Cortland/Albright/The Steve?  I'll give a little leeway on Cortland because Cortland is good every year and is a proven entity, by Albright and The Steve don't really tickle my undercarriage.  Albright has certainly beaten some historically good teams, but those teams are so-so this year.  the Steve really doesn't have a signature win.  Hobart doesn't either, but Hobart shouldn't have to gain reputation points here.  If the playoffs started tomorrow, i'd take Hobart over all 3.

I wonder if part of it is simply that because Hobart lost (in an ugly fashion, offensively) to a team they beat in the playoffs last year, we can more easily quantify that Hobart's not as good as they were the year before. Not saying it's right or wrong, just throwing it out there

[ExTartanPlayer]

Albright has certainly beaten some historically good teams, but those teams are so-so this year.

Wait a second.  This is a self-fulfilling thing.  Isn't part of the reason you perceive those teams as "so-so this year" just because they lost to Albright? 

Salisbury went out and outscored their next two opponents 137-21, including a 46-14 win against Montclair State (0-3 team on paper, but the other 2 losses sandwiched around that 46-14 loss to Salisbury are 27-24 to Delaware Valley and 13-7 to #3-in-this-poll Rowan).  Remove the Albright loss and Salisbury looks like normal Salisbury.

Widener is 2-2.  The losses are 24-10 against Rowan and 27-10 against Albright.  Remove the Albright loss and 2-1 Widener with a loss to Rowan is just normal pretty-solid-in-the-MAC Widener.  Again, the only reason you're looking at Widener and saying they're "so-so this year" is because they lost to Albright. 

Lycoming doesn't look so hot this year, admittedly.  I'm fine with calling that just a so-so win.

OK, now let's turn this on its head.  What has Hobart done this year?

- won 29-7 against a Dickinson team that was 3-7 last year and is off to a 1-3 start with a pair of shootout losses to non-contenders

- won 28-17 against Endicott in a game where they gained 204 yards.  The same Framingham State team that you're ****ting on beat Endicott 42-6 and gained 473 yards the week before.  Football isn't linear and comparative scores are not the end-all-be-all, but I think it's ****ing hilarious that you'll take a **** on Framingham (who is just "receiving votes") and then argue Hobart should be higher in the poll with these two results on the board.

- lost 24-6 to what's probably a pretty good Ithaca team.  That's cool and all, but it wasn't an overtime loss or a one-pointer-at-the-buzzer, it was a decisive defeat.  North Central gets that benefit of the doubt for losing 50-49 to Wesley...but against Ithaca, Hobart scored 6 points and gained 159 yards!  Union scored 23 on Ithaca the week before; Alfred scored 18 on them the week after.  Again, comparative scores are imperfect, but this comparison still does not stack up nicely for Hobart's offense.

- won 30-15 against USMMA in a game where they gained 215 yards. 

I know that ordinarily Hobart can play the card of backing off and pulling the first stringers instead of piling on, but that doesn't really fly here.  That game against USMMA was close until the end (23-15 in the 4th until Hobart TD with 4 mins to play).  The Endicott game, similar deal.  Hobart was (edit: meant to say NOT in danger) of losing either game, but it's not like those offensive numbers are depressed because the JV's played the second half...they really are struggling badly on offense.  The teams Hobart has beaten are a combined 3-8 and all have lost by larger margins to teams you think are of lesser quality than Hobart.  For eff's sake, Endicott sandwiched 42-6 losses to Framingham State and 34-9 to St. Lawrence around that sorta-close game with Hobart!  And Albright is the team who has only beaten "so-so this year" competition?

Any argument for Hobart at #4 is based entirely on reputation from years past, not at all what's qualitatively happening on the field this year.

[lewdogg11]

Albright has certainly beaten some historically good teams, but those teams are so-so this year.

Wait a second.  This is a self-fulfilling thing.  Isn't part of the reason you perceive those teams as "so-so this year" just because they lost to Albright? 

Salisbury went out and outscored their next two opponents 137-21, including a 46-14 win against Montclair State (0-3 team on paper, but the other 2 losses sandwiched around that 46-14 loss to Salisbury are 27-24 to Delaware Valley and 13-7 to #3-in-this-poll Rowan).  Remove the Albright loss and Salisbury looks like normal Salisbury.

Widener is 2-2.  The losses are 24-10 against Rowan and 27-10 against Albright.  Remove the Albright loss and 2-1 Widener with a loss to Rowan is just normal pretty-solid-in-the-MAC Widener.  Again, the only reason you're looking at Widener and saying they're "so-so this year" is because they lost to Albright. 

Lycoming doesn't look so hot this year, admittedly.  I'm fine with calling that just a so-so win.

OK, now let's turn this on its head.  What has Hobart done this year?

- won 29-7 against a Dickinson team that was 3-7 last year and is off to a 1-3 start with a pair of shootout losses to non-contenders

- won 28-17 against Endicott in a game where they gained 204 yards.  The same Framingham State team that you're ****ting on beat Endicott 42-6 and gained 473 yards the week before.  Football isn't linear and comparative scores are not the end-all-be-all, but I think it's ****ing hilarious that you'll take a **** on Framingham (who is just "receiving votes") and then argue Hobart should be higher in the poll with these two results on the board.

- lost 24-6 to what's probably a pretty good Ithaca team.  That's cool and all, but it wasn't an overtime loss or a one-pointer-at-the-buzzer, it was a decisive defeat.  North Central gets that benefit of the doubt for losing 50-49 to Wesley...but against Ithaca, Hobart scored 6 points and gained 159 yards!  Union scored 23 on Ithaca the week before; Alfred scored 18 on them the week after.  Again, comparative scores are imperfect, but this comparison still does not stack up nicely for Hobart's offense.

- won 30-15 against USMMA in a game where they gained 215 yards. 

I know that ordinarily Hobart can play the card of backing off and pulling the first stringers instead of piling on, but that doesn't really fly here.  That game against USMMA was close until the end (23-15 in the 4th until Hobart TD with 4 mins to play).  The Endicott game, similar deal.  Hobart was (edit: meant to say NOT in danger) of losing either game, but it's not like those offensive numbers are depressed because the JV's played the second half...they really are struggling badly on offense.  The teams Hobart has beaten are a combined 3-8 and all have lost by larger margins to teams you think are of lesser quality than Hobart.  For eff's sake, Endicott sandwiched 42-6 losses to Framingham State and 34-9 to St. Lawrence around that sorta-close game with Hobart!  And Albright is the team who has only beaten "so-so this year" competition?

Any argument for Hobart at #4 is based entirely on reputation from years past, not at all what's qualitatively happening on the field this year.

You made my point for me though.  I have no idea how good Albright is in the grand scheme of things.  And you can't really use Salisbury's 91 points against a pop-warner team to justify your point.  Hobart hasn't had a bad year in a long time.  I'm not saying Hobart is better, and they certainly haven't played a tough schedule so far, outside of Ithaca who they got smoked by, but I just can't yet put these other teams ahead of them this early on.  I need to see more.  If Hobart loses another and they all continue piling on impressive wins, then i'm on board.  Just don't see it yet.

[bman]

Lots of numbers tossed and good points made.
I know my ranking of Hobart was based on the loss to Ithaca (who I had them rated higher until the loss), and a so-so performance against MMA...
I have followed the MAC for 30 years, and seen multiple games this year...and I still am not sure if Albright is for real...
but I am comfortable where they are placed, and will let the season dictate moves up or down...
I have a friend who's son plays in the MASCAC.  He was not overly impressed having seen Framingham St play in person.  I have tried not to let that affect my opinion, but I will watch video in the next few weeks....

[Boxer7806]

I'll bite...WNEC and Framingham would likely both lose to Christopher Newport, RPI, Delaware Valley, and St. Lawrence. And probably Utica and Rochacha too. There. I said it.

yeeuup. Both solid teams though

I agree. They are the top of the New England teams for sure(and probably not even close) and they can certainly compete. I just can't justify them in my top 10 until the beat someone. Unfortunately Union and Springfield don't count as they aren't cracking anyone's top 20's in the East.

I'm a NEFC / MASCAC guy and I agree. I think Framingham is better than WNEC and has played a more challenging schedule to date. But with that defense I wouldn't put them in the top ten. In fact I think after Wesley, Ithaca, and Rowan, teams 4-15 are an absolute crapshoot. If they all played each other in a 9 team conference, there would be no undefeated team and the winner would probably have 2-3 losses and the worst of the bunch would scrape together at least 2-3 wins.

[Boxer7806]

Lots of numbers tossed and good points made.
I know my ranking of Hobart was based on the loss to Ithaca (who I had them rated higher until the loss), and a so-so performance against MMA...
I have followed the MAC for 30 years, and seen multiple games this year...and I still am not sure if Albright is for real...
but I am comfortable where they are placed, and will let the season dictate moves up or down...
I have a friend who's son plays in the MASCAC.  He was not overly impressed having seen Framingham St play in person.  I have tried not to let that affect my opinion, but I will watch video in the next few weeks....

I've watched 2 Framingham games this year, Cortland and Endicott. The offense is for real. The special teams and defense is not.

I find it tough not to be impressed by a team that hasn't lost a MASAC game in 3 years now, even if the conference does suck.

[Bombers798891]

I'd kind of like to weigh in on this Hobart-Ithaca thing.

Frankly, the only difference between the two teams I saw is that Ithaca's turnovers occurred at a slightly better spot on the field than Hobart's. Those two teams are a lot closer than the score of the game indicates. (especially if Hobart's starting QB, who missed the Ithaca game, returns) If you think Ithaca's a solid #2, Hobart should not be far behind, IMO.

[AUPepBand]

Lots of numbers tossed and good points made.
I know my ranking of Hobart was based on the loss to Ithaca (who I had them rated higher until the loss), and a so-so performance against MMA...
I have followed the MAC for 30 years, and seen multiple games this year...and I still am not sure if Albright is for real...
but I am comfortable where they are placed, and will let the season dictate moves up or down...
I have a friend who's son plays in the MASCAC.  He was not overly impressed having seen Framingham St play in person.  I have tried not to let that affect my opinion, but I will watch video in the next few weeks....

I've watched 2 Framingham games this year, Cortland and Endicott. The offense is for real. The special teams and defense is not.

I find it tough not to be impressed by a team that hasn't lost a MASAC game in 3 years now, even if the conference does suck.

Pep would like to suggest that the Framingham State and Ithaca College presidents call an emergency meeting to negotiate a merger of these institutions with the express purpose of combining their football teams in order to create a 2015 Beast in the East that will heretofore take down any purple power in its way. Just imagine what the RamBombers could do to change the complexion of D3 football!!



Long Live the RamBombers!!

[ExTartanPlayer]

Hobart hasn't had a bad year in a long time.  I'm not saying Hobart is better, and they certainly haven't played a tough schedule so far, outside of Ithaca who they got smoked by, but I just can't yet put these other teams ahead of them this early on.  I need to see more.  If Hobart loses another and they all continue piling on impressive wins, then i'm on board.  Just don't see it yet.

Hey, that's cool.  We're allowed to have different opinions.  I just don't like the "Albright's beaten teams that are usually good, but they probably aren't good this year" rationale because (like I said) the only thing telling you those teams are down from their usual standards is that they lost to Albright.

I also couldn't resist the irony of you crapping on Framingham State a few posts back with this...

I'll bite...WNEC and Framingham would likely both lose to Christopher Newport, RPI, Delaware Valley, and St. Lawrence. And probably Utica and Rochacha too. There. I said it.

...and then a few posts later you're asking why Hobart isn't getting more #4 votes when Framingham totally blitzed Endicott (on the road) while Hobart scrapped through a very, very "blah" win against that same team one week later (at Hobart).  It's not like that was one fluky game that I'm cherry-picking, either; that game profile has been pretty representative of Hobart this year. 

Admittedly, Framingham is lacking a signature win over the last couple of years, but there's plenty of evidence by now that they're competitive. 

2014: 10-1, lost 31-21 to NJAC champ Rowan in regular season

2013: 9-2, lost 29-19 to NJAC champ Rowan in regular season and 20-17 at Empire 8 champion Ithaca in the first round

2012: 10-2, lost the opener (badly) to Endicott and lost 20-19 to NJAC champ Cortland State in the first round

Sure, it would be nice if they actually won one of those, but they're losing by a point, a field goal, etc to the NJAC and Empire 8 champions.  I'm amazed at how the NEFC struggles from the early 2000's still color some of the perceptions here that the New England teams can't compete with....well, let's read this again:

I'll bite...WNEC and Framingham would likely both lose to Christopher Newport, RPI, Delaware Valley, and St. Lawrence. And probably Utica and Rochacha too. There. I said it.

I wonder what would happen if Framingham played one of those teams.  If only we had...oh, wait a minute:

http://www.d3football.com/seasons/2014/boxscores/20141122_l5xd.xml

I am amazed how much the NEFC's early-2000's awfulness has permanently colored the opinions here.  Even when New England teams actually do beat someone that has your favored status, you pretend it didn't happen or come up with some excuse for why it doesn't count.  I'm not talking about ranking Framingham in the top 5, for heck's sake, but I'm amazed that you can sit there and keep saying that the next 4 or 5 teams outside the top 10 would "likely" beat Framingham - especially when FSU beat one of the teams you named just last year!

[lewdogg11]

You're a freaking spaz dude. I never said 'Albright isn't good'. I never said Framingham or WNEC are not good. I actually said the opposite.  I said I think they can compete but at the moment I'd take the other teams I mentioned head to head.

And last year's ECAC game?  Framingham, gods gift to earth last year who got 'screwed' by the NCAA barely squeaked by a mediocre RPI team in a great game. Doesn't the 6-5 vs 10-1 record in that box score stick out at all?  RPI was only playing that game because no one else did the paperwork!