East Region Fan Poll

[bman]

Please opine on all things being equal, what other factor you would consider...

My issue is that you only looked at a certain subset of games.

In 2014, MASCAC Champion Framingham was competitive against the NJAC champion, and in 2015, they were competitive against the E8 champion. This year, Framingham beat the likely E8 runner-up. The fact that those games didn't occur in the playoffs doesn't change that they're games against the other conference's top team.

I think I am really crappy at making a point (I guess I should never be an attorney).  My point (and only point I was trying to make) was that once you consider ALL the factors (the games you mention INCLUDED) and still can't make a decision, then the conference bias matters.

After next weeks poll (which hopefully will start to settle out the issues), I'll provide an example...

[Bombers798891]

I think I am really crappy at making a point (I guess I should never be an attorney).  My point (and only point I was trying to make) was that once you consider ALL the factors (the games you mention INCLUDED) and still can't make a decision, then the conference bias matters.

Sure. But since your original post only specified and showed NCAA playoff games, that's where the confusion was.

I'm disputing that perceived conference strength is relevant. I'm simply saying that the perception needs to move from:

New England teams can't compete with New York teams, and fans of NY teams should look down their nose at the matchups

to

New York teams are better on the whole than New England teams, but fans of NY teams shouldn't act like all their team has to do is show up and they'll win by 40.

[wesleydad]

This is a good discussion.  I try not to use conference bias in my picking of teams, but in the end I go with what I think to be true that conference A is better than conference B therefor I would rank the team from A above the team from B if all points are equal.  I go out of my way to look for teams that are doing well in the supposedly not top conferences and include them in my poll because they deserve it and with no common point of reference how do we know that a 1 or 2 loss team in the top conference is better than the undefeated team in the weaker conference.

[UfanBill]

I think I am really crappy at making a point (I guess I should never be an attorney).  My point (and only point I was trying to make) was that once you consider ALL the factors (the games you mention INCLUDED) and still can't make a decision, then the conference bias matters.

Sure. But since your original post only specified and showed NCAA playoff games, that's where the confusion was.

I'm disputing that perceived conference strength is relevant. I'm simply saying that the perception needs to move from:

New England teams can't compete with New York teams, and fans of NY teams should look down their nose at the matchups

to

New York teams are better on the whole than New England teams, but fans of NY teams shouldn't act like all their team has to do is show up and they'll win by 40.

I'm a believer in (b) but I would say this. The top teams in New England in the last decade...Framingham, Curry, Husson, W. Conn., Western New England, Bridgewater, add or subtract as you will, have shown that they can compete with teams from the E8 and LL. The bottom feeders in New England are not even close. This year and possibly for years to come the best team in NE is Springfield, who I really think of more as a NY team since they've played and recruited with the LL and E8 for over a decade. Maybe someone from a NE conference should start a New England poll so the posters who know these teams best could discuss it. Problem now is that there just don't seem to be enough posters from NE that care.

I need to add...the most passionate, enthusiastic D3 football fans in New England seem to be fans of the NESCAC. Their board is full of thoughtful, insightful comments. They are not shy about their opinions and a strong case can be made that Trinity could be the best team in NE.   

[bman]

This is a good discussion.  I try not to use conference bias in my picking of teams, but in the end I go with what I think to be true that conference A is better than conference B therefor I would rank the team from A above the team from B if all points are equal.  I go out of my way to look for teams that are doing well in the supposedly not top conferences and include them in my poll because they deserve it and with no common point of reference how do we know that a 1 or 2 loss team in the top conference is better than the undefeated team in the weaker conference.

Well, we see that in the playoffs all the time.   

[wesleydad]

This is a good discussion.  I try not to use conference bias in my picking of teams, but in the end I go with what I think to be true that conference A is better than conference B therefor I would rank the team from A above the team from B if all points are equal.  I go out of my way to look for teams that are doing well in the supposedly not top conferences and include them in my poll because they deserve it and with no common point of reference how do we know that a 1 or 2 loss team in the top conference is better than the undefeated team in the weaker conference.

Well, we see that in the playoffs all the time.   

Do we really?  Come playoff time the 1 and 2 loss teams in the strong conferences are not in the playoffs because they did not win the AQ or get an at large bid.  So what we see is the top team from the strong conference against the top team from the weaker conference.  If that game is not close it may be no different than the result of the AQ vs the other teams in the strong conference with the 1 loss being to the AQ team.  I have no issue putting Trinity in my top 10.  They were ranked 50 by D3 in all of D3 and are undefeated.  Many of the teams D3 ranked ahead of them have at least 1 loss.  I had no problem putting W. Conn at 10 with 1 loss since they easily beat Plymouth who beat Framingham who beat Cortland who just beat Alfred who beat several others in the discussion.  I tried to change the 3, 4, 5 that I had all from the NJAC just because I dont think any league should have 3 teams that high even if they may be the 3, 4, and 5 best teams in the east, but everyone else keeps losing so I did not have much choice.  I think I have a pretty good idea of how this will end up, but I will not vote it that way until it plays out that way.

[Bombers798891]

[/b]

Well, we see that in the playoffs all the time.   

Do we really?  Come playoff time the 1 and 2 loss teams in the strong conferences are not in the playoffs because they did not win the AQ or get an at large bid.  So what we see is the top team from the strong conference against the top team from the weaker conference.  If that game is not close it may be no different than the result of the AQ vs the other teams in the strong conference with the 1 loss being to the AQ team.  I have no issue putting Trinity in my top 10.  They were ranked 50 by D3 in all of D3 and are undefeated.  Many of the teams D3 ranked ahead of them have at least 1 loss.  I had no problem putting W. Conn at 10 with 1 loss since they easily beat Plymouth who beat Framingham who beat Cortland who just beat Alfred who beat several others in the discussion.  I tried to change the 3, 4, 5 that I had all from the NJAC just because I dont think any league should have 3 teams that high even if they may be the 3, 4, and 5 best teams in the east, but everyone else keeps losing so I did not have much choice.  I think I have a pretty good idea of how this will end up, but I will not vote it that way until it plays out that way.
[/quote]

Yeah, I'm with Wesleydad on this. The NCAA playoffs are a really small sample size thanks to the vanishing Pool C bids and just general roster turnover

I also won't speak for him, but I do know that when I just do conference rankings, there's often not a big difference between some of these teams. A team being 4th or 6th might just be a gut feeling

[Bartman]

Although my attention this weekend will mostly be on my Statesmen and their mission to take down the league leading Dutchmen, I am very interested in whether The Steve will beat Albright and vindicate the earlier votes for The Steve ......Albright may be distracted after all the national attention

[MRMIKESMITH]

Although my attention this weekend will mostly be on my Statesmen and their mission to take down the league leading Dutchmen, I am very interested in whether The Steve will beat Albright and vindicate the earlier votes for The Steve ......Albright may be distracted after all the national attention

Regardless of Albright issues, I am rooting for them to finish RR to help our case, however they may get to the table before us anyway, thus eliminating us. So I guess its win conference or bust for us. Unless Delaware Valley have a hiccup and lose two games similar to Stevenson late season loss last year.

[wesleydad]

Although my attention this weekend will mostly be on my Statesmen and their mission to take down the league leading Dutchmen, I am very interested in whether The Steve will beat Albright and vindicate the earlier votes for The Steve ......Albright may be distracted after all the national attention

with you on this Bartman, I dropped Albright out after they lost to Del Val badly, but put them back in when others lost last week and with their only loss to my #2, they are ok for top 10.  I did not like the way they struggled against some of the weaker MAC teams, but I expect them to beat Stevenson this week.

[wesleydad]

[/b]

Well, we see that in the playoffs all the time.   

Do we really?  Come playoff time the 1 and 2 loss teams in the strong conferences are not in the playoffs because they did not win the AQ or get an at large bid.  So what we see is the top team from the strong conference against the top team from the weaker conference.  If that game is not close it may be no different than the result of the AQ vs the other teams in the strong conference with the 1 loss being to the AQ team.  I have no issue putting Trinity in my top 10.  They were ranked 50 by D3 in all of D3 and are undefeated.  Many of the teams D3 ranked ahead of them have at least 1 loss.  I had no problem putting W. Conn at 10 with 1 loss since they easily beat Plymouth who beat Framingham who beat Cortland who just beat Alfred who beat several others in the discussion.  I tried to change the 3, 4, 5 that I had all from the NJAC just because I dont think any league should have 3 teams that high even if they may be the 3, 4, and 5 best teams in the east, but everyone else keeps losing so I did not have much choice.  I think I have a pretty good idea of how this will end up, but I will not vote it that way until it plays out that way.

Yeah, I'm with Wesleydad on this. The NCAA playoffs are a really small sample size thanks to the vanishing Pool C bids and just general roster turnover

I also won't speak for him, but I do know that when I just do conference rankings, there's often not a big difference between some of these teams. A team being 4th or 6th might just be a gut feeling
[/quote]

I agree.  There is not much separating the bottom 5 for me.  I could have moved them around and been fine with it.  Maybe W Conn would stay at 10.

[Bartman]

Top 5 have separated themselves even more this week especially Brockport as shutting out Hartwick is impressive.......as far as bottom 5....Union is officially for real, so welcome to the top 10.....I have decided to not vote for Trinity, although they are obviously a good team because there is no way to really evaluate the "isolated" NESCAC

[AUPepBand]

So where's this poll? Kaz MIA like Saterday? No kazoos in the band = Seven Saxon turnovers!!

[AUKaz00]

Week 8 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1t  Brockport State ( 3 )	7-0	47	1t	at Buffalo State
1t  Delaware Valley ( 2 )	7-0	47	1t	vs. Lebanon Valley
3   Wesley	6-1	41	3	at Montclair State
4   Frostburg State	6-1	35	4	at Southern Virginia
5   Springfield	8-0	28	5	Open Date
6   Salisbury	6-1	26	6	vs. Rowan
7   Union	7-1	12	NR	Open Date
8   Husson	6-1	10	NR	at Anna Maria
9t  Framingham State	6-1	7	10t	at Mass-Dartmouth
9t  Plymouth State	7-1	7	8t	vs. Westfield State

Dropping Out:
Alfred
Albright
Hobart


Also Receiving votes:               
Trinity 4
Widener 4
Christopher Newport 3
Cortland State 2
RPI 1
Western Connecticut 1
                     
            
Voting Distribution:            

Brockport State (3,1,2,1,1)
Delaware Valley (1,2,1,2,2)
Wesley (2,3,3,3,3)
Frostburg State (4,4,4,4,4)
Springfield (5,5,6,6,5)
Salisbury (6,6,5,5,7)
Union (9,8,NR,9,6)
Husson (8,7,NR,8,NR)
Framingham State (10,10,9,NR,8)
Plymouth State (7,9,10,NR,NR)
Trinity (NR,NR,NR,7,NR)
Widener (NR,NR,7,NR,NR)
Christopher Newport (NR,NR,8,NR,NR)
Cortland State (NR,NR,NR,NR,9)
RPI (NR,NR,NR,NR,10)
Western Connecticut (NR,NR,NR,10,NR)

[d3fan142511]

Here comes New England Football!!! Union with a huge win and great turnaround for the program. Last 3 weeks of season should be fun in the East with alot of Big Games.

I know Husson Lost to WNE but i find it hard that some poll members have them below Union even with a H2H win.