East Region Fan Poll

[dlippiel]

It seems to me that Kean is getting very little respect here.....a close loss to Cortland and pretty convincing wins over both WConn and TCNJ have forced me to put them at #5.....I know NOTHING about them outside of scores and what I've read though....

I think Kean does deserve some consideration.

[lewdogg11]

It seems to me that Kean is getting very little respect here.....a close loss to Cortland and pretty convincing wins over both WConn and TCNJ have forced me to put them at #5.....I know NOTHING about them outside of scores and what I've read though....

whoa now, let's not go crazy with cougar love, unless its the kind of cougar that likes botox and lots of perfume    Kean is on my ballot (I can't call it a poll anymore) but not that high.

Gro, you have the Cougars on your poll?

[Knightstalker]

It seems to me that Kean is getting very little respect here.....a close loss to Cortland and pretty convincing wins over both WConn and TCNJ have forced me to put them at #5.....I know NOTHING about them outside of scores and what I've read though....

whoa now, let's not go crazy with cougar love, unless its the kind of cougar that likes botox and lots of perfume    Kean is on my ballot (I can't call it a poll anymore) but not that high.

Gro, you have the Cougars on your poll?

Uhuhuhuh you said Poll.  Uhuhuhuhuh

[PBR...]

It seems to me that Kean is getting very little respect here.....a close loss to Cortland and pretty convincing wins over both WConn and TCNJ have forced me to put them at #5.....I know NOTHING about them outside of scores and what I've read though....

whoa now, let's not go crazy with cougar love, unless its the kind of cougar that likes botox and lots of perfume    Kean is on my ballot (I can't call it a poll anymore) but not that high.

Gro, you have the Cougars on your poll?

BOL... well played indeed

[pg04]

East Region Fan Poll - Week 5 (10/5/08)

#	School (1st votes)	Record	Pts	Prev.	This Week
1	Delaware Valley ( 7 )	3-1	96	2	vs. Lebanon Valley
2	Cortland State ( 2 )	4-0	91	3	vs. #7 Montclair State
3	RPI ( 1 )	4-0	74	5	Open Date
4	Hobart	4-0	62	4	vs. Union
5	St. John Fisher	3-2	61	1	vs. Salisbury
6	Ithaca	3-1	41	6	at Norwich
7	Montclair State	4-0	33	7	at  #2 Cortland State
8	Hartwick	2-1	32	NR	vs. Alfred
9	Kean	3-1	23	9	at Buffalo State
10	Albright	3-1	17	8	at Lycoming

Others Receiving votes:      

Alfred 13,
Lycoming 5,
Rowan 2

Dropping out: #10 Alfred


Voting Breakdown:


Delaware Valley (1, 1, 1, 3, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1)
Cortland State (2, 2, 3, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2)
RPI (4, 6, 2, 1, 3, 3, 6, 5, 3, 3)
Hobart (3, 5, 7, 4, 5, 9, 3, 3, 5, 4)
St. John Fisher (5, 4, 4, 8, 6, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6)
Ithaca (6, 8, 6, 9, 7, 6, 8, 6, 6, 7)
Montclair State (9, 3, 8, 6, 10, 10, 5, 8, 7, -)
Hartwick (7, 10, 5, 7, 4, 8, -, 10, -, 5)
Kean (8, 9, 9, 5, -, 5, 10, -, 9, 10)
Albright (-, 7, -, 10, 8, -, 7, 7, 10, -)
Alfred (-, -, 10, -, 9, -, 9, 9, 8, 8 )
Lycoming (10, -, -, -, -, 7, -, -, -, -)
Rowan (-, -, -, -, -, -, -, -, -, 9)

[dlippiel]

East Region Fan Poll - Week 5 (10/5/08)

#	School (1st votes)	Record	Pts	Prev.	This Week
1	Delaware Valley ( 7 )	3-1	96	2	vs. Lebanon Valley
2	Cortland State ( 2 )	4-0	91	3	vs. #7 Montclair State
3	RPI ( 1 )	4-0	74	5	Open Date
4	Hobart	4-0	62	4	vs. Union
5	St. John Fisher	3-2	61	1	vs. Salisbury
6	Ithaca	3-1	41	6	at Norwich
7	Montclair State	4-0	33	7	at  #2 Cortland State
8	Hartwick	2-1	32	NR	vs. Alfred
9	Kean	3-1	23	9	at Buffalo State
10	Albright	3-1	17	8	at Lycoming

Others Receiving votes:      

Alfred 13,
Lycoming 5,
Rowan 2

Dropping out: #10 Alfred


Voting Breakdown:


Delaware Valley (1, 1, 1, 3, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1)
Cortland State (2, 2, 3, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2)
RPI (4, 6, 2, 1, 3, 3, 6, 5, 3, 3)
Hobart (3, 5, 7, 4, 5, 9, 3, 3, 5, 4)
St. John Fisher (5, 4, 4, 8, 6, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6)
Ithaca (6, 8, 6, 9, 7, 6, 8, 6, 6, 7)
Montclair State (9, 3, 8, 6, 10, 10, 5, 8, 7, -)
Hartwick (7, 10, 5, 7, 4, 8, -, 10, -, 5)
Kean (8, 9, 9, 5, -, 5, 10, -, 9, 10)
Albright (-, 7, -, 10, 8, -, 7, 7, 10, -)
Alfred (-, -, 10, -, 9, -, 9, 9, 8, 8 )
Lycoming (10, -, -, -, -, 7, -, -, -, -)
Rowan (-, -, -, -, -, -, -, -, -, 9)

This looks pretty good to me. I think with RPI beating UR last weekend they deserve to be in the top 3. Very interesting to see SJF behind both LL teams in the poll. I think that is warrented after the loss to Wick. I can't see RPI or Bart losing to WIck but you never know. Del Val is getting credit for their wins over two nationally ranked teams and the falter of others. Again I will say if Cortland's D can step up and take care of buisness they are going to be very dangerous throughout the year, maybe even taking over the top spot at some point. I think SJF falls to Salisbury this weekend, anyone have any thoughts on that. A solid victory over Salisbury though would garner more belif in SJF and for me, take away some of the umpf from their loss to Wick. The East is not an easy call right now.

[pg04]

From what I've read on the ACFC board, In salisbury, the injury bug is going around and also I believe some were involved in an altercation saturday night.  There is a link on that board. 

I expect Fisher to win. 

[dlippiel]

From what I've read on the ACFC board, In salisbury, the injury bug is going around and also I believe some were involved in an altercation saturday night.  There is a link on that board. 

I expect Fisher to win. 

Just read the news on the ACFC board after seeing your post. They sound pretty banged up and in rough shape. I think I am going to take back my previous statement and and agree. SJF should win.

[theoriginalupstate]

SJF doesnt have the consistent offense this year to just predict a win anymore, you have no idea what your going to get.  One week you drop 37 on IC and the next you barely manage 28 vs a team thats allowing 50plus a week.  Too many turnovers, too many missed assignments and too much cuteness with the play calling and personnel...

[redswarm81]

Voters, take notice. This is entertaining, from the Top 25 Board:

How did Case Western Reserve and Cortland State switch positions this week?  Case was ahead of Cortland, and they both played similar teams (Case played Denison, who lost by 14 to No. 7 Wabash and was 1-2 going into the game, and Cortland played Buffalo State, who lost by 13 to No. 20 St. John Fisher and was 0-3 going into the game, so you may even be able to make the case that Case played a bit tougher team, but I digress).

After 3 quarters, Case was up 45-0 and pulled their starters.  Cortland State was only up 14-7 after 3 quarters and needed a big 4th quarter to win by 21.  So I really don't see how Cortland State is justified in passing up Case.

Appreciate the question, and welcome to the board. I don't think your base assumption is correct. I think Buff State is a better team than Denison.

But more importantly [than deleted Massey ratings], it's important to remember that the entire season resume can be re-evaluated each week. (We make sure the voters see this data so they can decide whether to use it.)

Here's the entire season resume for both teams:

No. 15 Case Western Reserve (4-0):
Sep 06   AWAY   Kenyon (1-4)   W   26-62
Sep 13   HOME   Rochester (1-3)   W   38-6
Sep 20   AWAY   Oberlin (1-3)   W   21-48
Oct 04   HOME   Denison (1-3)   W   45-14
Case Western "SoS" - (4-13)
Ave. Margin of Victory: 31.5

No. 14 Cortland State (4-0):
Sep 06   AWAY   Morrisville State (0-4)   W   37-51
Sep 20   AWAY   Rowan (3-1)   W   20-27
Sep 27   AWAY   Kean (3-1)   W   28-32
Oct 04   HOME   Buffalo State (0-4)   W   35-14
Case Western "SoS" - (6-10)
Ave. Margin of Victory: 11.5

Case has been pounding teams, yes, but all they've proven is that they're better than four bad teams. Cortland has proven it's better than Rowan, and that's a road game as well.

More importantly, huh?  Hmmm. . . .

RPI (4-0):
Sep. 13  AWAY   Endicott  (2-3)  W  36-7
Sep. 20  AWAY   Utica    (1-3)    W  24-10
Sep. 27  HOME   WPI     (4-1)     W   35-21
Oct. 4    AWAY   Rochester (1-3)  W  27-17
RPI "SoS" - (8-10)
Ave. Margin of Victory: 16.75

Hobart (4-0):
Sep. 13  HOME  Dickinson      (3-2)  W  28-21
Sep. 20  AWAY  Carnegie Mellon  (3-2)  W  21-16
Sep. 27  HOME  Susquehanna  (2-3)  W  27-14
Oct. 4    AWAY  St. Lawrence  (0-5)  W  16-10
Hobart "SoS" - (8-12)
Ave. Margin of Victory: 7.75

Disclaimer/analysis:  I think that SoS and Margin of Victory are both deeply flawed statistical methods of comparing relative team strength--Margin of Victory particularly.  It's rather useless.  So in that respect, I agree with the Poohbah that "SoS" carries a LOT more weight than Margin of Victory.  However, particularly when we're still relatively early in the season SoS doesn't tell the whole story about how amazing it is to beat a superhuman team of epic proportions, such as mighty Rowan.

Ithaca (3-1)
Sep. 6   HOME   Lycoming  (3-1)  W  17-16
Sep. 13  AWAY  King's    (1-3)   W  38-28
Sep. 20  HOME  Hartwick (3-1)  W  69-42
Sep. 27  AWAY  SJFisher  (3-2)  L  37-6
Ithaca "SoS" - (10-7)
Ave. Margin of Victory: 12.67

This is kinda fun.  Here's how Ithaca looks, but comparing teams with a loss to undefeated teams necessarily prohibits straight-up comparisons of SoS and Margin of Victory.

[Pat Coleman]

That's why when I do SOS calculations for my own use, I eliminate the games against said team. So Cortland's SOS would be 6-6, Case's 4-9, Ithaca's 9-4.

[redswarm81]

That's why when I do SOS calculations for my own use, I eliminate the games against said team. So Cortland's SOS would be 6-6, Case's 4-9, Ithaca's 9-4.

That makes sense.  The NCAA's OWP (and OOWP?) calculations do the same thing, as I recall.

Cortland's 6-6 compares better to Case's 4-9 than 6-10 compares to 4-13.

RPI's SoS then is 8-6, while Hobart's is 8-8.  That result--achieved statistically--seems contrary to the general impression given by comparing their season schedules so far.  I gave the nod to Hobart for quality of opponents before I did the math.  Both Hobart and RPI lack a "marquee" win, although judging solely by record, 4-1 WPI hardly looks like pattycakes.  Looks.

[DanPadavona]

dlippiel -

I'm watching the Fisher-Salisbury game closely too.  It's an out of region game, but Salisbury already has comparable games with Albright and Del Valley.  If Fisher is as good as we thought they were, then they should definitely win this game at home.

[Knightstalker]

Major shakeups in my poll this week.  RPI and Kean make major jumps up, SJF and Bart fall, Alfred and Albright are out, Lyco and Rowan debut, the middle of the pack is rearranged, top two spots stay the same.

[dlippiel]

Looking up ones backside during a colonoscopy the doctor says..."We've got an awful mess up there."
"You mean my insides are a mess doc?"
"No dip**** I was refering to the d3 east region after this week!"