BB: General NY Region Talk

[AlleyCat]

I agree! ECONN should have stayed in New England. Cortland IC and RPI are always tough and have good pitching. U of R has shown they can play with good teams this year. After looking at it maybe the SUNYAC runnner up could go ahead of Fisher, but when you have 14 loses or more it will be pretty tough to get by the committee. I think if they ship somebody in they should ship a champion of a weaker league and not a pool C team.

[StarvinMarvin]

Let's not forget that a certain team who is currently 32-0 (Trinity, Conn.) was shipped in last year and it's basically the same team this year with the exception of one position player I believe, two at most but all their pitching is back.  Cortland is the one seed last year and plays Trinity in game two and faces the best pitcher other than Dougher in the tournament.  That team belonged in the NE regional last year and a team like Brockport or RPI should have had their spot.  I'm tired of people calling the NY region weak when it's the most difficult region to rectruit good players in due to weather, 33 DI programs in the state or something around there to compete with not to mention other DIII, DII and JUCO programs.  That's not to mention that if their is a STUD up here southern schools pluck them from the state.  We have lacrosse to compete with which is taking baseball players away although I understand there's other states that have lacrosse.  It's not easy being a DIII program to get good players whatsoever and all the more reason to give the NY region some respect.  You have the state of Wisconsin for example where there's one DI program in the whole state (UW-Milwaukee) so DIII schools in that state can get a second rounder like Jordan Zimmerman or a Greg Rhinehard (5th rounder for UW-Whitewater), Kevin Tomasciewicz (18th rounder for UW-Whitewater who beat Cortland in the National Championship game.  Any of those kids in NY would have gone out of state or at the least been at a DI in NY.  They certainly wouldn't have ended up at a DIII program out of high school.  NY region deserves some love!

[BaseB13]

Aren't all those reasons as to why DIII baseball in New York from top to bottom could be a little weaker?  I looked at those regional rankings and many of those New England schools are pretty solid.  Some of you need to keep in mind that the conferences those teams play in are pretty strong.  Williams isn't even regionally ranked and they just beat RPI.  Not to mention the NESCAC has Trinity and Amherst who are both ranked in their region.  The NESCAC top to bottom is as good if not better than any conference in NY.  I by no means mean to imply that NY baseball is not good at all.  But people need to keep in mind a team like Williams has been as consistently as good as Ithaca over the last 5 years, playing a comprable schedule overall, and in a significantly stronger conference, and they're not even ranked in region.  You can't argue that New England is deeper (and rightfully so they have more schools and more automatic bids) which means they have to ship a team out of region.  Take the Mid-Atlantic region as well, the NJAC is arguably the strongest conference in the country.  Those teams beat up on eachother causing some of them to have weaker records.  I do not think NY should have 8 teams appearing in regionals, that's completely absurd. 

[AlleyCat]

The NY region has done very well this year out of region. Cortalnd has beat some good New England, South and Mid Atlantic Teams. Ithaca played some California teams although they lost to all the good ones, but beat ECONN. RPI beat Ripon, Augustana and Rhode Island College who are all having great season out of region. Other teams have played some tough games against other regions making a good showing. Trinity shouldn't have even made the NCAA's last year. They didn't even qualify for their own league tourney, but qualify for the NCAA's? That would never happen to a NY team. Brockport or RPI were way more deserving. If your nor good enough to make your own league tourney, there should be no NCAA's, EVER.

[StarvinMarvin]

BaseB13....I figured that you would be the first to chime in on my comments and bring up your favorite program, Williams.  I guess those reasons I gave could be looked at as making the NY region weak but I look at it as a credit to those teams in the region who have wins against top programs across the country.  To be good in NY going up against the factors I gave is a credit to the good programs in the region.  It is not absurd to think that all NY teams can represent the region because Westfield St. was in the regional last year and they were as good as a high school JV team so what's the point?  Brockport and RPI are ten times better than them.

[scuba16]

Poppycock, so what williams beat RPI. Who threw for both teams? If it weren't their 1-4's that means nothing.
A nothing game in the middle of the week when both(at least 1) probably had league games on the weekend and threw whomever had a arm!

NY's top 4 teams every year can represent nationally without a problem. You throw a team like westfield state a bone last year and leave brockport out. Brockport could have won the NY regional last and yet they are home and I laughed watching westfield brutalize baseball in the NY regional. They are 2nd rate in NE and wouldn't even made the SUNYAC Tourney.

The problem lies in the fact that there is a option for sending teams to other regionals. Take that option away and you are left with the best from each region playing for all the marbles. You could have a 4 team ny regional and you would here no complaints from my.
How do you justify having a 7 team regional with an out of region team competing in that regional and leaving a quality NY team at home. Make it a 8 teamer and let the guys decide the thing on the field!
I hate politics and all that crap about influences on national commitee's etc..
Help me get another team in from my region and I'll help you, blah blah blah. Thats what it boils down to.

[Rick Vaughn]

Lots of complaining going on here.  Just wanted to let you know that the NE regional was disappointed that Westfield St. did not go to the Cape because it would have been a guaranteed win for their first and second opponents.  Tough luck, but just like some conferences in NY, some conferences in NE are just awful and a champion that bad is the result.  If you are tired of NE teams coming into the NY regional and winning games do the simple thing.  Beat them.

[Bob Maxwell]

I don't care what you say about Trinity last year...  record be damned, they couldn't get into their conference tournament so they should NOT have gone to the NCAA regionals in ANY region.  This year is a different story.

And for the record, I don't think anyone should be moved into another region... especially into NY.  If there are 7 AQ's in a given region, then the regions need to be realigned to equal out the AQ's in each region OR the teams need to win their conference.

Just my two cents on it...

[Rick Vaughn]

I agree on Trinity last year.  They had no business making the tournament last year.  I would say that was very political.  I don't know how involved he is, but I do know that Trin coach Bill Decker is very involved in the selection side for the tournament.

[scuba16]

Forget about the curveball ricky, give 'em the heater!

No one is complaining about NE teams, they have good teams and bad alike just like every region.
The point is NY teams and NE teams should meet 2 at different times, regular season and at the WS not in the NY region!
For the most part, NY teams fair well vs NE teams and we aint ducking anyone. Especially my squad, Cortland St!
But when you ship a team good enough to win the NE region, 2005 ECONN to NY something is not kosher.
Also, when you don't even make your own conference tourney and make the NY regional over Brockport, that is political BS at the highest level of political BS!

[BoomerIL]

Everyone here makes valid points and arguments, and I admire all of the experience expressed in your comments.

Question -  And this has probably been bantered around forever......what is the simplest, fairest, most realistic way of having consistent regional tournament alignment each and every year from the NCAA?  Is there a simple resolution, or is the NCAA trying to be democratic/political to "help" those schools or conferences get a chance at making into the tournament process altogether?  Is there too much parity in one conference as opposed to another (too many good teams in one conference and not too many in another), or is evreything based upon record?


Its just my opinion but, there should never be a team from another area/region/conference put into another region for the sake of balance!!!


What am I missing here??

[pudge27]

My 2 cents would be to agree with those that suggest that the regional tournament should have in-region teams.  If there is a particular year where one region is extremely strong and another region is very weak, I could see bringing in a team to be the 7 or 8 seed. That being said, I think that the past couple of years when ECONN and Trinity came into the NY Region didn't make sense. 

I didn't see Trinity play last year, so take this for what it's worth, but I've heard from a few sources that Trinity (talent-wise) was more like a solid 2-3 seed in any region.  I can't beleive that they were the 8th or 9th best team in their region.  Arguments about them not making their conference tourney aside, if they're good enough to put in the tourney, seed them where they should be. 

I think it would be like shipping Ithaca or RPI to another region and making them a 7 seed. 

I'm not sure if it will change any time soon, but it sure does seem like they are bent on making things more difficult.  Not to beat a dead horse, but the 7 team regional idea is just dumb.  Just pick another team and you won't need Steven Hawking to track your brackets. 

Anyone ever seen the "Go phone" commercial with Meatloaf singing to his kid?  I feel dumber for having seen it.  I'm embarassed for him. 

[OshDude]

My 2 cents would be to agree with those that suggest that the regional tournament should have in-region teams.  If there is a particular year where one region is extremely strong and another region is very weak, I could see bringing in a team to be the 7 or 8 seed. That being said, I think that the past couple of years when ECONN and Trinity came into the NY Region didn't make sense. 

I didn't see Trinity play last year, so take this for what it's worth, but I've heard from a few sources that Trinity (talent-wise) was more like a solid 2-3 seed in any region.  I can't beleive that they were the 8th or 9th best team in their region.  Arguments about them not making their conference tourney aside, if they're good enough to put in the tourney, seed them where they should be. 

I think it would be like shipping Ithaca or RPI to another region and making them a 7 seed. 

I'm not sure if it will change any time soon, but it sure does seem like they are bent on making things more difficult.  Not to beat a dead horse, but the 7 team regional idea is just dumb.  Just pick another team and you won't need Steven Hawking to track your brackets. 

Anyone ever seen the "Go phone" commercial with Meatloaf singing to his kid?  I feel dumber for having seen it.  I'm embarassed for him. 

LOL. You're late to the party. That queue started forming after he released "Two out of three ain't bad."

Oh, and there are no seven-team regionals this year – just 6s and 8s.

[Bob Maxwell]

LOL... thanks for the chuckle with the Hawking comment!

[scuba16]

The problem is that some conference's garner AQ's(automatic qualifiers, pool A) for winning the conference tournament like the SUNYAC and then you have the E-8 that doesn't get an AQ, rather they receive a pool B bid. Pool C are the leftover bids that are handed out to the teams that are most deserving that didn't win a qualifying conference touranment or get the Pool B bids. I really don't fully understand the process, but that is the gist of the ways teams can get in! This leaves alot of political jostling room in the pool B and pool C areas.

The process is flawed because you can't give every conference winner a pool A because that leaves little or no room for the good teams that don't win their conference to get in!

My suggestion would be:
-make a 64 team tournament, 8 regions, 8 teams per region and no out of region movement and have at it double elim style!
-the NCAA regional rankings would determine who gets in and who doesn't and that eleviates the Pool A, B, C nonsense.
-you need to still play the hell out of your conference touranment because that directly effects the regional rankings.
The best part is you know going into the season that you have to be in that top 8 come the 2nd week in May and it takes into account your whole body of teams played during the season!

The way I see it, this leaves way less to question than the current format and more teams get a chance!