East Region Fan Poll

[Bombers798891]

I'm amazed at how the NEFC struggles from the early 2000's still color some of the perceptions here that the New England teams can't compete with...

Because nothing says "respect our conference as a legitimate threat outside of New England" like your recent signature moments being three first-round losses in the NCAAs and a few wins in the regular season over mediocre teams? 

[Boxer7806]

I'm amazed at how the NEFC struggles from the early 2000's still color some of the perceptions here that the New England teams can't compete with...

Because nothing says "respect our conference as a legitimate threat outside of New England" like your recent signature moments being three first-round losses in the NCAAs and a few wins in the regular season over mediocre teams? 

I don't think he saying they are a "legitimate threat", just saying that they can compete at a much higher level then most give them credit for. I think Framingham does get due respect here because at least they have competed and SCHEDULED good competition, even if the wins were lacking. Both those Rowans games I think they were up in the fourth quarters before losing, as well as that Ithaca playoff game. I agree, you can't be legitimate as you say without wins in those games against quality competition.

But I'm with Tartan, I don't think Hobart should be higher than 4-5 in my opinion. That offense just leaves a lot to be desired, even with a very good defense, but a defense that still is not as good as years past.

Lew pointed out he would drop them if they lost another game and the other teams kept winning, but who would that be from the Liberty League??? They very well could run the table and we would know none the better of how good they are compared to the rest of the East to playoff time.

[Bombers798891]

I'm amazed at how the NEFC struggles from the early 2000's still color some of the perceptions here that the New England teams can't compete with...

Because nothing says "respect our conference as a legitimate threat outside of New England" like your recent signature moments being three first-round losses in the NCAAs and a few wins in the regular season over mediocre teams? 

I don't think he saying they are a "legitimate threat", just saying that they can compete at a much higher level then most give them credit for. I think Framingham does get due respect here

I think they do too. But I also think they're used to represent "The New England Teams" as a whole in a lot of these arguments. There's a good argument to be made that they're the exception, not the rule.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I don't think he saying they are a "legitimate threat", just saying that they can compete at a much higher level then most give them credit for. I think Framingham does get due respect here because at least they have competed and SCHEDULED good competition, even if the wins were lacking. Both those Rowans games I think they were up in the fourth quarters before losing, as well as that Ithaca playoff game. I agree, you can't be legitimate as you say without wins in those games against quality competition.

Probably said it better than I could, I had started trying to write a reply here and just figured I'd call it quits, but this is where I was trying to go.  I don't think Framingham is a legitimate threat to win three playoff games, but is it really so ridiculous to give them a 10th place vote in the ERFP?  Lew stated the opinion that the next five teams plus Utica and Rochester are all better than Framingham...even with Framingham having beaten one of those teams last year and just played Cortland (#4 in the poll) to a game that literally came down to the final play?  They're not only not worthy of a 10th place vote, but they're not even in the top 15?

And Bombers, saw your post late but you are correct to point this out; I was not talking about Framingham representing the "New England" teams as a whole, but themselves alone.  Basically, I think they are being punished for the NEFC's past sins with comments like Lew's.

[lewdogg11]

I don't think he saying they are a "legitimate threat", just saying that they can compete at a much higher level then most give them credit for. I think Framingham does get due respect here because at least they have competed and SCHEDULED good competition, even if the wins were lacking. Both those Rowans games I think they were up in the fourth quarters before losing, as well as that Ithaca playoff game. I agree, you can't be legitimate as you say without wins in those games against quality competition.

Probably said it better than I could, I had started trying to write a reply here and just figured I'd call it quits, but this is where I was trying to go.  I don't think Framingham is a legitimate threat to win three playoff games, but is it really so ridiculous to give them a 10th place vote in the ERFP?  Lew stated the opinion that the next five teams plus Utica and Rochester are all better than Framingham...even with Framingham having beaten one of those teams last year and just played Cortland (#4 in the poll) to a game that literally came down to the final play?  They're not only not worthy of a 10th place vote, but they're not even in the top 15?

And Bombers, saw your post late but you are correct to point this out; I was not talking about Framingham representing the "New England" teams as a whole, but themselves alone.  Basically, I think they are being punished for the NEFC's past sins with comments like Lew's.

I didn't say they were better you frickin banana head!   I said I would pick them if they were going to play Head to Head.  You had too much of that beetlejuice powder sprinkled on your head dude.  I can't even deal with people like you.  If I said the sky was blue, you'd tell everyone I said it was red. 

Boxer, I also didn't say Hobart should be above 4 or 5.  I was the only one with them above 6 and I said i was surprised, then banana-land boy came out and said I hate Albright worse than pants. 

If anything, I am beginning to question some of the educations of the New England team people here.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I didn't say they were better you frickin banana head!   I said I would pick them if they were going to play Head to Head.

Um, wut?

How am I supposed to interpret "picking a team if they were going to play Head to Head" then?

[ExTartanPlayer]

Boxer, I also didn't say Hobart should be above 4 or 5.  I was the only one with them above 6 and I said i was surprised, then banana-land boy came out and said I hate Albright worse than pants. 

See, here's how rational discussion works:

You were surprised that Hobart was not ranked higher by some voters.  You state that you would pick Hobart today, head-to-head, against Albright.  That's cool.

I disagreed with your initial assertion.  I present the teams' respective game results from this year, which pretty relevant to a discussion of which team is better, no? 

Hobart has three "blah" wins and a loss to a very good team.  Albright has three wins of arguably (in fact, likely) superior quality.  I felt that your dismissiveness of Albright's wins for this season was a little off-base.  Other than losing to Albright, those teams haven't really done anything out of line with their norms, although Lyco is definitely not looking so hot. 

You are welcome to interpret that data differently than I do, that's fine.  But I think it was kinda reasonable to look at the teams' results from this year in a discussion of which team is better.  I don't know why any of this makes me a banana-head.  It's all relevant information.

[Bombers798891]

I don't think he saying they are a "legitimate threat", just saying that they can compete at a much higher level then most give them credit for. I think Framingham does get due respect here because at least they have competed and SCHEDULED good competition, even if the wins were lacking. Both those Rowans games I think they were up in the fourth quarters before losing, as well as that Ithaca playoff game. I agree, you can't be legitimate as you say without wins in those games against quality competition.

Probably said it better than I could, I had started trying to write a reply here and just figured I'd call it quits, but this is where I was trying to go.  I don't think Framingham is a legitimate threat to win three playoff games, but is it really so ridiculous to give them a 10th place vote in the ERFP?  Lew stated the opinion that the next five teams plus Utica and Rochester are all better than Framingham...even with Framingham having beaten one of those teams last year and just played Cortland (#4 in the poll) to a game that literally came down to the final play?  They're not only not worthy of a 10th place vote, but they're not even in the top 15?

And Bombers, saw your post late but you are correct to point this out; I was not talking about Framingham representing the "New England" teams as a whole, but themselves alone.  Basically, I think they are being punished for the NEFC's past sins with comments like Lew's.

About this bolded part:

Saying the Cortland game "Came down to the final play" is technically true, but probably a mischaracterization of the game as a whole, considering the rams trailed by double-digits for most of the game, and to win on that final play Framingham essentially needed a 60-yard return TD. The play by play says Cortland took a timeout with 18 seconds to go, so the Framingham return guy got the ball with what, 10-12 seconds left?

I'm also not sure what last year's RPI-Framingham result (in a glorified exhibition) has to do with anything this year. We have four weeks of data. Last year is irrelevant.

Ultimately, Framingham could be in the top 15...they could also easily not. Watch:

Utica could be ahead of Framingham because they looked better against Cortland. Rochester could be ahead of Framingham because they also beat RPI last year. RPI is better than Framingham because when they played last year RPI had five touchdowns and a FG in regulation to Framingham's five touchdowns and extra points/2 pt conversions are random.

It's really not that hard when you get down to splitting hairs—which is what we're doing—to come to whatever conclusion suits you

[lewdogg11]

Boxer, I also didn't say Hobart should be above 4 or 5.  I was the only one with them above 6 and I said i was surprised, then banana-land boy came out and said I hate Albright worse than pants. 

See, here's how rational discussion works:

You were surprised that Hobart was not ranked higher by some voters.  You state that you would pick Hobart today, head-to-head, against Albright.  That's cool.

I disagreed with your initial assertion.  I present the teams' respective game results from this year, which pretty relevant to a discussion of which team is better, no? 

Hobart has three "blah" wins and a loss to a very good team.  Albright has three wins of arguably (in fact, likely) superior quality.  I felt that your dismissiveness of Albright's wins for this season was a little off-base.  Other than losing to Albright, those teams haven't really done anything out of line with their norms, although Lyco is definitely not looking so hot. 

You are welcome to interpret that data differently than I do, that's fine.  But I think it was kinda reasonable to look at the teams' results from this year in a discussion of which team is better.  I don't know why any of this makes me a banana-head.  It's all relevant information.

I don't care that you disagree.  You're allowed, and you make decent points.  You're a banana head because you take my words and turn them into diarrhea that was never said. 

[Boxer7806]

I don't think he saying they are a "legitimate threat", just saying that they can compete at a much higher level then most give them credit for. I think Framingham does get due respect here because at least they have competed and SCHEDULED good competition, even if the wins were lacking. Both those Rowans games I think they were up in the fourth quarters before losing, as well as that Ithaca playoff game. I agree, you can't be legitimate as you say without wins in those games against quality competition.

Probably said it better than I could, I had started trying to write a reply here and just figured I'd call it quits, but this is where I was trying to go.  I don't think Framingham is a legitimate threat to win three playoff games, but is it really so ridiculous to give them a 10th place vote in the ERFP?  Lew stated the opinion that the next five teams plus Utica and Rochester are all better than Framingham...even with Framingham having beaten one of those teams last year and just played Cortland (#4 in the poll) to a game that literally came down to the final play?  They're not only not worthy of a 10th place vote, but they're not even in the top 15?

And Bombers, saw your post late but you are correct to point this out; I was not talking about Framingham representing the "New England" teams as a whole, but themselves alone.  Basically, I think they are being punished for the NEFC's past sins with comments like Lew's.

I didn't say they were better you frickin banana head!   I said I would pick them if they were going to play Head to Head.  You had too much of that beetlejuice powder sprinkled on your head dude.  I can't even deal with people like you.  If I said the sky was blue, you'd tell everyone I said it was red. 

Boxer, I also didn't say Hobart should be above 4 or 5.  I was the only one with them above 6 and I said i was surprised, then banana-land boy came out and said I hate Albright worse than pants. 

If anything, I am beginning to question some of the educations of the New England team people here.

I didn't say you did either. I was just referencing your point that you had them at 4 and I would not have them above that because of their poor offense to date. I personally think they should be at 5, mostly based on reputation of years past and because as Bombers said, the Ithaca game was closer than the score indicates and Ithaca seems to be a top 3 team in the east as of right now.

[lewdogg11]

I don't think he saying they are a "legitimate threat", just saying that they can compete at a much higher level then most give them credit for. I think Framingham does get due respect here because at least they have competed and SCHEDULED good competition, even if the wins were lacking. Both those Rowans games I think they were up in the fourth quarters before losing, as well as that Ithaca playoff game. I agree, you can't be legitimate as you say without wins in those games against quality competition.

Probably said it better than I could, I had started trying to write a reply here and just figured I'd call it quits, but this is where I was trying to go.  I don't think Framingham is a legitimate threat to win three playoff games, but is it really so ridiculous to give them a 10th place vote in the ERFP?  Lew stated the opinion that the next five teams plus Utica and Rochester are all better than Framingham...even with Framingham having beaten one of those teams last year and just played Cortland (#4 in the poll) to a game that literally came down to the final play?  They're not only not worthy of a 10th place vote, but they're not even in the top 15?

And Bombers, saw your post late but you are correct to point this out; I was not talking about Framingham representing the "New England" teams as a whole, but themselves alone.  Basically, I think they are being punished for the NEFC's past sins with comments like Lew's.

I didn't say they were better you frickin banana head!   I said I would pick them if they were going to play Head to Head.  You had too much of that beetlejuice powder sprinkled on your head dude.  I can't even deal with people like you.  If I said the sky was blue, you'd tell everyone I said it was red. 

Boxer, I also didn't say Hobart should be above 4 or 5.  I was the only one with them above 6 and I said i was surprised, then banana-land boy came out and said I hate Albright worse than pants. 

If anything, I am beginning to question some of the educations of the New England team people here.

I didn't say you did either. I was just referencing your point that you had them at 4 and I would not have them above that because of their poor offense to date. I personally think they should be at 5, mostly based on reputation of years past and because as Bombers said, the Ithaca game was closer than the score indicates and Ithaca seems to be a top 3 team in the east as of right now.

I know you didn't, I just had to make it clear so someone else didn't run off and regurgitate something I never said. I think Hobart at 4 or 5 is fair. I'm not willing to go lower yet.

[wesleydad]

The east is filled with good/ok teams that on any given Saturday almost anyone of them can beat another one and they keep doing so.  There is a big gap between Wesley and the rest.  I really have no idea who is 2.  I have Rowan but they can't score enough.  Albright looks good but the Mac just looks ok.  Cortland escapes every week and gives up too many points.  I moved Salisbury up, more on gut feeling than anything else.  It is a crap shoot trying to figure out who to put at the bottom of the top 10.  On the national stage I have a better feeling about Wesley after watching UWW struggle to beat Platteville.  The win over NCC looks better to me since NCC lead Platteville 28 - 7 in the 4th.  The defense has to improve for sure.  Who knows, certainly not me!!!

[Bartman]

The east is filled with good/ok teams that on any given Saturday almost anyone of them can beat another one and they keep doing so.  There is a big gap between Wesley and the rest.  I really have no idea who is 2.  I have Rowan but they can't score enough.  Albright looks good but the Mac just looks ok.  Cortland escapes every week and gives up too many points.  I moved Salisbury up, more on gut feeling than anything else.  It is a crap shoot trying to figure out who to put at the bottom of the top 10.  On the national stage I have a better feeling about Wesley after watching UWW struggle to beat Platteville.  The win over NCC looks better to me since NCC lead Platteville 28 - 7 in the 4th.  The defense has to improve for sure.  Who knows, certainly not me!!!

If Wesley were not in the East, it would be a cluster@#$% for #1. Watched parts of Rowan game and although they had a nice comeback that was an underwhelming performance...Ithaca loses to a pumped up Utica team that frankly looked like the better team today, and Cortland needs to make sure they have the ball last with that defense. Albright has separated from Stevenson in my mind as the Steve squeaked by Kings today. So,  don't know who is No.2, but happy that Hobart finally played Bartball today and think they will move up the ranks over the next few weeks as Oline is clicking and 2nd string QB finally played with confidence. As a plug for LL, both St.Lawrence and RPI looked very strong today.

[wally_wabash]

The east is filled with good/ok teams that on any given Saturday almost anyone of them can beat another one and they keep doing so.  There is a big gap between Wesley and the rest.  I really have no idea who is 2.  I have Rowan but they can't score enough.  Albright looks good but the Mac just looks ok.  Cortland escapes every week and gives up too many points.  I moved Salisbury up, more on gut feeling than anything else.  It is a crap shoot trying to figure out who to put at the bottom of the top 10.  On the national stage I have a better feeling about Wesley after watching UWW struggle to beat Platteville.  The win over NCC looks better to me since NCC lead Platteville 28 - 7 in the 4th.  The defense has to improve for sure.  Who knows, certainly not me!!!

NCC trailed Millikin 21-14 in the 4th so...

My hunch is that Wesley is the best team over here, but I'm interested to see them play through the NJAC before quantifying any gap between the Wolverines and the rest of the entire region.

[@d3jason]

I'm thinking 2 could be Salisbury. Guess we'll see next week against Rowan. Yes I know they lost to Albright, but they did lead 23-3 and missed an 18-yd FG at the end of that game. That option attack is definitely harder to defend later in the year.