East Region Fan Poll

[Jonny Utah]

I just noticed that Frostburg beat Brockport this year by two touchdowns and that Brockport has been fairly competitive in the NJAC.

Kind of makes Ithacas win versus Frostburg a little more impressive in my mind.

It's out of region.  It will be a nullity for Pool C purposes.

No Frank.  My mind is actually one of the primary criteria for pool C bids this year.  You didn't know?

[theoriginalupstate]

can't really argue with this poll.... though I have a hard time with RPI who has yet to show me anything...

Eh, we have the RPI discussion yearly after they get through the cupcakes on the schedule.  They're doing what they're supposed to, but we shouldn't judge them one way or the other until they start playing Bart, Union and UR.

[Frank Rossi]

can't really argue with this poll.... though I have a hard time with RPI who has yet to show me anything...

Already beat two second-tier LL teams (Susquehanna and WPI) this season.  They're undefeated.  What more do you want?  They've beaten their opponents, and now some decent ones.

Frank you tell me that you think Susq and WPI could hang with Fisher, Wick, Ithaca... lets see them blow out some teams....

You're jumping in your assessment - We're talking about RPI.  Susquehanna and WPI don't have to hang with Fisher, Wick (WPI could, no doubt in my mind on this one) or Ithaca.  RPI would have to in this determination -- and I believe they can having watched them play well against second-tier teams so far.  Compare apples with apples.

[redswarm81]

I'd have to put WPI ahead of Hobart, if only for the quality of their losses.

Cortland has beaten two teams with 5 wins. RPI and Hartwick have each beaten a team with 5 wins.

[SJFF82]

Oh....why do I do this...Just curious as to what the thinking is behind the present rankings of IC-'WICK-SJF?  Obviously, IC BEAT 'Wick in a shootout, so they go ahead of them...right!  And 'Wick snuck past SJF at SJF on homecoming, so 'Wick gets the nod over SJF....but in the only pure thumping (definition: alot to a little) SJF whacked IC....so obviously IC gets the big nod over SJF?  I do understand that in a 3-way like this, there is no ranking that can account for the head-to-head results...but I am just sayin...had IC played MUC, certainly they would be 4-2 instead of 5-1 and with a loss to SJF by many, many points, do the voters still give such a big nod (33 fan poll pts?) to IC over SJF?

Seriously, I am not criticizing the present poll, and I in fact agree with it...I am just wondering....

[Jonny Utah]

Oh....why do I do this...Just curious as to what the thinking is behind the present rankings of IC-'WICK-SJF?  Obviously, IC BEAT 'Wick in a shootout, so they go ahead of them...right!  And 'Wick snuck past SJF at SJF on homecoming, so 'Wick gets the nod over SJF....but in the only pure thumping (definition: alot to a little) SJF whacked IC....so obviously IC gets the big nod over SJF?  I do understand that in a 3-way like this, there is no ranking that can account for the head-to-head results...but I am just sayin...had IC played MUC, certainly they would be 4-2 instead of 5-1 and with a loss to SJF by many, many points, do the voters still give such a big nod (33 fan poll pts?) to IC over SJF?

Seriously, I am not criticizing the present poll, and I in fact agree with it...I am just wondering....

I think SJFs loss against Salsbury hurt them as well.  Ithaca didn't play a team like Salsbury so that is probably helping Ithaca a little too.  SJF also lost to Hartwick at home, while the IC/Wick game wasn't close at any point during that game, even though it might not have appeared to have been as bad as the SJF/IC game. 

I could see more of a case for SJF if SJF had beaten Salsbury, or if IC had some closer games in the past few weeks.

[redswarm81]

Oh....why do I do this...Just curious as to what the thinking is behind the present rankings of IC-'WICK-SJF?  Obviously, IC BEAT 'Wick in a shootout, so they go ahead of them...right!  And 'Wick snuck past SJF at SJF on homecoming, so 'Wick gets the nod over SJF....but in the only pure thumping (definition: alot to a little) SJF whacked IC....so obviously IC gets the big nod over SJF?  I do understand that in a 3-way like this, there is no ranking that can account for the head-to-head results...but I am just sayin...had IC played MUC, certainly they would be 4-2 instead of 5-1 and with a loss to SJF by many, many points, do the voters still give such a big nod (33 fan poll pts?) to IC over SJF?

Seriously, I am not criticizing the present poll, and I in fact agree with it...I am just wondering....

I can understand putting SJF, with its three losses, behind Ithaca and Hartwick. That said, I dont' think I'd be able to fit TWO teams between SJF and the others.

[HHawks]

Oh....why do I do this...Just curious as to what the thinking is behind the present rankings of IC-'WICK-SJF?  Obviously, IC BEAT 'Wick in a shootout, so they go ahead of them...right!  And 'Wick snuck past SJF at SJF on homecoming, so 'Wick gets the nod over SJF....but in the only pure thumping (definition: alot to a little) SJF whacked IC....so obviously IC gets the big nod over SJF?  I do understand that in a 3-way like this, there is no ranking that can account for the head-to-head results...but I am just sayin...had IC played MUC, certainly they would be 4-2 instead of 5-1 and with a loss to SJF by many, many points, do the voters still give such a big nod (33 fan poll pts?) to IC over SJF?

Seriously, I am not criticizing the present poll, and I in fact agree with it...I am just wondering....

I think SJFs loss against Salsbury hurt them as well.  Ithaca didn't play a team like Salsbury so that is probably helping Ithaca a little too.  SJF also lost to Hartwick at home, while the IC/Wick game wasn't close at any point during that game, even though it might not have appeared to have been as bad as the SJF/IC game. 

I could see more of a case for SJF if SJF had beaten Salsbury, or if IC had some closer games in the past few weeks.

With 11:04 left in the 3rd quarter, Ithaca was only up 41-35. If a couple breaks had went hartwick's way we have a much much closer game.

[Jonny Utah]

Oh....why do I do this...Just curious as to what the thinking is behind the present rankings of IC-'WICK-SJF?  Obviously, IC BEAT 'Wick in a shootout, so they go ahead of them...right!  And 'Wick snuck past SJF at SJF on homecoming, so 'Wick gets the nod over SJF....but in the only pure thumping (definition: alot to a little) SJF whacked IC....so obviously IC gets the big nod over SJF?  I do understand that in a 3-way like this, there is no ranking that can account for the head-to-head results...but I am just sayin...had IC played MUC, certainly they would be 4-2 instead of 5-1 and with a loss to SJF by many, many points, do the voters still give such a big nod (33 fan poll pts?) to IC over SJF?

Seriously, I am not criticizing the present poll, and I in fact agree with it...I am just wondering....

I think SJFs loss against Salsbury hurt them as well.  Ithaca didn't play a team like Salsbury so that is probably helping Ithaca a little too.  SJF also lost to Hartwick at home, while the IC/Wick game wasn't close at any point during that game, even though it might not have appeared to have been as bad as the SJF/IC game. 

I could see more of a case for SJF if SJF had beaten Salsbury, or if IC had some closer games in the past few weeks.

With 11:04 left in the 3rd quarter, Ithaca was only up 41-35. If a couple breaks had went hartwick's way we have a much much closer game.

Yea you are right the score was close at that point.  But if you saw the game like I did, Hartwick had a horrible game for the most part and their defense was embarrassing.

[HHawks]

Oh....why do I do this...Just curious as to what the thinking is behind the present rankings of IC-'WICK-SJF?  Obviously, IC BEAT 'Wick in a shootout, so they go ahead of them...right!  And 'Wick snuck past SJF at SJF on homecoming, so 'Wick gets the nod over SJF....but in the only pure thumping (definition: alot to a little) SJF whacked IC....so obviously IC gets the big nod over SJF?  I do understand that in a 3-way like this, there is no ranking that can account for the head-to-head results...but I am just sayin...had IC played MUC, certainly they would be 4-2 instead of 5-1 and with a loss to SJF by many, many points, do the voters still give such a big nod (33 fan poll pts?) to IC over SJF?

Seriously, I am not criticizing the present poll, and I in fact agree with it...I am just wondering....

I think SJFs loss against Salsbury hurt them as well.  Ithaca didn't play a team like Salsbury so that is probably helping Ithaca a little too.  SJF also lost to Hartwick at home, while the IC/Wick game wasn't close at any point during that game, even though it might not have appeared to have been as bad as the SJF/IC game. 

I could see more of a case for SJF if SJF had beaten Salsbury, or if IC had some closer games in the past few weeks.

With 11:04 left in the 3rd quarter, Ithaca was only up 41-35. If a couple breaks had went hartwick's way we have a much much closer game.

Yea you are right the score was close at that point.  But if you saw the game like I did, Hartwick had a horrible game for the most part and their defense was embarrassing.

Thats true. I was at the game. Hartwick played the worse defense I've ever seen. Im saying they had 3 fumbles, and 2 interceptions (one for a touchdown, and the other as they were driving to score before halftime) and they still put 42 points up on a very good Ithaca team.

[DanPadavona]

I just noticed that Frostburg beat Brockport this year by two touchdowns and that Brockport has been fairly competitive in the NJAC.

Kind of makes Ithacas win versus Frostburg a little more impressive in my mind.

I don't know Jonny.  It's difficult to say, because there are so many contrasting variables.  The first which comes to mind is that Brockport is obviously playing better now than they were at the start of the season.

But also, Montclair beat Wilkes, and Albright and a mediocre NJAC West Conn basically were a stalemate. Lycoming, Wilkes, and Albright all appear to be about the same in overall quality, yet IC struggled to get by Lycoming.  Should we then draw the conclusion that IC and West Conn would be a stalemate?

At this point there is so much parity in the East in 2008 that you have to stop over analyzing all of the linkages and just assess the overall body of work.  This will get more confusing if and when Cortland loses a game, which is a strong possibility given Cortaca remains, as does TCNJ and Brockport which each have winning records against Cortland over the last decade+.

[pg04]

I think if Division 3 implemented the BCS this would all be clearer 

[Jonny Utah]

I just noticed that Frostburg beat Brockport this year by two touchdowns and that Brockport has been fairly competitive in the NJAC.

Kind of makes Ithacas win versus Frostburg a little more impressive in my mind.

I don't know Jonny.  It's difficult to say, because there are so many contrasting variables.  The first which comes to mind is that Brockport is obviously playing better now than they were at the start of the season.

But also, Montclair beat Wilkes, and Albright and a mediocre NJAC West Conn basically were a stalemate. Lycoming, Wilkes, and Albright all appear to be about the same in overall quality, yet IC struggled to get by Lycoming.  Should we then draw the conclusion that IC and West Conn would be a stalemate?

At this point there is so much parity in the East in 2008 that you have to stop over analyzing all of the linkages and just assess the overall body of work.  This will get more confusing if and when Cortland loses a game, which is a strong possibility given Cortaca remains, as does TCNJ and Brockport which each have winning records against Cortland over the last decade+.

Yea, Im not loooking too much into it.  Ithaca scoring over 50 points twice this season against decent (not horrible I should say) teams is probably more impressive.

[rams1102]

I just noticed that Frostburg beat Brockport this year by two touchdowns and that Brockport has been fairly competitive in the NJAC.

Kind of makes Ithacas win versus Frostburg a little more impressive in my mind.

I don't know Jonny.  It's difficult to say, because there are so many contrasting variables.  The first which comes to mind is that Brockport is obviously playing better now than they were at the start of the season.

But also, Montclair beat Wilkes, and Albright and a mediocre NJAC West Conn basically were a stalemate. Lycoming, Wilkes, and Albright all appear to be about the same in overall quality, yet IC struggled to get by Lycoming.  Should we then draw the conclusion that IC and West Conn would be a stalemate?

At this point there is so much parity in the East in 2008 that you have to stop over analyzing all of the linkages and just assess the overall body of work.  This will get more confusing if and when Cortland loses a game, which is a strong possibility given Cortaca remains, as does TCNJ and Brockport which each have winning records against Cortland over the last decade+.

Dan, I agree. Let's wait and see what shakes out after Week #9. There are too many possibilities for Pool "C" right now. The list would be endless and everyone would have good arguments. IMHO, (1) loss gives you a pretty good shot at a Pool "C" and (2) losses is a major crap shoot.

[gobombers15]

Hawks, trotting out the "it was 41-35 in the 3rd qtr" argument is the definiton of misleading. Yes, that was the score after Hartwick scored on their first possession of the 2nd half, but anybody at that game knew Hartwick's D was not coming close to stopping Ithaca's attack while IC's defense was making some plays. I was certainly never worried.

To borrow an analogy from tennis, Hartwick was still down a break at that point. Problem is, Ithaca's offense, with help from a porous Hartwick defense, looked like Rafael Nadal on clay that game. In other words, Hartwick's defense wasn't going to break Ithaca's offense and you knew Hartwick's offense would have some empty possessions since they were turning it over so much. I think the final result was sufficiently representative of the ebbs and flows of that game.

Re: Why is Ithaca so far ahead of Fisher since Fisher beat Ithaca?

1) Because Fisher has lost two games, on their home field no less, since the Ithaca game. Ithaca has lost no games since that day.

2) Fisher is 5-3, Ithaca is 6-1.

3) Ithaca's loss came on the road, Fisher has lost two games at home.

Look, I respect the hell out of Fisher for scheduling MUC and Salisbury. But they lost those games. If they won them, it would have been reflected in the poll. You just can't ignore losses because they were against tough teams. And arguing "well, we proved we were better than them on the field" is pointless, too, since that would get us all three sets of fans saying "well, we beat _____, and they beat you."

And equally flawed is the argument that "if Ithaca played ____, they would've lost that game." Yeah, and if Penn State scheduled Oklahoma, Texas and USC, they'd have three losses right now. But they didn't, so they don't. Bad argument.