East Region Fan Poll

[UfanBill]

Week 7 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1t  Brockport State ( 3 )	6-0	47	1t	vs. Hartwick
1t  Delaware Valley ( 2 )	7-0	47	1t	Open Date
3   Wesley	5-1	41	3	vs. Rowan
4   Frostburg State	5-1	35	4	vs. Montclair State
5   Springfield	7-0	28	7	vs. Catholic
6   Salisbury	5-1	25	8	vs. Southern Virginia
7   Alfred	5-1	15	5	vs. RPI
8t  Albright	5-1	6	9	at Stevenson
8t  Plymouth State	6-1	6	NR	at Massachusetts Maritime
10t Framingham State	5-1	5	6	vs. Westfield State
10t Hobart	5-2	5	NR	at Union

Dropping Out:
Christopher Newport
Stevenson


Also Receiving votes:               
Christopher Newport 4
Trinity 4
Widener 4
Cortland State 2
Western Connecticut 1
                     
            
Voting Distribution:            

Brockport State (1,2,1,1,3)
Delaware Valley (2,1,2,2,1)
Wesley (3,3,3,3,2)
Frostburg State (4,4,4,4,4)
Springfield (5,6,6,5,5)
Salisbury (6,5,5,8,6)
Alfred (7,9,8,6,10)
Albright (NR,NR,9,7,NR)
Plymouth State (9,NR,NR,NR,7)
Framingham State (10,NR,NR,10,8)
Hobart (NR,8,NR,9,NR)
Christopher Newport (8,10,NR,NR,NR)
Trinity (NR,NR,7,NR,NR)
Widener (NR,7,NR,NR,NR)
Cortland State (NR,NR,NR,NR,9)
Western Connecticut (NR,NR,10,NR,NR)

OK, Just a rant here. I read this board with great interest and my disagreement with some pollsters who rank MAC or NJAC third or fourth place teams every week is hard for me to keep quiet about. But that's not my issue here. As a Union fan I was anxious to see how many votes the 6-1 Liberty League leading Dutchman might receive....ZERO...nobodies interested... Alright, fellow LL member Hobart continues to get support. They earned it...LAST YEAR. Union plays Hobart this week so who's better this year will be determined on the field. I see one pollster thinks Western Connecticut deserves votes ahead of Union. Sure they're 5-1 but they lost to Mass. Dartmouth and speaking of last year, Union beat them 28-13. Plymouth State two people actually believe they're a better team than Union or even Curry or Husson. Oh yeah they just beat over rated Framingham...but they also lost to W.Conn. I've watched these New England teams. Union has played almost all of them before. They do not beat the Liberty League. The best team in New England by far is Springfield. Your poll reflects that correctly. Last year Springfield finished 5-5...FOURTH PLACE in the LIBERTY LEAGUE.

[Bartman]

Ufan,
    I love your passion and agree many of the teams that received votes would lose to Union. I am sure the SOS(your favorite stat)/weaker schedule is a reason some would rationalize. Now if you beat Hobart this Saturday , that will be very interesting for next weeks poll and how it will be viewed by others. If you do beat Hobart I think Union should go from no votes to top ten and If RPI beats Alfred that will be huge for the LL  and bring some respect to the conference . I think since Ithaca joined the LL this year,  we have started to cannibalize each other a bit like the old E8(Brockport will beat back the cannibals this year)
This poll should be good locker room motivation for the Dutchmen.

[Bombers798891]

I've watched these New England teams. Union has played almost all of them before. They do not beat the Liberty League. The best team in New England by far is Springfield. Your poll reflects that correctly. Last year Springfield finished 5-5...FOURTH PLACE in the LIBERTY LEAGUE.

But if these NE teams aren't very good—and I would agree with you that, by and large, they aren't—what's there for Union to hang their hat on? They've lost to one of those NE teams, and it wasn't Springfield. They beat 2-4 Morrisville by one point in a game in which they were outgained by a 2-to-1 margin. They've won impressively the last two weeks, but against not great teams.

You can't have it both ways. If NE football is a step below the LL, then Union's 3-1 record against them isn't all that meaningful, and we're left with a collection of wins over not good NY teams by which to judge the Dutchmen.

[D3MAFAN]

Week 7 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1t  Brockport State ( 3 )	6-0	47	1t	vs. Hartwick
1t  Delaware Valley ( 2 )	7-0	47	1t	Open Date
3   Wesley	5-1	41	3	vs. Rowan
4   Frostburg State	5-1	35	4	vs. Montclair State
5   Springfield	7-0	28	7	vs. Catholic
6   Salisbury	5-1	25	8	vs. Southern Virginia
7   Alfred	5-1	15	5	vs. RPI
8t  Albright	5-1	6	9	at Stevenson
8t  Plymouth State	6-1	6	NR	at Massachusetts Maritime
10t Framingham State	5-1	5	6	vs. Westfield State
10t Hobart	5-2	5	NR	at Union

Dropping Out:
Christopher Newport
Stevenson


Also Receiving votes:               
Christopher Newport 4
Trinity 4
Widener 4
Cortland State 2
Western Connecticut 1
                     
            
Voting Distribution:            

Brockport State (1,2,1,1,3)
Delaware Valley (2,1,2,2,1)
Wesley (3,3,3,3,2)
Frostburg State (4,4,4,4,4)
Springfield (5,6,6,5,5)
Salisbury (6,5,5,8,6)
Alfred (7,9,8,6,10)
Albright (NR,NR,9,7,NR)
Plymouth State (9,NR,NR,NR,7)
Framingham State (10,NR,NR,10,8)
Hobart (NR,8,NR,9,NR)
Christopher Newport (8,10,NR,NR,NR)
Trinity (NR,NR,7,NR,NR)
Widener (NR,7,NR,NR,NR)
Cortland State (NR,NR,NR,NR,9)
Western Connecticut (NR,NR,10,NR,NR)

OK, Just a rant here. I read this board with great interest and my disagreement with some pollsters who rank MAC or NJAC third or fourth place teams every week is hard for me to keep quiet about. But that's not my issue here. As a Union fan I was anxious to see how many votes the 6-1 Liberty League leading Dutchman might receive....ZERO...nobodies interested... Alright, fellow LL member Hobart continues to get support. They earned it...LAST YEAR. Union plays Hobart this week so who's better this year will be determined on the field. I see one pollster thinks Western Connecticut deserves votes ahead of Union. Sure they're 5-1 but they lost to Mass. Dartmouth and speaking of last year, Union beat them 28-13. Plymouth State two people actually believe they're a better team than Union or even Curry or Husson. Oh yeah they just beat over rated Framingham...but they also lost to W.Conn. I've watched these New England teams. Union has played almost all of them before. They do not beat the Liberty League. The best team in New England by far is Springfield. Your poll reflects that correctly. Last year Springfield finished 5-5...FOURTH PLACE in the LIBERTY LEAGUE.

Not sure if you were playing devil's advocate here. However, to say that Framingham State is overrated is absurd. The NE schools have taken major steps over the last 5 to 6 years to become competitive. Other than this current year, Union was taking major steps back, while Framingham has been taking major steps forward. You are comparing one conference to all of New England. Regarding Plymouth State, this team has a great defense and have been playing well as of late. Also, I know we don't really do this team beat this team, so this team is better, but Framingham State did beat Cortland who just beat a good Alfred team. Union loss to Husson who loss to WNE who loss to Springfield. Not sure if your argument is for Springfield, but they are higher than every other team in the NE area. If its for Union, we will know a lot about them this upcoming weekend against Hobart. Union best win is against Curry who best win is against Fitchburg. We will know a lot about Curry during their late October November stretch in the CCC.

[ITH radio]

Ufan,
    I love your passion and agree many of the teams that received votes would lose to Union. I am sure the SOS(your favorite stat)/weaker schedule is a reason some would rationalize. Now if you beat Hobart this Saturday , that will be very interesting for next weeks poll and how it will be viewed by others. If you do beat Hobart I think Union should go from no votes to top ten and If RPI beats Alfred that will be huge for the LL  and bring some respect to the conference . I think since Ithaca joined the LL this year,  we have started to cannibalize each other a bit like the old E8(Brockport will beat back the cannibals this year)
This poll should be good locker room motivation for the Dutchmen.

Union's SOS is 111 and their 1 loss is to Husson, who lost to WNE. Both Husson and WNE have zero votes either (but as things look, they will both probably end up as the ECFC and CCC champs and 2 of the 32 playoff participants). Fram St is also not over-rated IMO. They beat Cortland handily, who just upset Alfred. Now the Saxons aren't really a Top 25 team any more, they are still a very strong program, and as shown above, still one of the 10-15 best in the region, in spite of the loss to the Dragons.

[wesleydad]

Not going to quote because it will make the post too long.  I have Alfred at 8, only loss to Cortland > Husson, Albright at 9, only loss to Del Val > Husson, West Conn at 10, only loss to Mass-Dartmouth < Husson, but with an easy win over Plymouth St. who just beat Framingham who beat Cortland, who just beat Alfred.  So in my mind West Conn has a better win than any for Union.  I have Union on my watch list and if they win this week the will be in my top 10.  I do not like Albright as they have struggled to beat teams who IMO are not that good, but they still only have 1 loss and it is to the joint #1 in the region.  I know that Springfield was middle of the pack in the LL last year, but wasn't Union worse?  I think it is hard to argue against a 7-0 team because they were only .500 last year and think that a 6-1 team that was .300 last year should be in the top 10.  I love the discussion.  I still don't get Widener at 7! 

[dlippiel]

You've got to love UfanBill's passion! dlip knows he does! dlip also has a ton of respect for UfanBill and knows, that he knows, what he is talking about when it comes to football (more so than dlip).

With that being said dlip remains mum until this weekend's result.

dlip for one does not believe the LL is very strong this season and really hasn't been in quite some time. The potential is there, and dlip believes that IC, RPI, and Hobart can be mentioned with the top teams in the other ER conferences minus one or two, but he struggles to find any real evidence to support a claim that the LL is stronger than OR really weaker than the other ER conferences. If he is being honest he leans more towards weaker, especially this season, based upon what he has seen with his own eyes.

dlip loves to read these discussions and feels so many bring such great viewpoints, interpretations, and opinions to the table. If anyone has some real hardcore data to support their thoughts on the LL please share. dlip would love to read.

[Bombers798891]

I think there's a middle ground with these NE schools.

I think, often, their supporters pin a little too much on the "Look how close they played [NY team X]" Framingham, for example, got a lot more mileage out of almost beating Ithaca and Cortland than I think most teams get when they're perceived to be punching up a weight class. 

But I think NY fans often dismiss them out of hand, and don't give them enough credit when they do hang tough. When Fisher was getting ready to play West Conn in the 2014 ECACs, we got this gem:

West Conn looks to have a good pass rush with their DL. Will be interesting to see if they can get after Fisher's QB Speaking of...

If Fenti plays, Fisher by 27...
If Fenti and Nigolian play, Fisher by 35...
If Catan gets the start, Fisher by 17...
If Catan starts and Nigolian plays, Fisher by 24...

This is the sort of dismissive attitude that, justifiably, angers NE fans. That these NY teams can just name the score.

In truth, I'd like to see a little more of the following:

1. NE teams winning more of these games
2. NY fans being a little less smug about the whole thing

Overall, I still believe that the NY schools are, for the most part, better. But the gap has absolutely closed.

[rams1102]

I love D3 Football, I run the NJAC Pick e'm, I'm a Montclair homer but not nearly as versed as most of the posters here. Anyway here goes:

My thoughts are that most are in agreement with the Top 5. Brock, Del, Wes, Frost and Spring. Of these 5 depending on the seating's may all get a first round win / buy, maybe Brock, Del or Wes may win a second round game and do not go beyond there. Only my opinion.

How 6 through 10 play out will always be conjecture and a lot of good reading from the posts.

[D3MAFAN]

I think there's a middle ground with these NE schools.

I think, often, their supporters pin a little too much on the "Look how close they played [NY team X]" Framingham, for example, got a lot more mileage out of almost beating Ithaca and Cortland than I think most teams get when they're perceived to be punching up a weight class. 

But I think NY fans often dismiss them out of hand, and don't give them enough credit when they do hang tough. When Fisher was getting ready to play West Conn in the 2014 ECACs, we got this gem:

West Conn looks to have a good pass rush with their DL. Will be interesting to see if they can get after Fisher's QB Speaking of...

If Fenti plays, Fisher by 27...
If Fenti and Nigolian play, Fisher by 35...
If Catan gets the start, Fisher by 17...
If Catan starts and Nigolian plays, Fisher by 24...

This is the sort of dismissive attitude that, justifiably, angers NE fans. That these NY teams can just name the score.

In truth, I'd like to see a little more of the following:

1. NE teams winning more of these games
2. NY fans being a little less smug about the whole thing

Overall, I still believe that the NY schools are, for the most part, better. But the gap has absolutely closed.

I agree, but its the perception thing. They same type of perception the rest of the DIII looks at the ER. Not saying that we don't have the data to back up the notions, but we have to do better with facts. Framingham State took a huge step this year by winning a key earlier season game against a good solid E 8 team. Again, the saying goes to be the best, you have beat the best. It all started with scheduling, you have to gain experience, which is what many teams in the NE are doing.

[MRMIKESMITH]

I love D3 Football, I run the NJAC Pick e'm, I'm a Montclair homer but not nearly as versed as most of the posters here. Anyway here goes:

My thoughts are that most are in agreement with the Top 5. Brock, Del, Wes, Frost and Spring. Of these 5 depending on the seating's may all get a first round win / buy, maybe Brock, Del or Wes may win a second round game and do not go beyond there. Only my opinion.

How 6 through 10 play out will always be conjecture and a lot of good reading from the posts.

The thing is the bottom 5 may not even be in the bottom 5 of this ranking by the end of the season and none may even make the playoff. That's why I am a huge fan of the ECAC bowls, not the conference vs conference bowl (you can schedule that early in the season).

[Bombers798891]

I agree, but its the perception thing. They same type of perception the rest of the DIII looks at the ER. Not saying that we don't have the data to back up the notions, but we have to do better with facts. Framingham State took a huge step this year by winning a key earlier season game against a good solid E 8 team. Again, the saying goes to be the best, you have beat the best. It all started with scheduling, you have to gain experience, which is what many teams in the NE are doing.

Right, but what's the perception been? That we can't win anything. Fisher giving Mount all they could handle in '06, Ithaca outscoring the entire OAC against Mount in '07, Fisher being down 8 to UMHB in the 4th, Hobart and Mount tied in the 3rd last year...it doesn't matter. We don't win the games.*

*Except for that time that Buff State beat Whitewater, when UWW was down

Curry's wins over Team Boltus and Ithaca were significant for that very reason, but those were 10 years ago. There needs to be something more than "Team X hung with Team Y" Framingham's win over Cortland may be that, if the Red Dragons go, say 8-2.

[D3MAFAN]

I agree, but its the perception thing. They same type of perception the rest of the DIII looks at the ER. Not saying that we don't have the data to back up the notions, but we have to do better with facts. Framingham State took a huge step this year by winning a key earlier season game against a good solid E 8 team. Again, the saying goes to be the best, you have beat the best. It all started with scheduling, you have to gain experience, which is what many teams in the NE are doing.

Right, but what's the perception been? That we can't win anything. Fisher giving Mount all they could handle in '06, Ithaca outscoring the entire OAC against Mount in '07, Fisher being down 8 to UMHB in the 4th, Hobart and Mount tied in the 3rd last year...it doesn't matter. We don't win the games.*

*Except for that time that Buff State beat Whitewater, when UWW was down

Curry's wins over Team Boltus and Ithaca were significant for that very reason, but those were 10 years ago. There needs to be something more than "Team X hung with Team Y" Framingham's win over Cortland may be that, if the Red Dragons go, say 8-2.

That's what I am hoping, but we had our opportunities and we didn't take advantage of them.

[bman]

and until we see the NE teams making a dent in the playoffs (and not the ECACs), that perception is reality...

[MRMIKESMITH]

and until we see the NE teams making a dent in the playoffs (and not the ECACs), that perception is reality...

I don't agree with that, I am all for ECACs. As a fan of team who has made a deep run in the playoffs only to lose to UWW. I will say as of late when was last time any ER team made a dent in the playoffs past the 2nd round. Many NE teams face the #1 or #2 ER team 1st round and make an early exit. I think at this point as they continue to play top ER teams and be competitive they will eventually win some big playoff games and OOC games. But it really starts with early season scheduling and winning those games. If majority of the teams in the NE conference only schedule within NE , which results in "Team NE" usually getting sent to the #1 or #2 team in ER or Mount (mainly due to travel). You have to include ECACs, I know Salisbury does, it's another argument to make a statement.