BB: General NY Region Talk

[BaseB13]

"If Trinity had played in the NY region and got bounced after two games I could see there being a legitimate case.  However, Trinity did happen to beat the team that won the region.  Tough to say they didn't belong in NCAA's at all.  Unfortunately teams do make the tournament based on reputation sometimes.  A perfect example of this is IC in 2005 with a record of 22-13-2 going in to regional play.  Not usual IC numbers.  But guess what?  They made it to the regional final so clearly they belonged."


That's what I said.  I said Trinity beat the regional finalist in 2007.  I said some teams make the tourney because of program reputation (which may have happened with Trinity) and that in 2005 IC's record was not that great but they got in even though there were 30 game winners that were also independent that did not get in in 2005.  However, IC did make it to the regional final so it's tough to argue they didn't belond in the tournament despite a subpar year for IC's standards.

[StarvinMarvin]

You're clearly missing the point, I'm not debating that they didn't belong in a regional, I was rewriting your words.  I'm merely telling you that you wrote in the last sentence of the first paragraph that Trinity was in the regional final and I was correcting you because that would be IC. "TRINITY made it to the REGIONAL FINAL so clearly they belonged." 

[pudge27]

I think that this issue is getting a bit old.  There are good points on both sides.  I hadn't realized the discrepency in number of teams in the NE Region vs. NY.  On the flip side, it seems strange to weigh the in region games so heavily and then bring in an outside team.  It's almost like the term region is a firm institution during the course of the year, but "fluid" when it needs to be at the end of the season.  It would be impossible to predict how a NE team would have done if they had played in NY all year.  There probably is and should be more quality teams in NE if they do in fact have almost double the programs.  I'll bet that there's a heck of a lot more creampuffs as well.  I'm not making any assumptions about Trinity from last year or ECONN from 2005, but it seems like it would be pretty easy to rack up a lot of in-region wins in a large region.  Assuming that there are 66+ teams in the NE Region.  Probably 10 of them are quality.  That's a lot of crappy teams to rack of wins against. 

Back to the NY region.  Cortland is looking good, RPI took 2 today, UR is struggling a bit.  What's new with the Bombers?  Are they sitting at home waiting for their Sponsor's exemption for the tournament to come in or are they playing at all lately? 

[AlleyCat]

Ithaca will probably get their sponsors exemption like every year. Instead of playing in the ECAC and have to play games that mean something in NY late in the year, they play Montclair St which for them is out of region.  It would be interesting if they went to the ECAC and had to play an elimination tourney before the NCAA's like the SUNYAC and Liberty League.  It seems those two leagues end up hurting their chances for 2 bids by having the tourney. Brockport and RPI last year lost in the league tourneys which ended up getting them bounced from the tourney.

[shoeless]

I think that this issue is getting a bit old.  There are good points on both sides.  I hadn't realized the discrepency in number of teams in the NE Region vs. NY.  On the flip side, it seems strange to weigh the in region games so heavily and then bring in an outside team.  It's almost like the term region is a firm institution during the course of the year, but "fluid" when it needs to be at the end of the season.  It would be impossible to predict how a NE team would have done if they had played in NY all year.  There probably is and should be more quality teams in NE if they do in fact have almost double the programs.  I'll bet that there's a heck of a lot more creampuffs as well.  I'm not making any assumptions about Trinity from last year or ECONN from 2005, but it seems like it would be pretty easy to rack up a lot of in-region wins in a large region.  Assuming that there are 66+ teams in the NE Region.  Probably 10 of them are quality.  That's a lot of crappy teams to rack of wins against. 

Back to the NY region.  Cortland is looking good, RPI took 2 today, UR is struggling a bit.  What's new with the Bombers?  Are they sitting at home waiting for their Sponsor's exemption for the tournament to come in or are they playing at all lately? 

[Ralph Turner]

I think that this issue is getting a bit old.  There are good points on both sides.  I hadn't realized the discrepancy in number of teams in the NE Region vs. NY.  On the flip side, it seems strange to weigh the in region games so heavily and then bring in an outside team.  It's almost like the term region is a firm institution during the course of the year, but "fluid" when it needs to be at the end of the season. ...

If you will notice the Official Website, the NCAA now titles the regional brackets by the location, and not the evaluation region which predominates.  The Selection Committee is trying its best to maintain the regional emphasis that is the core of D-III, while trying to balance equal access for every member and yet have enough at-large teams (Pool C bids) to pick up the "best-of-the-rest".

[BaseB13]

I'll say this.. based on how things are going lately, I dont know what to think.  SJFC loses two to RIT after taking two from UR.  UR loses the two to SJFC after taking 3 of 4 from RPI.  I'm not sure at this point that the LL deserves more than one team.  I also thought after the sweep of UR that SJFC had a good shot but they needed to win all four from RIT.  I don't think SJFC deserves a bid now.  I do think Brockport is making a big case for an at large bid.  Infact, if Brockport beats Cortland once tomorrow, I think they'd be most deserving of an at large bid of any team in NY.  Funny how a couple weeks ago I felt they were down a little this year.  (Altho losing to Oneonta in the opener hurts a little). 

[scuba16]

Its a game and thats why the games are played on the field, not on this forum! Anybody can be beat on any given day. Thats why I always have said that the early to mid season polls are sometimes misleading!

[pudge27]

Its a game and thats why the games are played on the field, not on this forum! Anybody can be beat on any given day. Thats why I always have said that the early to mid season polls are sometimes misleading!

You're absolutely right Scuba.  Someone once told me that in sports, it's not how you start, it's how you finish.  Can't remember who.  To BB13's point about Brockport and an at-large bid, they are closing fast, but those 2 losses to Fredonia and 1 to SUNY Utica will stick out like a big chancre to the people picking the bids. 

[BoomerIL]

BaseB13.....

Your right!  Maybe the Liberty League deserves only one representative in the New York Regional.  UR lost 4 of 5 last season to St.John Fisher, and then two in a row this year, plus the two to Clarkson and the one to Vassar.  RPI lost some games they shouldn't have either, and then your RIT vs. StJF games!!!  Could it be that these players/teams are tired, worried about their final exams coming-up, graduation, whatever?  I don't know.

And like I have said in the past, and 'scuba16' reiterated, "any team can beat any other team on any given day."  Maybe some teams just have this magical, mystical, jinx thing going for them during some of those series??  I really think at times many of these teams get overly confident and think that the easier games are a given.  You need to play each game as if it were your last.  That's just my opinion! 

[D3xprt]

the sjfc game that was 9-7 i happened to see.  Rochester lost this one simply on defense.  The 3b missed a ball that started a rally -- couldn't pick up a bunt.  Then with two outs, 2b throw to 2b wide instead of first base on a ball hit between 2b and 1b.  He may have been trying to turn two.

Blunders like that hurt.  Rochester hit the ball better than sjfc and deserved to win the game.

[BoomerIL]

D2xprt.....

As my old friend "shoeless" says, and I totally agree, defense does win games!!!  Its like that in football, baseketball, soccer, etc.  Sure, you need to score more rans than your opponent, but defense lets your pitcher know that the team is there for his efforts.  Obviously that's whats supposed to happen, the defense making the plays and giving the pitcher a good chance of winning.  We all know how the game is played, its just that sometimes the other team won't let that happen.  DAH...right!!!

All I can say is that watching these talented kids, Rochester's, RPI's, Emory's, Wash. U's and all the others I have watched the last two seasons has just made me more of a fan of the game of baseball.  I've learned about rules that I didn't know about before and seen plays that I will always remember.  I also know that with all of the talent in New York state, local grown or not, they can play with any other teams from any of the other conferences. 

Go Yellowjackets.......Go Cubs   

[BoomerIL]

WOW, I'm also losing my karma's!

[nyy2344nyy]

I think that this issue is getting a bit old.  There are good points on both sides.  I hadn't realized the discrepancy in number of teams in the NE Region vs. NY.  On the flip side, it seems strange to weigh the in region games so heavily and then bring in an outside team.  It's almost like the term region is a firm institution during the course of the year, but "fluid" when it needs to be at the end of the season. ...

If you will notice the Official Website, the NCAA now titles the regional brackets by the location, and not the evaluation region which predominates.  The Selection Committee is trying its best to maintain the regional emphasis that is the core of D-III, while trying to balance equal access for every member and yet have enough at-large teams (Pool C bids) to pick up the "best-of-the-rest".

Can anyone explain how the NCAA decides how many teams get into each regional?  What is the criteria for a region having 8 teams and not 6, or vice versa??

[scuba16]

Who's online for an at large bid if they don't win their conference tournament?
Remember, the NY region either is going to be a 6 team regional or an 8 team regional.
Past practice usually brings in an out of region team and with the pool A's (4) SUNYAC, NEAC, LL, Skyline + pool B usually IC(1), you have the NCAA either bringin in 1 out of region to make a 6 team regional or 2 to make 7 teams and another team would have to make it to get to an 8 team regional! Could be any of the following teams:


SUNYAC
Brockport                     23-17-1
Oneonta                      24-26
NEAC
Caz                              21-10
Keystone                     27-10 (I think they won the NEAC and pool A but I'm not sure)
LL
U of R                           27-11
RPI                               30-10
Skyline
St Joes LI                    26-15-1
Farmingdale                26-14
Mount Saint Vincent    23-15
E8
Ithaca                          27-11 will probably get a pool B like always
SJF                               23-13-1
RIT                               22-12