Best D3 Conferences

[02 Warhawk]

You want handicap, the sciac wont let the coaches have face to face contact with recruits only phone and mail. My son sort of blew off the calls thinking they werent that interested.We finally visited the campus after getting a financial package ,the coach got wind he was coming and called my son wanting to meet him personally.The rest is history loves Clu and the coach and dad couldnt be happier.I do think the sciac could really improve itself if this rule was no more.(we didnt find out about this rule till a year later).

Why is that?

[cludad]

your guess is as good as mine,but hell, linfield is down in socal recruiting and our coaches cant.I will say this,our coach has got alot more agressive recruiting j.c. players , this has helped.Once these kids figure out they are not all d-1 (cali only has 1 d-2 school) playing somewhere looks good after jc.

[dahlby]

SCIAC rule.

[cludad]

but the question is why?its to no team advantage if coaches contact players. with all the talent in cali. it could really upgrade the play in the league in all sports. I really think most kids dont know this league exists, i know my kid didnt.

[Gray Fox]

but the question is why?its to no team advantage if coaches contact players. with all the talent in cali. it could really upgrade the play in the league in all sports. I really think most kids dont know this league exists, i know my kid didnt.

That is the fault of his high school coaches, academic advisors, and parents and private coaches who are blinded by D1 sports.
The SCIAC emphasizes  academics and not athletics.  That is why Cal Tech is a prominent member regardless of wins and losses.  The league is all equal, but at a recruiting disadvantage to other schools.  Until Chapman joined, they had an advantage, too.
There was a discussion a couple of years ago (I think on the basketball board) about comparing people in other parts of the country (midwest and east) where small colleges are part of the culture.  I've been at a baseball game in Cleveland and saw many college shirts in the stands.  SCIAC shirts are rare in Southern California.   

[K-Mack]

You also call those who make this arguement "haters." I know that's a popular charge  that the left side of the political spectrum uses when they don't want to engage in valid arguementation.

How is haters a lefty term? Was the below-average rap talent Rappin 4-Tay, who created the phrase player-hater from which it emerged, also a political scientist?

Haters are people who don't like to see other people having success. This might apply in the political spectrum because a certain faction of people have no ideas of their own, but just dislike the ideas their opponents have.

It surprises me that "haters" is given a political connotation here.

Perhaps of all the things on this thread this is the last I should have kicked up.

Here's a tier-based ranking of the conferences:
http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2011/opening-october-with-a-bang

We do one every year in Kickoff, and I have done numbered, far-more-in-depth ones in the last ATN column in September for a handful of years now. If we want to stay relevant to the topic

[K-Mack]

You want handicap, the sciac wont let the coaches have face to face contact with recruits only phone and mail. My son sort of blew off the calls thinking they werent that interested.We finally visited the campus after getting a financial package ,the coach got wind he was coming and called my son wanting to meet him personally.The rest is history loves Clu and the coach and dad couldnt be happier.I do think the sciac could really improve itself if this rule was no more.(we didnt find out about this rule till a year later).

Why is that?

My *guess* would be to limit the amount of money schools spend recruiting -- although given that all schools and most of the recruits are probably within driving distance, this matters less than in other D3 conferences -- and to keep sports from growing past their perceived place in the hierarchy. A student, in theory, should be interested in the school for academics first.

Thoughts?

Strangely, I got recruited to Central Virginia from S. New Jersey off of letters mostly. This is pre-social media, pre-texting ... what caught my eye was that the team was winning, there were personal touches on the letters (i.e. Congrats on Triton's win last Friday. Did you see we beat W&L and are in first place?).

Nobody came to my games to watch me play. Some schools that I didn't end up going to called me on the phone (Muhlenberg, Ursinus). I eventually chose to go down for a visit ... I was the last guy to get a sitdown with the coach, and I had to drive back to N.J. not Richmond! I didn't hold it against them.

What really worked in my experience was synergy between football, the admissions office and financial aid. I got offers to be in the honors program, and I was contacted by folks in admissions, and then offered a competitive financial aid package so that when other private schools were in the mix (Albright was my No. 2 choice) I didn't have to make my choice based on money.

I definitely eliminated some schools based on their lack of interest after they initially made contact (Widener, Catholic, Northeastern).

The point I'm trying to make is that having a school be interested was a very big factor for me, but in my case it was all done without face-to-face contact with the coaches, except at an event R-MC held for prospective recruits. Getting me on campus finished the deal though, as the feel I got from the students there -- guys who are my friends to this day -- gave Randolph-Macon the edge over Albright in my Final 2.

I wonder how much recruiting has changed in 15-20 years.

I think I have ideas for 2 ATNs now; that and a more detailed examination of conference limitations (SCIAC and MWC special rules, 100-man limits, etc.) as well as individual schools' limitations. Add them to the list.

[cludad]

K-Mack you are corrcect about the academics.But here in Cal. most people do not no anything about d-3.I was one of these.G fox makes a very valid point about advisors,coaches etc.My opinon is the ncaa needs to do a better job at promoting this division.(this Is what college sports is all about)Iguess no money no promo.They need to but some games on t.v. to show that these kids can play.when coach mac explained the financial things to us it made
clu a very viable option.(had sticker shock before).I try to promo d3 now to kids but most are geared towards d1 or jc .(every kid is going to be a pro!).I do know that for my son he/we couldnt be happier,even if i will be paying school awhile.(INVESTMENT).

[retagent]

Pardon me for not having the broad knowledge that some have regarding the term "haters." It's one of those inadequacies I will try to remedy. My life will be fuller for it.

My only point was that labelling people as haters, relieves the name caller from actually engaging in an argument on the merits of that argument. Again, mea culpa.

[02 Warhawk]

Pardon me for not having the broad knowledge that some have regarding the term "haters." It's one of those inadequacies I will try to remedy. My life will be fuller for it.

My only point was that labelling people as haters, relieves the name caller from actually engaging in an argument on the merits of that argument. Again, mea culpa.

I guess I didn't provide enough points in my blog article. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

The NCAA will never do more to "promote" Division III football because it's not a sound investment.  While I would love to see more emphasis on the "student" and less on the "athlete" portion, even I will concede that the NCAA is not going to pony up THEIR OWN MONEY to show Division III games on TV (and there's no reason that they should other than "charity").

cludad, your point is well taken that (in some regions of the country) there is very much of a "D-I or bust" attitude, and unfortunately I'm not surprised that your son had scarcely heard of the SCIAC beforehand.  I second Gray Fox's point that small colleges seem to be a bigger part of the culture in the Northeast and the Midwest.  As anecdotal evidence, I grew up in southeastern Pennsylvania, and our local paper ran stories about the local Division II and Division III team every week; I grew up knowing that small college football was a very viable option because I'd seen them in the newspaper every week.

My recruitment experience is a "modernized" version of K-Mack's (sorry, Keith, but you're old!) in the sense that most of it occurred via e-mail.  During my junior season, I fired up the Internet and started looking for schools that had i) a sterling academic reputationd and ii) a respectable-to-good Division II/III football program.  I narrowed my list to about 10 realistic possibilities and started e-mailing coaches.  The guys that e-mailed and/or me back all requested a highlight tape and transcripts, and the interested parties kept in touch primarily through e-mail.  I eventually met three coaches face-to-face, but by that time I was already pretty well sold on each of their schools as a realistic possibility.  The lack of "face-to-face" recruiting (at least EARLY in the process) certainly matters little in this day and age of e-mails, texting, and Twitter.

[cludad]

Dont you think the ncaa could throw in a d3 game when they sell the rights to espn,(espn has a million channels) heck, espn puts hs on national tv.Your right about todays tech., but a face to face makes a kid feel wanted. I also think it helps promote the college to other kids when a coach shows up to a school.(i can only speak on cal.)D3 sounds great in the middle and eastern parts of the country,seems like ther is alot a support.

[Always.A.Titan]

Dont you think the ncaa could throw in a d3 game when they sell the rights to espn,(espn has a million channels) heck, espn puts hs on national tv.Your right about todays tech., but a face to face makes a kid feel wanted. I also think it helps promote the college to other kids when a coach shows up to a school.(i can only speak on cal.)D3 sounds great in the middle and eastern parts of the country,seems like ther is alot a support.

With all of the channels, you would think that ESPN could fit D3 in somewhere. I believe the Stagg Bowl got pushed off of mainstream ESPN and is now on ESPNU. I could be wrong on that. Anyway, I think it would be great to get some D3 games on tv. A few views here and there could do wonders for it. Imagine what people would see if they were able to see good rivalries or top tier teams playing each other. I only saw Wabash-Depauw on film before we played Wabash in the playoffs a couple years ago and I was thoroughly impressed with the crowd and the game. D3 is sort of a hidden treasure to football fans everywhere.

[02 Warhawk]

ESPN will never put DIII games on the air (apart from the Stagg Bowl). There's not enough national interest out there for it. If you don't believe me, look at the stands for the majority of these DIII games. There's more empty seats than occupied seats for most DIII football events.

I agree with ExTartanPlayer...it's not a good investment for the NCAA.

[jknezek]

What could ESPN or the NCAA possibly gain by putting D3 sports on tv? There isn't much of a following outside of a small clique of former coaches, players, and alumni for each school. Most of the schools are small, and very few people outside former players have any real affinity for the teams after graduation. I'm proud of W&L when it gets recognized as a national liberal arts school, and I'm happy when the teams play well, but if you ask which I prefer, it's the education accolades.

If there is a choice on TV between an SEC game between 2 teams I don't care about, or a D3 game involving 2 teams I don't care about (pretty much any game but a W&L game), guess which one I'm going to watch? Like it or not, the SEC game is going to be better athlete-student football. The D3 game is probably full of better student-athletes, but that doesn't make it comparably entertaining. I think the schools that are working hard at putting games on the internet so interested parties can watch are doing the best things possible. I know every W&L home game this year can be watched live, and I've caught most of them. If I was a coach, I'd sure mention that to mom and dad. Want to watch your kid but can't make the drive to Lexington? No problem. But is the next door neighbor, with no connection to W&L, going to flip to ESPN5 to watch W&L play Randolph-Macon? Can't see that happening.

TV brings money and pressure. Two things I didn't want to see infiltrate h.s. sports, too late thanks to ESPN and the 1000s of cable channels that now need programming, and two things I definitely don't want contaminating the D3 game. I also don't see the point of trying to "promote" D3. If you are convincing kids to come get the best education possible, and maybe start versus being a practice player at a big school, I don't see how being on TV helps with that argument.

Of course, I come from the mid-atlantic and D3 doesn't have an unknown quality about it. Most kids in the mid-atlantic know they aren't going to play D1 by the time they are sophomores in h.s. and D3 becomes a way to keep playing the game they love at the best school they can go to. I think the "For the Love of the Game" t-shirts say it all. That's the point of D3, not trying to make teams into TV commodities.