East Region Fan Poll

[Jonny Utah]

If there is one thing we learned from The Wire, not messing with the Stevedores is one of them.  Never underestimate the Steves.


WNEC just hasn't played enough good/common opponents to put them in the top 10 I agree, although if you gave any other East team besides maybe Wesley the same schedule, the results would probably be the same, with maybe even a loss to SC.

Alfred hasn't had a "breather" on its regular season schedule, at least in Pep's mind, in at least ten years. The only time Pep went into a game thinking the Saxons would easily win was, ironically, AU's NCAA first round game against an undefeated SUNY-Maritime in 2010. Even a year ago, last place Hartwick beat Pep's Saxons, while 8th place Frostburg State handed the AQ Bombers one of their two conference losses.

And, likewise, Pep doesn't think the Saxons have been looked upon by other Empire 8 teams as an "easy win" for at least as long. Pep would argue that the Saxons would likely put up similar scores as WNEC were they playing in the NEFC. And Pep believes his Saxons are "middle of the pack" in the Empire 8....which means they could be anywhere from #1 to #9!!!

Alfred, especially playing there has always been taken seriously by the bombers.  I remember only St. Lawrence being the only team that you knew was probably going to be an easy win, but every other team Ithaca played in the 1990s was pretty solid. 

[AUKaz00]

Week 6 Fan Poll

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Wesley ( 7 )	5-0	70	1	vs. Kean
2   Albright	5-0	62	4	at FDU-Florham
3   Salisbury	3-1	54	8	vs. William Paterson
4   Ithaca	4-1	46	5	vs. Brockport State
5   Rowan	4-1	44	2	vs. Southern Virginia
6   Cortland State	5-1	29	3	vs. #7 Alfred
7   Alfred	4-1	17	9	at #6 Cortland State
8   Delaware Valley	5-1	14	NR	Open Date
9   Western New England	5-0	11	NR	at Maine Maritime
10  St. Lawrence	5-1	10	NR	Open Date

Dropping Out:
Hobart
Stevenson
Framingham State
Utica


Also Receiving votes:               
Framingham State 9
Stevenson 7
Buffalo State 6
Utica 6
                     
            
Voting Distribution:            

Wesley (1,1,1,1,1,1,1)
Albright (2,2,2,2,2,3,2)
Salisbury (3,3,3,4,3,4,3)
Ithaca (5,7,6,3,4,2,7)
Rowan (4,5,4,5,5,6,4)
Cortland State (6,9,7,6,7,7,6)
Alfred (9,6,NR,7,NR,5,NR)
Delaware Valley (8,7,NR,NR,6,NR,9)
Western New England (10,NR,5,10,9,10,NR)
St. Lawrence (7,10,9,9,10,NR,NR)
Framingham State (NR,NR,8,8,8,NR,NR)
Stevenson (NR,8,NR,NR,NR,8,10)
Buffalo State (NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,5)
Utica (NR,NR,10,NR,NR,9,8)


Key Matchups:
#7 Alfred at #6 Cortland State

[Bombers798891]

1. Alfred hasn't had a "breather" on its regular season schedule, at least in Pep's mind, in at least ten years.

And, likewise, Pep doesn't think the Saxons have been looked upon by other Empire 8 teams as an "easy win" for at least as long. Pep would argue that the Saxons would likely put up similar scores as WNEC were they playing in the NEFC. And Pep believes his Saxons are "middle of the pack" in the Empire 8....which means they could be anywhere from #1 to #9!!!

1. That's only because you respect other teams too much to admit that they're lousy. If you didn't think Norwich (1-23 in the E8 its last four seasons) was a breather, you're either WAY too nice or not being honest. And the Saxons had their fair share of Husson/Mass-Dartmouth/FDU Florham games

2. Alfred's been a consistent good/very good team in the E8 for a very long time, though they regressed a bit last year.

[lewdogg11]

Week 6 Fan Poll

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Wesley ( 7 )	5-0	70	1	vs. Kean
2   Albright	5-0	62	4	at FDU-Florham
3   Salisbury	3-1	54	8	vs. William Paterson
4   Ithaca	4-1	46	5	vs. Brockport State
5   Rowan	4-1	44	2	vs. Southern Virginia
6   Cortland State	5-1	29	3	vs. #7 Alfred
7   Alfred	4-1	17	9	at #6 Cortland State
8   Delaware Valley	5-1	14	NR	Open Date
9   Western New England	5-0	11	NR	at Maine Maritime
10  St. Lawrence	5-1	10	NR	Open Date

Dropping Out:
Hobart
Stevenson
Framingham State
Utica


Also Receiving votes:               
Framingham State 9
Stevenson 7
Buffalo State 6
Utica 6
                     
            
Voting Distribution:            

Wesley (1,1,1,1,1,1,1)
Albright (2,2,2,2,2,3,2)
Salisbury (3,3,3,4,3,4,3)
Ithaca (5,7,6,3,4,2,7)
Rowan (4,5,4,5,5,6,4)
Cortland State (6,9,7,6,7,7,6)
Alfred (9,6,NR,7,NR,5,NR)
Delaware Valley (8,7,NR,NR,6,NR,9)
Western New England (10,NR,5,10,9,10,NR)
St. Lawrence (7,10,9,9,10,NR,NR)
Framingham State (NR,NR,8,8,8,NR,NR)
Stevenson (NR,8,NR,NR,NR,8,10)
Buffalo State (NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,5)
Utica (NR,NR,10,NR,NR,9,8)


Key Matchups:
#7 Alfred at #6 Cortland State

I'm ok with the tallies, but it's weird seeing Western NE and Buff St. getting #5 votes.  WNE is more of a feeling so people can actually defend it, more than anything because there's no evidence against it either, but Buff St lost to Alfred and Mo'Ville and that voter didn't rank either of those teams.  Kind of tough to defend IMO.  Especially getting NO other votes.  Buff St. has 1 quality win and it's against a team without a defense.  Just strange.

[lewdogg11]

Not that I can judge because everyone is busy and has real lives and families and jobs to worry about, but sometimes I feel like some voters put time into their picks and others just throw crap against a wall and mail it in.

[Jonny Utah]

Not that I can judge because everyone is busy and has real lives and families and jobs to worry about, but sometimes I feel like some voters put time into their picks and others just throw crap against a wall and mail it in.

There is also someone who ranked Alfred over Ithaca, which really doesn't make too much sense if they are both 4-1.

[jknezek]

Something similar happened in the west region last week. It was interesting watching him try to defend it as "wait until Pacific plays Linfield tough! Nothing else matters but I know that will happen."

Linfield won 77-10, which was worse than most of us thought it would be but clearly proved putting Pacific 5 or 6 was extremely speculative...

[jmcozenlaw]

DelVal just beat Stevenson. Both are one loss teams. Somebody placed Stevenson at 8 with DelVal unranked. Interesting 

[Bombers798891]

The Buff State at 5 thing is just bad. Nothing personal, because I don't know the person. But it's objectively a bad ranking.

There is no objective way they can be ahead of Alfred. Not only did Buffalo State lose to Alfred, they got blown out by the same Morrisville State team Alfred just beat

[D3MAFAN]

I was that voter that had WNE at #5. I think they are playing at a high level and are beating the teams in convincing fashion. They beat teams that other teams either struggled with or lost to (i.e. Springfield and Union). Also, I was shock to see Salisbury ranked behind Rowan on DIII, I believe I have Albright, Salisbury, and Rowan in that order. I got to watch a bit of the Rowan vs. Salisbury game. Was impressed with Rowan RB, he is really that good. I still have Cortland up there although they lost. I think Framingham State can play with anyone with their offense. Then Stevenson and Del Val, I think Stevenson wins that game 7 times out of 10 on a neutral field.

[lewdogg11]

I was that voter that had WNE at #5. I think they are playing at a high level and are beating the teams in convincing fashion. They beat teams that other teams either struggled with or lost to (i.e. Springfield and Union). Also, I was shock to see Salisbury ranked behind Rowan on DIII, I believe I have Albright, Salisbury, and Rowan in that order. I got to watch a bit of the Rowan vs. Salisbury game. Was impressed with Rowan RB, he is really that good. I still have Cortland up there although they lost. I think Framingham State can play with anyone with their offense. Then Stevenson and Del Val, I think Stevenson wins that game 7 times out of 10 on a neutral field.

I don't agree with WNE at 5 personally, but I have no reason to disagree with you ranking them there because there's nothing to really knock them down over, other than their bottom dweller  schedule.  But they have won every single game in appropriate fashion so at the end of the season, you might be right.  At the very least there's no evidence THIS YEAR that you can't rank them there right now.  Buff St on the other hand....

[ExTartanPlayer]

So there are a couple of rankings right now that are tough but defensible.  We've got a whole bunch of 1 and 2 loss teams that have all beaten one of each other and lost to someone else in the party.

Del Val / Stevenson is one example.  Del Val just beat Stevenson h2h, and normally I am a strict believe in teams with the same record and h2h result adhering to that h2h result.  But, Del Val also lost to a Wilkes team that is 1-5 (their only win came against Del Val).  You can at least make the case that Stevenson's overall body of work vs. Del Val's overall body of work makes the decision difficult.  (I mean, imagine if WNE had lost to Union)

The Empire 8 teams are another tough nut to figure.  There are a ton of Cortland-beats-Utica-beats-Ithaca-beats-Alfred-beats-Buffalo State-beats-Cortland chains here.  I can understand that some of these are tough to disentangle...but there are some things that should make it obvious.  Buffalo State, for example, has a win over Cortland, but then has two losses, including a loss to someone not even in this team photo (Morrisville State).  That bad loss should be enough to knock them out of this conversation.  If you just have one loss, against someone else who's "in the conversation" here, and can also claim at least one WIN over someone in the conversation, I think an argument can be made to rank those teams in pretty much any order.  But that second loss, against a team that's not in the discussion at all, ought to knock you down a peg.  Buff State > Cortland just by h2h result is a ranking that only works without mitigating evidence to the contrary.

[AUPepBand]

I was that voter that had WNE at #5. I think they are playing at a high level and are beating the teams in convincing fashion. They beat teams that other teams either struggled with or lost to (i.e. Springfield and Union). Also, I was shock to see Salisbury ranked behind Rowan on DIII, I believe I have Albright, Salisbury, and Rowan in that order. I got to watch a bit of the Rowan vs. Salisbury game. Was impressed with Rowan RB, he is really that good. I still have Cortland up there although they lost. I think Framingham State can play with anyone with their offense. Then Stevenson and Del Val, I think Stevenson wins that game 7 times out of 10 on a neutral field.

I don't agree with WNE at 5 personally, but I have no reason to disagree with you ranking them there because there's nothing to really knock them down over, other than their bottom dweller  schedule.  But they have won every single game in appropriate fashion so at the end of the season, you might be right.  At the very least there's no evidence THIS YEAR that you can't rank them there right now.  Buff St on the other hand....

+K Love that picture....gosh, Pep's got a pumpkin on the front porch, perhaps he'll go carve it up!

[Bombers798891]

The Empire 8 teams are another tough nut to figure.  There are a ton of Cortland-beats-Utica-beats-Ithaca-beats-Alfred-beats-Buffalo State-beats-Cortland chains here.  I can understand that some of these are tough to disentangle...but there are some things that should make it obvious.  Buffalo State, for example, has a win over Cortland, but then has two losses, including a loss to someone not even in this team photo (Morrisville State).  That bad loss should be enough to knock them out of this conversation.  If you just have one loss, against someone else who's "in the conversation" here, and can also claim at least one WIN over someone in the conversation, I think an argument can be made to rank those teams in pretty much any order.  But that second loss, against a team that's not in the discussion at all, ought to knock you down a peg.  Buff State > Cortland just by h2h result is a ranking that only works without mitigating evidence to the contrary.

I could see (I guess) Buff State being ahead of Cortland. They do have the H2H win, they both beat Fisher, though Buff State did it more impressively. The two pieces of shared evidence both go in Buff State's favor. I could see someone believing that Cortland's repeated narrow escapes just indicate that the team's not as good as their record. It's flimsy, but it's there.

It's Buff State over Alfred and (to a lesser extent) Ithaca that make no sense. It simply defies logic

[AUPepBand]

1. Alfred hasn't had a "breather" on its regular season schedule, at least in Pep's mind, in at least ten years.

And, likewise, Pep doesn't think the Saxons have been looked upon by other Empire 8 teams as an "easy win" for at least as long. Pep would argue that the Saxons would likely put up similar scores as WNEC were they playing in the NEFC. And Pep believes his Saxons are "middle of the pack" in the Empire 8....which means they could be anywhere from #1 to #9!!!

1. That's only because you respect other teams too much to admit that they're lousy. If you didn't think Norwich (1-23 in the E8 its last four seasons) was a breather, you're either WAY too nice or not being honest. And the Saxons had their fair share of Husson/Mass-Dartmouth/FDU Florham games

2. Alfred's been a consistent good/very good team in the E8 for a very long time, though they regressed a bit last year.

You're right, Norwich was a breather...after Garcon went west. Husson was a pushover when Gabby excused himself for a few years, and Pep would have been greatly disappointed had the Saxons faltered against FDU Florham or Dartmouth.