East Region Fan Poll

[Machiavelli]

Judging by the new Top 25, Salisbury caught a lot of people's attention this week

[Ice Bear]

Judging by the new Top 25, Salisbury caught a lot of people's attention this week

While DB does question how good Rowan is or is capable of being on any Saturday (nod to the Wesley win), they certainly got ****ing steamrolled by the Gulls. DB watched some of that game (while waiting at his daughter's dance class) and Rowan couldn't even ****ing breathe from the opening kickoff.

[rams1102]

So the question of 'Who would I put at 10?' made me think what my Top 10 would be this week, even though I spelled out how many from each conference. Wesleydad, feel free to use mine for the poll if you want. Here goes:

1. Brockport
2. Frosty
3. Salisbury
4. RPI
5. Montclair St.
6. Cortland St.
7. Wesley
8. Ithaca
9. Delaware Valley
10. Christopher Newport

Now remember I'm an RPI guy and this week Salisbury jumps them for me. I think Salisbury's body of work thus far is just more impressive. But it's entirely possible they lose 2 in a row to end the year. But if they win both, the top 25 voters drastically missed a team. I think if they go 1-1 and play tough games, they should land around 15-18 and get in the playoffs. But as we've seen way too many times with teams that play that type of offense, they have very little room for error. A turnover or an early deficit can bury an option team.

RPI is coming into their own. I fear the Union game as it's more of a headache now and can severely hurt them heading into the playoffs for many reasons. But if they can run the table, it could set them up for a favorable first round matchup and a chance to win 2 possibly. If they lose to Union, I wouldn't be surprised if they get fed to Brockport.

I wasn't sure about Montclair all year, but now I think they are legit.

I'm still not sold on Cortland and they also could drop 2 to end the year.

Wesley's loss to Rowan is strange, but they are 3 safeties short of being ranked like 5th in the country.

Ithaca played to the final play with the beast of the east and had 2 chances to beat RPI on the final play when they decided to run a double reverse screen throwback Statue of Liberty from the 2 yard line.

I respect the he!! out of the Delaware Valley program but I think they are a paper tiger this year. I actually struggled not putting them behind CNU. They'll be back, but this isn't their strongest team ever.

And last but not least, who would I put at 10??? There are a lot of worthy candidates to this point, but CNU lost to both Montclair and Salisbury by just 3. I think they were the easy choice after a little thought. Maybe they got a hall pass getting cancelled with Frosty but who knows how that game shakes out. Can't assume a loss.

So that's my thinking. Even though there are a ton of big games left, I think most of these teams stay here through the end of the year because they are just better than the rest.

Salisbury has Wesley and Frosty as their last 2 games. We will see,and as of today you can easially flip RPI and Salisbury. We will see when W. Conn plays Framingham this week.

[wesleydad]

So the question of 'Who would I put at 10?' made me think what my Top 10 would be this week, even though I spelled out how many from each conference. Wesleydad, feel free to use mine for the poll if you want. Here goes:

1. Brockport
2. Frosty
3. Salisbury
4. RPI
5. Montclair St.
6. Cortland St.
7. Wesley
8. Ithaca
9. Delaware Valley
10. Christopher Newport

Now remember I'm an RPI guy and this week Salisbury jumps them for me. I think Salisbury's body of work thus far is just more impressive. But it's entirely possible they lose 2 in a row to end the year. But if they win both, the top 25 voters drastically missed a team. I think if they go 1-1 and play tough games, they should land around 15-18 and get in the playoffs. But as we've seen way too many times with teams that play that type of offense, they have very little room for error. A turnover or an early deficit can bury an option team.

RPI is coming into their own. I fear the Union game as it's more of a headache now and can severely hurt them heading into the playoffs for many reasons. But if they can run the table, it could set them up for a favorable first round matchup and a chance to win 2 possibly. If they lose to Union, I wouldn't be surprised if they get fed to Brockport.

I wasn't sure about Montclair all year, but now I think they are legit.

I'm still not sold on Cortland and they also could drop 2 to end the year.

Wesley's loss to Rowan is strange, but they are 3 safeties short of being ranked like 5th in the country.

Ithaca played to the final play with the beast of the east and had 2 chances to beat RPI on the final play when they decided to run a double reverse screen throwback Statue of Liberty from the 2 yard line.

I respect the he!! out of the Delaware Valley program but I think they are a paper tiger this year. I actually struggled not putting them behind CNU. They'll be back, but this isn't their strongest team ever.

And last but not least, who would I put at 10??? There are a lot of worthy candidates to this point, but CNU lost to both Montclair and Salisbury by just 3. I think they were the easy choice after a little thought. Maybe they got a hall pass getting cancelled with Frosty but who knows how that game shakes out. Can't assume a loss.

So that's my thinking. Even though there are a ton of big games left, I think most of these teams stay here through the end of the year because they are just better than the rest.

Salisbury has Wesley and Frosty as their last 2 games. We will see,and as of today you can easially flip RPI and Salisbury. We will see when W. Conn plays Framingham this week.

Mach, I can surely add yours to the mix.

[wesleydad]

Throwing this out there for discussion since it shows up all over the country.  After how many loses does a H2H win lose its luster.  Case in point Wesley and Del Val.  Wesley defeats Del Val in week one.  Wesley has lost 3 games, albeit by only 1 point each time, while Del Val has run the table.  Several Voters have Wesley still ahead of Del Val in their polls.  With that in mind, why isn't Rowan ahead of Wesley?  They both have 3 losses, yet Rowan beat Wesley, so there H2H does not count?  Rowan's 3 loses are to Frostburg, Salisbury, and CNU, getting rolled in each one.  Wesley's loses are to Frostburg, Montclair, and Rowan.  Based on that shouldn't Rowan get the nod over Wesley.  I think Wesley is better, but they lost to Rowan and the teams currently have the same record.  I am ok with 1 blip on the way, but I can't keep a team ahead of someone based on H2H after the winning team has lost 3 times and the loser has not lost since.  I go with 1 loss does not void H2H result, 2 losses depending on how they happen may void it, but 3 losses and there is no way I keep the original winner ahead of the original loser.  That is why we all get to vote.

[Ice Bear]

Throwing this out there for discussion since it shows up all over the country.  After how many loses does a H2H win lose its luster.  Case in point Wesley and Del Val.  Wesley defeats Del Val in week one.  Wesley has lost 3 games, albeit by only 1 point each time, while Del Val has run the table.  Several Voters have Wesley still ahead of Del Val in their polls.  With that in mind, why isn't Rowan ahead of Wesley?  They both have 3 losses, yet Rowan beat Wesley, so there H2H does not count?  Rowan's 3 loses are to Frostburg, Salisbury, and CNU, getting rolled in each one.  Wesley's loses are to Frostburg, Montclair, and Rowan.  Based on that shouldn't Rowan get the nod over Wesley.  I think Wesley is better, but they lost to Rowan and the teams currently have the same record.  I am ok with 1 blip on the way, but I can't keep a team ahead of someone based on H2H after the winning team has lost 3 times and the loser has not lost since.  I go with 1 loss does not void H2H result, 2 losses depending on how they happen may void it, but 3 losses and there is no way I keep the original winner ahead of the original loser.  That is why we all get to vote.

DB thinks this is a great point as he struggled keeping Wesley in this week (although he did) and not including Rowan at all. It's such a tough call because if someone were to say to DB, "How the **** can you include Wesley in the bottom five and not include Rowan at all, who beat them H2H?" DB would have to say that question has a **** ton of validity. Especially having watched Rowan look like a pop warner team against Salisbury on Saturday. Granted Salisbury is looking good but dlip suspects they will fall to the Wolverines this weekend at home. Now if Salisbury defeats Wesley and Rowan either defeats Montclair (which won't happen...maybe?) or plays them super tough, than enough will be enough for DB, and he'll yell uncle on Weslsey.

H2H is huge to an extent but there are so many variables that can add up and often times provide at least some rational to over ride a H2H result. Great discussion and often times a result, one way or the other, can prove or disprove the accuracy of someone's poll.

[Jonny Utah]

Throwing this out there for discussion since it shows up all over the country.  After how many loses does a H2H win lose its luster.  Case in point Wesley and Del Val.  Wesley defeats Del Val in week one.  Wesley has lost 3 games, albeit by only 1 point each time, while Del Val has run the table.  Several Voters have Wesley still ahead of Del Val in their polls.  With that in mind, why isn't Rowan ahead of Wesley?  They both have 3 losses, yet Rowan beat Wesley, so there H2H does not count?  Rowan's 3 loses are to Frostburg, Salisbury, and CNU, getting rolled in each one.  Wesley's loses are to Frostburg, Montclair, and Rowan.  Based on that shouldn't Rowan get the nod over Wesley.  I think Wesley is better, but they lost to Rowan and the teams currently have the same record.  I am ok with 1 blip on the way, but I can't keep a team ahead of someone based on H2H after the winning team has lost 3 times and the loser has not lost since.  I go with 1 loss does not void H2H result, 2 losses depending on how they happen may void it, but 3 losses and there is no way I keep the original winner ahead of the original loser.  That is why we all get to vote.

Yea you probably just have to look at the entire body of work at this point of the season.  If both teams have 3 losses but the HTH goes to Rowan and a playoff spot is up for grabs between the two, it's really only fair to pick Rowan.  That doesn't mean they are the better team or "deserve" to be ranked higher though.  You really need to look at the whole body of work to determine who should be ranked higher, with HTH being a factor, but not the only one.

[Machiavelli]

Throwing this out there for discussion since it shows up all over the country.  After how many loses does a H2H win lose its luster.  Case in point Wesley and Del Val.  Wesley defeats Del Val in week one.  Wesley has lost 3 games, albeit by only 1 point each time, while Del Val has run the table.  Several Voters have Wesley still ahead of Del Val in their polls.  With that in mind, why isn't Rowan ahead of Wesley?  They both have 3 losses, yet Rowan beat Wesley, so there H2H does not count?  Rowan's 3 loses are to Frostburg, Salisbury, and CNU, getting rolled in each one.  Wesley's loses are to Frostburg, Montclair, and Rowan.  Based on that shouldn't Rowan get the nod over Wesley.  I think Wesley is better, but they lost to Rowan and the teams currently have the same record.  I am ok with 1 blip on the way, but I can't keep a team ahead of someone based on H2H after the winning team has lost 3 times and the loser has not lost since.  I go with 1 loss does not void H2H result, 2 losses depending on how they happen may void it, but 3 losses and there is no way I keep the original winner ahead of the original loser.  That is why we all get to vote.

Unfortunately it's never that easy or cut and dry by this point in the season and you have to evaluate wins/losses. If Rowan was remotely close to Salisbury, they would've gotten respect from me but they got crushed. Delaware Valley hasn't beaten anyone yet this year, the conference looks down, and I wouldn't be surprised if Widener knocks them off.

I truly believe Wesley is 6 points away from being ranked 5 or 6 in the country. They could end with 5 losses though too. If they drop one more I probably can't put them above 10. It's an unexact science for sure.

[MRMIKESMITH]

I continue to think that Brockport in totality is the best East team, they have a great defense, great balance offense, and a great QB. This is the formula you will need to compete after Round 2 of the playoffs. Then their is the 2nd tier teams in the East. I think Frostburg has the grit to beat any team on any give day or field. They have been well tested and survived the close one's. I think RPI continues to win when all odds are against them. Salisbury really surprised me this past weekend with its dominance over Rowan. The Defense was lights out, the offense looked dominate, still haven't been able to capitalize on 1 on 1 pass situations or PAs, still have room for improvement. Then we have Cortland that's been firing on all cylinders, I think weather played a huge factor this past weekend. Really looking forward to their game against Brockport. Now Delaware Valley may be somewhat of a conundrum to many, but I think they have been playing lights out since their opening loss to Wesley, that was a tough environment to play in. I think Delaware Valley has responded and the young team has grown each week.  I have Montclair, Wesley, and West Conn (who played Salve on the Road similar to Montclair win at home over Salve). I know this past weekend just ended, but this weekend is shaping up to be one great slate of games.

[Ice Bear]

I continue to think that Brockport in totality is the best East team, they have a great defense, great balance offense, and a great QB. This is the formula you will need to compete after Round 2 of the playoffs. Then their is the 2nd tier teams in the East. I think Frostburg has the grit to beat any team on any give day or field. They have been well tested and survived the close one's. I think RPI continues to win when all odds are against them. Salisbury really surprised me this past weekend with its dominance over Rowan. The Defense was lights out, the offense looked dominate, still haven't been able to capitalize on 1 on 1 pass situations or PAs, still have room for improvement. Then we have Cortland that's been firing on all cylinders, I think weather played a huge factor this past weekend. Really looking forward to their game against Brockport. Now Delaware Valley may be somewhat of a conundrum to many, but I think they have been playing lights out since their opening loss to Wesley, that was a tough environment to play in. I think Delaware Valley has responded and the young team has grown each week.  I have Montclair, Wesley, and West Conn (who played Salve on the Road similar to Montclair win at home over Salve). I know this past weekend just ended, but this weekend is shaping up to be one great slate of games.

**** yes! Really looking forward to this weekend where we may get some clarity...or more confusion.

[Oline89]

Throwing this out there for discussion since it shows up all over the country.  After how many loses does a H2H win lose its luster.  Case in point Wesley and Del Val.  Wesley defeats Del Val in week one.  Wesley has lost 3 games, albeit by only 1 point each time, while Del Val has run the table.  Several Voters have Wesley still ahead of Del Val in their polls.  With that in mind, why isn't Rowan ahead of Wesley?  They both have 3 losses, yet Rowan beat Wesley, so there H2H does not count?  Rowan's 3 loses are to Frostburg, Salisbury, and CNU, getting rolled in each one.  Wesley's loses are to Frostburg, Montclair, and Rowan.  Based on that shouldn't Rowan get the nod over Wesley.  I think Wesley is better, but they lost to Rowan and the teams currently have the same record.  I am ok with 1 blip on the way, but I can't keep a team ahead of someone based on H2H after the winning team has lost 3 times and the loser has not lost since.  I go with 1 loss does not void H2H result, 2 losses depending on how they happen may void it, but 3 losses and there is no way I keep the original winner ahead of the original loser.  That is why we all get to vote.

Unfortunately it's never that easy or cut and dry by this point in the season and you have to evaluate wins/losses. If Rowan was remotely close to Salisbury, they would've gotten respect from me but they got crushed. Delaware Valley hasn't beaten anyone yet this year, the conference looks down, and I wouldn't be surprised if Widener knocks them off.

I truly believe Wesley is 6 points away from being ranked 5 or 6 in the country. They could end with 5 losses though too. If they drop one more I probably can't put them above 10. It's an unexact science for sure.

I have typed and deleted my opinion on the rankings a dozen times, but here is my best effort.  If this season was taken in a vacuum (forget about Wesley's dominance for the past decade) does a 5-3 team, who is tied for 5th in their 10 team conference, deserve a top 10 ranking in the East?  If they do, then the NJAC dominates the rest of the conferences in the East by a wide margin. 

[Bombers798891]

I continue to think that Brockport in totality is the best East team, they have a great defense, great balance offense, and a great QB. This is the formula you will need to compete after Round 2 of the playoffs. Then their is the 2nd tier teams in the East. I think Frostburg has the grit to beat any team on any give day or field. They have been well tested and survived the close one's. I think RPI continues to win when all odds are against them. Salisbury really surprised me this past weekend with its dominance over Rowan. The Defense was lights out, the offense looked dominate, still haven't been able to capitalize on 1 on 1 pass situations or PAs, still have room for improvement. Then we have Cortland that's been firing on all cylinders, I think weather played a huge factor this past weekend. Really looking forward to their game against Brockport. Now Delaware Valley may be somewhat of a conundrum to many, but I think they have been playing lights out since their opening loss to Wesley, that was a tough environment to play in. I think Delaware Valley has responded and the young team has grown each week.  I have Montclair, Wesley, and West Conn (who played Salve on the Road similar to Montclair win at home over Salve). I know this past weekend just ended, but this weekend is shaping up to be one great slate of games.

I can't figure Cortland out. Lost to Alfred, let Utica hang 688 yards on them,  mostly ripped through the lousy portion of the E8. But lest we forget, were up 28-17 on Port at the half last year.

Are they really good? Or a team that struggles with tougher competition? How will they respond to a winner-take-all game this year?

[Machiavelli]

Throwing this out there for discussion since it shows up all over the country.  After how many loses does a H2H win lose its luster.  Case in point Wesley and Del Val.  Wesley defeats Del Val in week one.  Wesley has lost 3 games, albeit by only 1 point each time, while Del Val has run the table.  Several Voters have Wesley still ahead of Del Val in their polls.  With that in mind, why isn't Rowan ahead of Wesley?  They both have 3 losses, yet Rowan beat Wesley, so there H2H does not count?  Rowan's 3 loses are to Frostburg, Salisbury, and CNU, getting rolled in each one.  Wesley's loses are to Frostburg, Montclair, and Rowan.  Based on that shouldn't Rowan get the nod over Wesley.  I think Wesley is better, but they lost to Rowan and the teams currently have the same record.  I am ok with 1 blip on the way, but I can't keep a team ahead of someone based on H2H after the winning team has lost 3 times and the loser has not lost since.  I go with 1 loss does not void H2H result, 2 losses depending on how they happen may void it, but 3 losses and there is no way I keep the original winner ahead of the original loser.  That is why we all get to vote.

Unfortunately it's never that easy or cut and dry by this point in the season and you have to evaluate wins/losses. If Rowan was remotely close to Salisbury, they would've gotten respect from me but they got crushed. Delaware Valley hasn't beaten anyone yet this year, the conference looks down, and I wouldn't be surprised if Widener knocks them off.

I truly believe Wesley is 6 points away from being ranked 5 or 6 in the country. They could end with 5 losses though too. If they drop one more I probably can't put them above 10. It's an unexact science for sure.

I have typed and deleted my opinion on the rankings a dozen times, but here is my best effort.  If this season was taken in a vacuum (forget about Wesley's dominance for the past decade) does a 5-3 team, who is tied for 5th in their 10 team conference, deserve a top 10 ranking in the East?  If they do, then the NJAC dominates the rest of the conferences in the East by a wide margin.

Based on who they lost to and by how many, and who they've beaten and by how much, I say probably.

[Bombers798891]

Re: Wesley

I think they're a lot like Ithaca, in the sense that the question we're trying to answer isn't just about how good these specific opponents are, and how close the losses were. It's a fundamental question of:

How good can a team be if we're defining them based on their losses?

I know Wesley has the Del Valley win, but overall, I think their case rests mostly on the "Look how close they played these teams!" argument. I've always been wary of teams like that. I'd probably take Wesley at 6ish if we're talking neutral field type hypotheticals. But I don't know how you guys all view your rankings

[MRMIKESMITH]

Any thoughts on what the Regional Rankings will look like? I believe its going to be:

1.   Brockport (8-0)
2.   Frostburg (7-0)
3.   RPI (8-0)
4.   Salisbury (8-0)
5.   Delaware Valley (7-1)
6.   Cortland State (7-1)
7.   Western Conn (8-0)
8.   Merchant Marine (7-1)
9.   Western New England (7-1)
10.   Montclair State (6-2)