Pool C -- 2007

[Pat Coleman]

Not necessarily based in reality, but yes, it fits your conspiracy theory, Foss.

The committee has left the East short of eight teams before. Why change now?

[Pat Coleman]

If geography was an issue, they simply could've left Widener in the East, which can travel to Mount Union as easily as it could to Case. They could've left Concordia (Wis.) in the North. And they could've included Whitworth in the West.

In fact, Bob, doesn't selecting Whitworth keep more people in their natural brackets? I don't get your assumptions.

[Foss]

Pat, yes it does parallel my view, I don't deny that. 

But, I honestly believe there were some decisions made this year based on economics, not on which team(s) was most deserving. I'm not saying it happens every year, but this year I do believe that.

Pat, do you in your heart of hearts believe that none of the selections were financially driven this year? Do you really think THREE teams from the E8 (particularly a two loss Ithaca team with a 21 point home loss) and zero teams from the NWC, including it's one regional loss champ appears legit based on the primary selection criteria?

[Pat Coleman]

No, honestly, I really don't. The same number of first-round flights if Whitworth is in or out -- and fewer flights than last year regardless. The only budget based on first-round flight avoidance since that's the only matchup they can control in the bracket.

Motivated by getting multiple teams in from power conferences? (And yes, the E8 qualifies.) Guess so.

[Foss]

Fair enough, if that's what you believe. I guess we just disagree on this.

[Pat Coleman]

Well, I've actually talked to the people involved in making more than one sport's bracket over the course of many years and that's what their mandate is. So my belief comes from years of unbiased observation.

[Foss]

I know that, Pat. Your background gives great credence to your belief.

With your years of unbiased observation, have you been satisfied with the extent of the committee's explanation as to why a 5-2 in-region UWEC suddenly jumped a 8-1 in region Whitworth it had been trailing in the regional rankings? I know you've posted what the committee's rationale was on this site, although their reasoning seemed a bit vague. Your focus now obviously needs to be on the games, not further "investigating" this particular decision. But listening to the ATN podcast, both you and Keith still seem a bit perplexed and you say you haven't really been able to figure out why the decision was made. Are you at all surprised the committee has not given more specifics on the sudden change?

[Bob.Gregg]

Well, I've actually talked to the people involved in making more than one sport's bracket over the course of many years and that's what their mandate is. So my belief comes from years of unbiased observation.

For accuracy's sake, I hope that's not the same people who told you the "last 25% of the season" criteria wasn't going to be considered this year.

[Jonny Utah]

Bottom line is the the NCAA says the criteria will be "reviewed".  Untill you see the NCAA put out some sort of BCS type formula to rank d3 teams, no one should ever be surpised when d3 playoff selections come out.

[Knightstalker]

It appears to me that the NCAA has made a concerted effort to get the best teams in and this season did a very good job.  I think most of the brackets are fair and as well balanced as they can be.  I also think some posters will never be happy with the results, but as we used to say in the Navy, "the only happy sailor is a bitching sailor."  I think this fits for post patterns and posting up.

[Bob.Gregg]

Not necessarily based in reality, but yes, it fits your conspiracy theory, Foss.

The committee has left the East short of eight teams before. Why change now?

Not necessarily NOT based in reality either.

The committee has left the East short of eight teams before.  In a 32-team field, they've never left the East short of SEVEN teams, and THAT'S the dilemma they faced.

[Foss]

It appears to me that the NCAA has made a concerted effort to get the best teams in and this season did a very good job.  I think most of the brackets are fair and as well balanced as they can be.  I also think some posters will never be happy with the results, but as we used to say in the Navy, "the only happy sailor is a bitching sailor."  I think this fits for post patterns and posting up.

Hmmm, interesting you would say this and then 11 minutes later state "Ithaca should not have to travel to MUC in the first round." And not long before that state the NCAA should have seeded the regions "using some common sense."

Appears you yourself have some complaints about who plays who in the 1st round and how the NCAA seeded the regions. Might you at times also be one of the sailors you describe, and I'm not referring to the happy sailor? 

I disagree, I feel that MUC would have been put in the East anyway, the committee took advantage of being able to seed what are arguably the four best teams as number ones.

You also did not seem to get the point of my post.  Ithaca is definitely a better team than Curry (personally I think William Paterson and Kean are probably better teams than Curry but that is beside the point).  I am 99% sure that Ithaca is a much better team than Hartwick.  Although I wouldn't want to play Hartwick at Hartwick, they are very good at home.  Ithaca should not have to travel to MUC in the first round, it should be Hartwick or Curry.  Outside of MUC, Hartwick and Curry the other five teams are a push in the East.

I like the fact the NCAA put what they considered the four best teams as the number one seeds but they should have gone one step further and seeded the regions using some common sense.

[Knightstalker]

It appears to me that the NCAA has made a concerted effort to get the best teams in and this season did a very good job.  I think most of the brackets are fair and as well balanced as they can be.  I also think some posters will never be happy with the results, but as we used to say in the Navy, "the only happy sailor is a bitching sailor."  I think this fits for post patterns and posting up.

Hmmm, interesting you would say this and then 11 minutes later state "Ithaca should not have to travel to MUC in the first round." And not long before that state the NCAA should have seeded the regions "using some common sense."

Appears you yourself have some complaints about who plays who in the 1st round and how the NCAA seeded the regions. Might you at times also be one of the sailors you describe, and I'm not referring to the happy sailor? 

I disagree, I feel that MUC would have been put in the East anyway, the committee took advantage of being able to seed what are arguably the four best teams as number ones.

You also did not seem to get the point of my post.  Ithaca is definitely a better team than Curry (personally I think William Paterson and Kean are probably better teams than Curry but that is beside the point).  I am 99% sure that Ithaca is a much better team than Hartwick.  Although I wouldn't want to play Hartwick at Hartwick, they are very good at home.  Ithaca should not have to travel to MUC in the first round, it should be Hartwick or Curry.  Outside of MUC, Hartwick and Curry the other five teams are a push in the East.

I like the fact the NCAA put what they considered the four best teams as the number one seeds but they should have gone one step further and seeded the regions using some common sense.

Yes Foss, I am completely aware of what I posted.  I actually stated that Ithaca should not have to face Mount yesterday but whoever quoted me did not include the rest so I wrote it again.  I am sure the NCAA may have done the same thing in other regions but as I am not so familiar with them I just spoke of the East.

[Pat Coleman]

Not necessarily based in reality, but yes, it fits your conspiracy theory, Foss.

The committee has left the East short of eight teams before. Why change now?

Not necessarily NOT based in reality either.

The committee has left the East short of eight teams before.  In a 32-team field, they've never left the East short of SEVEN teams, and THAT'S the dilemma they faced.

Bob,

They selected these six teams:

6. New Jersey (8-2)
at 4. RPI (8-1)
at 3. Curry (11-0)
7. Hartwick (8-2)    
5. Hobart (8-2)
at 2. St. John Fisher (9-1)

They also selected Widener, which is an East team. That makes seven before they selected Ithaca.

[PA_wesleyfan]

Bottom line is the the NCAA says the criteria will be "reviewed".  Untill you see the NCAA put out some sort of BCS type formula to rank d3 teams, no one should ever be surpised when d3 playoff selections come out.

The only problem with your idea of the BCS type ranking is that the BCS is BS...If they had it their way only 6 or 7 teams each year would participate to ensure that they get the biggest bucks for the games..... All I have to say is  Appalachian State

   There will never be a way to judge East against West against South against North.  We all know the WIAC is good but my opinion is they are more on a level with the DII  teams in the east than  DIII. So if you use them and Mount Union as a
measuring stick then the other teams would play year in and year out for nothing because they can't measure up???