Question on NCAA rule

Jonny Utah · October 19, 2007, 01:18:58 PM

Anyone know the rule on holding hands by two players on a kickoff return team?

I mean when the ball is kicked, and then two players meet and hold hands at a certain area, and then move together for a double team block?

I know they cant clothesline someone and block together, but can they line up, form hands, run a few yards while holding hands and then let go before they block someone?

Thanks

KitchenSink · October 19, 2007, 01:33:41 PM

I'm a high school official, and any type of interlocked blocking is a foul at that level. I'd be pretty sure that NCAA is the same.

Just Bill · October 19, 2007, 01:49:49 PM

Kitchen Sink is right any interlocked block would be illegal, but two players that temporarily link are OK as long as the clearly separate before making a block.

Jonny Utah · October 19, 2007, 02:47:52 PM

Quote from: Just Bill on October 19, 2007, 01:49:49 PM
Kitchen Sink is right any interlocked block would be illegal, but two players that temporarily link are OK as long as the clearly separate before making a block.

thanks, so two players holding hands, running for 5 yards, clearly separating arms before blocking someone would be legal correct?

And federation rules would be different, although Im asking about NCAA rules, or Texas and Massachusetts high school rules, that also use NCAA....

fossywriter8 · October 19, 2007, 04:01:21 PM

Why would they hold hands?
Is one deaf or hard of hearing (don't get me started on the PC use of "hearing impaired")? I've seen offensive linemen hold hands then let go on the snap count so the deaf one knows the ball is snapped. Would holding hands on the kick return help get the deaf player focused on the right person to block?

retagent · October 19, 2007, 10:51:18 PM

"Not that there's anything wrong with that."

smedindy · October 19, 2007, 11:35:43 PM

Well, in noisy stadiums I've seen linemen hold hands so they wouldn't jump offside. So they are 'hearing impaired' in that sense. It also shows solidarity and unity.

The rule against interlocking while blocking goes back to the day when Teddy Roosevelt almost banned the sport. The 'flying wedge' - where the linemen would basically bolt themselves together with their arms and run down the field is how a lot of people got killed or maimed back in the olden days.

fossywriter8 · October 20, 2007, 10:51:56 PM

Quote from: retagent on October 19, 2007, 10:51:18 PM
"Not that there's anything wrong with that."

Yada, yada, yada

K-Mack · October 21, 2007, 12:14:26 AM

Can we please keep this thread going for other questions, now that JT and Kitchen Sink are among the posters outed as HS game officials?

There was a question on the Dose about the horse collar rule being NFL only. I assume yes, but could someone with an officials' knowledge of HS/NCAA rules speak to that?

Also, pass interference rules are way different in college than the NFL, and not just because of 15 yards vs. spot fouls. The rules are actually different, anyone who could speak to that, be my guest.

You often see/hear fans (parents) complaining about rules they don't quite understand. Or they don't understand the college rules are different from HS or NFL.

Next we should get the 'explain offensive line play' thread going. Oh the old OLs would love it and people would definitely benefit.

Bob.Gregg · October 21, 2007, 12:19:47 AM

Quote from: K-Mack on October 21, 2007, 12:14:26 AM
There was a question on the Dose about the horse collar rule being NFL only. I assume yes, but could someone with an officials' knowledge of HS/NCAA rules speak to that?

Also, pass interference rules are way different in college than the NFL, and not just because of 15 yards vs. spot fouls. The rules are actually different, anyone who could speak to that, be my guest.

Horse collar rule is NFL only. NO NCAA, NO HS.

Pass interference in the NFL includes faceguarding. The NCAA/HS rules do not. No contact, no interference.

Also, penalty assessment is obviously different. NFL is at the spot, or at the 1-yard line for P.I. in the endzone.

NCAA is 15 yards, or at the spot, whichever is less. Same for HS. P.I. in the endzone is 15 yards, or half the distance, whichever is less.

K-Mack · October 21, 2007, 12:47:32 AM

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 21, 2007, 12:19:47 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 21, 2007, 12:14:26 AM
There was a question on the Dose about the horse collar rule being NFL only. I assume yes, but could someone with an officials' knowledge of HS/NCAA rules speak to that?

Also, pass interference rules are way different in college than the NFL, and not just because of 15 yards vs. spot fouls. The rules are actually different, anyone who could speak to that, be my guest.

Horse collar rule is NFL only. NO NCAA, NO HS.

Pass interference in the NFL includes faceguarding. The NCAA/HS rules do not. No contact, no interference.

Also, penalty assessment is obviously different. NFL is at the spot, or at the 1-yard line for P.I. in the endzone.

NCAA is 15 yards, or at the spot, whichever is less. Same for HS. P.I. in the endzone is 15 yards, or half the distance, whichever is less.

Exactly.

Also, re: Pass interference rule differences in college ... no 5-yard zone for DB/WR contact. The way I was coached was that you can have contact with a receiver as long as the ball is not in the air. I don't think "contact" meant you can impede his progress in any way, but you can run with him with you hands on him or something like that.

HScoach · October 21, 2007, 09:16:14 AM

The no "5 yard contact rule" is why we teach our LB's to defeat drag routes by blowing up the WR if he crosses the middle. We might get a pass interference penalty every once in a while if the QB just happens to have the pass in the air, but most of the time it completely defeats the WR and TE drag routes for the entire night if the ILB's de-cleats them early in the game.

K-Mack · October 24, 2007, 12:32:15 PM

Awesome. Sort of the same theory as hitting the fullback/quarterback/pitch man on option plays regardless of whether or not they get the ball. You want them all wishing the other guy gets the ball.

Meanwhile, from the Dose:

QuotePurple Crush Says:
October 23rd, 2007 at 4:37 am

I officiate football in Texas. There is no horsecollar rule.

KitchenSink · October 24, 2007, 01:33:29 PM

Nope, no horsecollar rule in HS. But that doesn't stop kids or coaches asking for a flag when they get a tackle up top.

"HORSECOLLAR!! THROW THE FLAG!!"

a) shake head
b) walk away

You can try and explain that there are different rules for the various levels, if you like blank stares and "But, but ... "

K-Mack · October 24, 2007, 02:00:19 PM

Yeah, that's basically how we got started on the topic. Guy in Texas was asking for a horsecollar penalty.

I think it speaks to the obsession fans tend to have with blaming officials for whatever doesn't go right.

But hey, it's nice that the NFL has such a great influence on fans that they learn the rules in great detail, consciously or not.

We're just not always playing with the same rules.

Horse collar is one.
Pass interference/5-yard zone is another.

What are some other differences between college and either HS or NFL that people can think of?