Pool C -- 2007

Schwami · October 31, 2007, 12:43:46 PM

Quote from: usee on October 31, 2007, 11:49:37 AM
Quote from: hscoach on October 31, 2007, 10:52:05 AM
I'd be absolutely shocked if a 9-1 Wheaton didn't make the show as a Pool C. Also keep in mind the OAC doesn't have a 1 loss team so that's one less Pool C competitor the CCIW has to worry about.

I would be surprised too. My point is that we may be figuring out if they are taking a bid or not (A vs C) on Nov 10.

I'd be surprised too, but keep in mind that Wheaton could be behind Mt. St. Joseph in the North Region Pool C pecking order. Mt. St. Joseph has a win over IWU, and Wheaton would have a loss to IWU. Record vs. common opponents is a primary criterion. If only 8 teams from the North make the playoffs, there are 6 AQ's and a possible B for Case Western, leaving only one C from the North.

usee · October 31, 2007, 01:02:32 PM

Quote from: Schwami on October 31, 2007, 12:43:46 PM
Quote from: usee on October 31, 2007, 11:49:37 AM
Quote from: hscoach on October 31, 2007, 10:52:05 AM
I'd be absolutely shocked if a 9-1 Wheaton didn't make the show as a Pool C. Also keep in mind the OAC doesn't have a 1 loss team so that's one less Pool C competitor the CCIW has to worry about.

I would be surprised too. My point is that we may be figuring out if they are taking a bid or not (A vs C) on Nov 10.

I'd be surprised too, but keep in mind that Wheaton could be behind Mt. St. Joseph in the North Region Pool C pecking order. Mt. St. Joseph has a win over IWU, and Wheaton would have a loss to IWU. Record vs. common opponents is a primary criterion. If only 8 teams from the North make the playoffs, there are 6 AQ's and a possible B for Case Western, leaving only one C from the North.

Good point on common opponents but to clarify, my understanding is pool C's are chosen nationally, not by region. the committee will taket the 7 best pool c's and figure out how to place them geographically after selection. In addition, Wheaton's SOS/QOWI is much better than MSJ but that too will be weighed against all the other teams.

Schwami · October 31, 2007, 01:16:53 PM

usee, I believe Pat can clarify this, but my understanding is that when the committee takes the first Pool C candidate, they compare the top ranked candidate from each of the four regions. Let's say the first team taken is from the West. The second team is then selected by comparing the top ranked teams from the other three regions and the team originally ranked second in the West. So while the Pool C selections are made by comparing teams nationally, it is still somewhat affected by the initial rankings within regions.

Pat Coleman · October 31, 2007, 01:45:47 PM

New SOS numbers:
http://www.d3football.com/strength-of-schedule/2007

Yes, Schwami, that's correct to our understanding.

Just Bill · October 31, 2007, 01:56:23 PM

Quote from: Schwami on October 31, 2007, 01:16:53 PM
usee, I believe Pat can clarify this, but my understanding is that when the committee takes the first Pool C candidate, they compare the top ranked candidate from each of the four regions. Let's say the first team taken is from the West. The second team is then selected by comparing the top ranked teams from the other three regions and the team originally ranked second in the West. So while the Pool C selections are made by comparing teams nationally, it is still somewhat affected by the initial rankings within regions.

I always think of it as a table with 4 chairs, one chair for each region. The top candidate from each region sits in one chair with the rest of the candidates from that region lined up behind them in the order they are ranked. The committee then looks at the four teams in the chairs and picks the best one. That team is in and the next team from that region sits in the chair. After seven picks, the shop is closed.

So the disadvantage to being the second or third candidate in your region, is that you don't get up to the table until the guy in front of you gets in. So even if you're better than the three other teams at the table, you can't even be considered until the chair in front of your region clears.

usee · October 31, 2007, 02:41:49 PM

Quote from: Just Bill on October 31, 2007, 01:56:23 PM
Quote from: Schwami on October 31, 2007, 01:16:53 PM
usee, I believe Pat can clarify this, but my understanding is that when the committee takes the first Pool C candidate, they compare the top ranked candidate from each of the four regions. Let's say the first team taken is from the West. The second team is then selected by comparing the top ranked teams from the other three regions and the team originally ranked second in the West. So while the Pool C selections are made by comparing teams nationally, it is still somewhat affected by the initial rankings within regions.
I always think of it as a table with 4 chairs, one chair for each region. The top candidate from each region sits in one chair with the rest of the candidates from that region lined up behind them in the order they are ranked. The committee then looks at the four teams in the chairs and picks the best one. That team is in and the next team from that region sits in the chair. After seven picks, the shop is closed.

So the disadvantage to being the second or third candidate in your region, is that you don't get up to the table until the guy in front of you gets in. So even if you're better than the three other teams at the table, you can't even be considered until the chair in front of your region clears.

this is all very helpful and some of it is new to me. If I am reading it right Schwami's point, however, is that the 6 AQ's in the north would limit the number of C's they may get which I don't hear anyone saying is correct. Either way, the question for a 1 loss wheaton team is "where do we rank relative to other C candidates in the North".

MSJ and Case being the other two possibles.

Knightstalker · October 31, 2007, 03:32:03 PM

Quote from: usee on October 31, 2007, 02:41:49 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on October 31, 2007, 01:56:23 PM
Quote from: Schwami on October 31, 2007, 01:16:53 PM
usee, I believe Pat can clarify this, but my understanding is that when the committee takes the first Pool C candidate, they compare the top ranked candidate from each of the four regions. Let's say the first team taken is from the West. The second team is then selected by comparing the top ranked teams from the other three regions and the team originally ranked second in the West. So while the Pool C selections are made by comparing teams nationally, it is still somewhat affected by the initial rankings within regions.
I always think of it as a table with 4 chairs, one chair for each region. The top candidate from each region sits in one chair with the rest of the candidates from that region lined up behind them in the order they are ranked. The committee then looks at the four teams in the chairs and picks the best one. That team is in and the next team from that region sits in the chair. After seven picks, the shop is closed.

So the disadvantage to being the second or third candidate in your region, is that you don't get up to the table until the guy in front of you gets in. So even if you're better than the three other teams at the table, you can't even be considered until the chair in front of your region clears.

this is all very helpful and some of it is new to me. If I am reading it right Schwami's point, however, is that the 6 AQ's in the north would limit the number of C's they may get which I don't hear anyone saying is correct. Either way, the question for a 1 loss wheaton team is "where do we rank relative to other C candidates in the North".

MSJ and Case being the other two possibles.

Look at the regional rankings and that will give you an idea how they rank relative to the other Pool C candidates in the region.

d-train · October 31, 2007, 03:51:40 PM

Quote from: Knightstalker on October 31, 2007, 03:32:03 PM
Look at the regional rankings and that will give you an idea how they rank relative to the other Pool C candidates in the region.

Those are out later today (Wed.), right? Still some very pivital games to be played these last two weeks.

usee · October 31, 2007, 03:55:58 PM

Quote from: Knightstalker on October 31, 2007, 03:32:03 PM
Look at the regional rankings and that will give you an idea how they rank relative to the other Pool C candidates in the region.

Yes and no. currently wheaton is undefeated and the theory is their 1 loss may come via their last game on the 10th. so it is speculation as to how far they drop in the regional rankings if they have 1 loss. So if MSJ is currently #7 and IWU is #10...if wheaton loses to the #10 team in the region, how far do they fall from #2? past MSJ? that's the key. if they stay in the top 6 they are likely the North's best pool C team. What about Case who currently sits at #4 in the North? if they lose, they will drop but still be a pool C?

So many questions, so many variables. I can't wait for Pat's first playoff prediction page. When is that Pat?

MonroviaCat · October 31, 2007, 04:08:47 PM

Newest Regional Rankings Released:

No. Name In-Region Overall
East
1. Rensselaer 7-0 7-0
2. The College of New Jersey 7-1 7-1
3. Curry 9-0 9-0
4. St. John Fisher 8-1 8-1
5. Albright 7-1 7-1
6. Alfred 7-1 7-1
7. Hobart 6-2 6-2
8. Union (New York) 5-2 5-2
9. Cortland State 5-2 6-2
10. Widener 5-2 6-2
North
1. Mount Union 8-0 8-0
2. Wheaton (Illinois) 8-0 8-0
3. Wabash 8-0 8-0
4. Case Western Reserve 6-0 8-0
5. Franklin 7-1 7-1
6. Mount St. Joseph 7-1 7-1
7. Capital 6-2 6-2
8. Wittenberg 6-2 6-2
9. Illinois Wesleyan 6-2 6-2
10. North Central (Illinois) 6-2 6-2
South
1. Washington and Jefferson 5-0 8-0
2. Wesley 6-1 8-1
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-1 7-1
4. Muhlenberg 8-0 8-0
5. Salisbury 4-1 8-1
6. Waynesburg 6-1 7-1
7. Trinity (Texas) 6-1 7-1
8. Randolph Macon 7-1 7-1
9. Ursinus 6-1 7-1
10. Hampden-Sydney 5-2 6-2
West
1. Wisconsin-Whitewater 7-0 7-1
2. St. John's (Minnesota) 8-0 9-0
3. Central (Iowa) 8-0 9-0
4. St. Norbert 8-0 9-0
5. Bethel (Minnesota) 7-1 7-1
6. Wartburg 8-1 8-1
7. Linfield 4-1 5-2
8. Occidental 6-1 6-1
9. Redlands 6-1 7-1
10. Whitworth 6-1 6-2

Knightstalker · October 31, 2007, 04:11:33 PM

Case is a pool B team, they will only have a bearing on the Pool C bids if they do not receive a Pool B bid. This season one of the Pool B teams may take away a C bid. You can look at Wheaton and the other unbeaten or one loss teams and measure their chances against each other using the selection criteria. Or you can be patient and wait to see how the season ends.

I believe they rank the regions, then remove the Pool A teams and move everyone up accordingly and then review the Pool C teams against each other nationally using regional criteria. As stated earlier, when a team gets selected another takes their place on the list and they are then discussed.

HScoach · October 31, 2007, 04:32:20 PM

Quote from: Knightstalker on October 31, 2007, 04:11:33 PM.....Or you can be patient and wait to see how the season ends.

Where's the fun in that?

Knightstalker · October 31, 2007, 05:16:21 PM

Quote from: hscoach on October 31, 2007, 04:32:20 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on October 31, 2007, 04:11:33 PM.....Or you can be patient and wait to see how the season ends.

Where's the fun in that?

I am just giving out options, I am not responsible anybodies fun except my own.

Ralph Turner · October 31, 2007, 07:22:37 PM

Let's start putting names and faces together. We shall assume that the highest ranked team in a conference will get the Pool A bid.

East Region
No. Name In-Region Overall
1. RPI 7-0 7-1 LL
2. New Jersey 7-1 7-1 NJAC
3. Curry 9-0 9-0 NEFC
4. St. John Fisher 8-1 8-1 E8
5. Albright 7-1 7-1 MAC
6. Alfred 7-1 7-1 Pool C E8 At Ithaca, at SJF
7. Hobart 6-2 6-2 Pool C LL At Union, at Rochester
8. Union 5-2 5-2 Pool C LL At Hobart, at RPI
9. Cortland State 5-2 6-2 Pool C NJAC Rowan, at Ithaca
10. Widener 5-2 6-2 Pool C MAC Albright, at Wilkes

(How many fans has Ithaca picked up from other Pool C teams this afternoon?

)

North Region
No. Name In-Region Overall
1. Mount Union 8-0 8-0 OAC
2. Wheaton (Ill.) 8-0 8-0 CCIW
3. Wabash 8-0 8-0 NCAC
4. Case Western Reserve 6-0 8-0 UAA Pool B #2 Wash U, Ohio Wesleyan
5. Franklin 7-1 7-1 HCAC
6. Mount St. Joseph 7-1 7-1 Pool C HCAC At Bluffton, Thomas More
7. Capital 6-2 6-2 Pool C OAC At Muskingum, BWC
8. Wittenberg 6-2 6-2 Pool C NCAC At Allegheny, Hiram
9. Illinois Wesleyan 6-2 6-2 Pool C CCIW At NCC, Wheaton
10. North Central 6-2 6-2 Pool C CCIW IWU, at Carthage

NR Concordia WI IBC
NR Hope MIAA

South Region
No. Name In-Region Overall
1. Washington and Jefferson 5-0 8-0 Pres AC
2. Wesley 6-1 8-1 Pool B #1 at Morrisville State
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-1 7-1 ASC
4. Muhlenberg 8-0 8-0 CC
5. Salisbury 4-1 8-1 Pool B #3 Frostburg St at Annapolis
6. Waynesburg 6-1 7-1 Pool C Pres AC Geneva, at Westminster PA
7. Trinity (Texas) 6-1 7-1 SCAC
8. Randolph-Macon 7-1 7-1 ODAC
9. Ursinus 6-1 7-1 Pool C CC Muhlenberg, at Dickinson
10. Hampden-Sydney 5-2 6-2 Pool C ODAC Huntingdon, at RMC

NR NCWC USAC

West Region
No. Name In-Region Overall
1. UW-Whitewater 7-0 7-1 WIAC
2. St. John's 8-0 9-0 MIAC
3. Central 8-0 9-0 IIAC
4. St. Norbert 8-0 9-0 MWC
5. Bethel 7-1 7-1 Pool C MIAC Augsburg at Metrodome, SJU
6. Wartburg 8-1 8-1 Pool C IIAC at Cornell, Central
7. Linfield 4-1 5-2 Pool B/C NWC at Whitworth, L&C
8. Occidental 6-1 6-1 Pool C SCIAC (CLU has tie-breaker) Chapman, at Whittier
9. Redlands 6-1 7-1 Pool C SCIAC Whittier, at CLU
10. Whitworth 6-1 6-2 Pool B/C Linfield, at Puget Sound

NR Cal Lutheran SCIAC at PP, Redlands

admirals_vt · October 31, 2007, 07:31:30 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2007, 07:22:37 PM
Let's start putting names and faces together. We shall assume that the highest ranked team in a conference will get the Pool A bid.

East Region
No. Name In-Region Overall
1. RPI 7-0 7-1 LL
2. New Jersey 7-1 7-1 NJAC
3. Curry 9-0 9-0 NEFC
4. St. John Fisher 8-1 8-1 E8
5. Albright 7-1 7-1 MAC
6. Alfred 7-1 7-1 Pool C E8

North Region
No. Name In-Region Overall
1. Mount Union 8-0 8-0 OAC
2. Wheaton (Ill.) 8-0 8-0 CCIW
3. Wabash 8-0 8-0 NCAC
4. Case Western Reserve 6-0 8-0 UAA Pool B #2
5. Franklin 7-1 7-1 HCAC
6. Mount St. Joseph 7-1 7-1 Pool C HCAC

NR Concordia WI IBC
NR Hope MIAA

South Region
No. Name In-Region Overall
1. Washington and Jefferson 5-0 8-0 Pres AC
2. Wesley 6-1 8-1 Pool B #1
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-1 7-1 ASC
4. Muhlenberg 8-0 8-0 CC
5. Salisbury 4-1 8-1 Pool B #3
6. Waynesburg 6-1 7-1 Pool C Pres AC
7. Trinity (Texas) 6-1 7-1 SCAC
8. Randolph-Macon 7-1 7-1 ODAC
9. Ursinus 6-1 7-1 Pool C CC

NR NCWC USAC

West Region
No. Name In-Region Overall
1. UW-Whitewater 7-0 7-1 WIAC
2. St. John's 8-0 9-0 MIAC
3. Central 8-0 9-0 IIAC
4. St. Norbert 8-0 9-0 MWC
5. Bethel 7-1 7-1 Pool C MIAC
6. Wartburg 8-1 8-1 Pool C IIAC

8. Occidental 6-1 6-1 Pool C SCIAC (CLU has tie-breaker)
9. Redlands 6-1 7-1 Pool C SCIAC

NR Cal Lutheran SCIAC

And then lets take out all 2-loss teams (for the sake of clarity)

There is your field as of today