Question on NCAA rule

[KitchenSink]

Jonny - HS (Federation) can block below the waist in the "free-blocking zone" (basically in the pits) unless it's a long / shotgun snap.  Once the ball leaves the f-b zone (by the snap energy or the QB moving it out), no more below the waist.

And a tee is allowed in HS.  I thought they eliminated it in NCAA ...

[kickerdad]

Jonny - HS (Federation) can block below the waist in the "free-blocking zone" (basically in the pits) unless it's a long / shotgun snap.  Once the ball leaves the f-b zone (by the snap energy or the QB moving it out), no more below the waist.

And a tee is allowed in HS.  I thought they eliminated it in NCAA ...

KitchenSink,

I am with you, I was under the impression that in HS you could use a tee for extra points and field goals, but in college you could not. I know my son isn't allowed to use a block.

Utah, are you sure you don't have the rules backwards.

[Jonny Utah]

Jonny - HS (Federation) can block below the waist in the "free-blocking zone" (basically in the pits) unless it's a long / shotgun snap.  Once the ball leaves the f-b zone (by the snap energy or the QB moving it out), no more below the waist.

And a tee is allowed in HS.  I thought they eliminated it in NCAA ...

KitchenSink,

I am with you, I was under the impression that in HS you could use a tee for extra points and field goals, but in college you could not. I know my son isn't allowed to use a block.

Utah, are you sure you don't have the rules backwards.

You are right, the exception to the high school rule in MA, (NCAA) is that a tee can be used.  But you can also block below the waist all over the field (Sweeps, jets, shotguns, anywhere, etc...)

And I think you can crackback more in federation than you can in NCAA too......not too sure though.

[kickerdad]

Can someone explain the "Official NCAA rule on noise makers? When I look at the rules it sounds like it was written for Championship games only. Then you see somewhere else where the rules committee recinded the rule.

My wife nearly got arrested 2 weeks ago at Averett for having a dang cowbell that was purchased in the Averett bookstore with Averett printed on it.

The problem started when the announcer told people to stop using air horns, yet some on the PA system was playing a siren. So when Averett scored it lonely touchdown she ran her cowbell and the folks on the other side that had the air horns complained. The rest of the story is nasty and she was close to getting the police called on her and thrown out because she refused to surrender her cow bell.

Went to Greensboro this past week and people ran cow bells all night and not a word was said.

So please, someone tell me what is going on. I can tell you this. We went to a VT game this year and you heard everything and the only folks that got removed were the ones that had cups with octane in them and were talking ugly and falling all over everyone. The noise makers were left alone.

I had a gentleman who appeared to be in his late 70's ask what all the fuss was about and he said "Hell, what a bunch of idiots" "Cowbells were invented for football not cows"

Somebody has to know the answer to noise rule.

[Comet 14]

In Illinois High School Football the mercy rule is 40pts in the second half running clock. Also what is the rule ( High school and college) on contact when a team is taking a knee at the end of a game? Are you able to play full speed on defense or is it a penalty if the offense tells the official they are taking a knee?

[Comet 14]

I am no official but I think the fans are allowed to have noise makers but not horns as they can be mistaken for the horn on the scoreboard.

[KitchenSink]

Official's discretion.  And, since the officials (if they are smart) find out before the play if it's a knee (and they should also inform the defense), they know just what to look for.

In Illinois High School Football the mercy rule is 40pts in the second half running clock. Also what is the rule ( High school and college) on contact when a team is taking a knee at the end of a game? Are you able to play full speed on defense or is it a penalty if the offense tells the official they are taking a knee?

[kickerdad]

Can someone explain the "Official NCAA rule on noise makers? When I look at the rules it sounds like it was written for Championship games only. Then you see somewhere else where the rules committee recinded the rule.

My wife nearly got arrested 2 weeks ago at Averett for having a dang cowbell that was purchased in the Averett bookstore with Averett printed on it.

The problem started when the announcer told people to stop using air horns, yet some on the PA system was playing a siren. So when Averett scored it lonely touchdown she ran her cowbell and the folks on the other side that had the air horns complained. The rest of the story is nasty and she was close to getting the police called on her and thrown out because she refused to surrender her cow bell.

Went to Greensboro this past week and people ran cow bells all night and not a word was said.

So please, someone tell me what is going on. I can tell you this. We went to a VT game this year and you heard everything and the only folks that got removed were the ones that had cups with octane in them and were talking ugly and falling all over everyone. The noise makers were left alone.

I had a gentleman who appeared to be in his late 70's ask what all the fuss was about and he said "Hell, what a bunch of idiots" "Cowbells were invented for football not cows"

Somebody has to know the answer to noise rule.

Also what is the rule on "Forward Progress" Is the ball marked at the exact spot where the knee touches or at the forward most progress of the nose of the football. Example....runner's knee touches the ground on the 1 yard line but he stretchs out and the nose of the football breaks the plane of the goal line. Is it a touchdown or marked at the 1 yard line. Next example.....you need to get to the 10 yard line for a first down and your knee touches down at the 10 1/2 but the runner stretches out across the 10 to the 9 & 3/4. Is it a first down.  I know this sounds like a stupid question but I have seen officals mark it both ways and with no consistency.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm not an official, but pretty sure it is whee the nose of the ball is at the moment the runner is down.  Stretching out the ball after one is down is irrelevant (though most runners do it, just in case).  But if the ball crosses the plane of the goal (or first down line), it doesn't matter where the knee (or other parts of the anatomy) later lands.

Since the official has to view both the ball and the knees simultaneously (essentially impossible to do with truly accurate position on both), it is no wonder that so many spots at least seem to the viewer as 'generous' or otherwise!

[Old Ref]

I'm not an official, but pretty sure it is whee the nose of the ball is at the moment the runner is down.  Stretching out the ball after one is down is irrelevant (though most runners do it, just in case).  But if the ball crosses the plane of the goal (or first down line), it doesn't matter where the knee (or other parts of the anatomy) later lands.

Since the official has to view both the ball and the knees simultaneously (essentially impossible to do with truly accurate position on both), it is no wonder that so many spots at least seem to the viewer as 'generous' or otherwise!

If the ball crosses the goal before the knee touches down, it is a touchdown. If the knee touches before the ball crosses, the ball is down at the spot the knee touches. Difficult call because often you do not see the knee due to obstructed view. One of the more difficult calls to make. Most officials are taught to call what you see. Hope you can understand how difficult this can be and not what you don't see. Rule also applies to first down marker. If the official rules it was simultaneous, then it is marked at the point of forward progress of the ball. I have been out of the game for a few years, so if the rulling has changed, I stand to be corrected.

[Jonny Utah]

In Illinois High School Football the mercy rule is 40pts in the second half running clock. Also what is the rule ( High school and college) on contact when a team is taking a knee at the end of a game? Are you able to play full speed on defense or is it a penalty if the offense tells the official they are taking a knee?

From what I usually see, the ref tells both teams that the offense is taking a knee.  This is an easy sportsmanship lesson where if the defense tries any crap, the refs have a quick whistle and usually (or should) throw a flag on the next play.

[altor]

This is an easy sportsmanship lesson where if the defense tries any crap, the refs have a quick whistle and usually (or should) throw a flag on the next play.

I agree they should throw a flag in this instance, but it goes both ways.  I was at a game where the offense was trying to run out the clock, but needed a few extra seconds to be sure.  The QB took the snap and waited a second or two before he took the knee.  The defensive lineman got flagged because he was trying to get through the OL and to the QB.  If they are going to throw that flag, they need to blow the play dead even if the QB doesn't take the knee immediately.  If the offense needs to run a few seconds off, they need to run a sweep.

[KentATM]

I am no official but I think the fans are allowed to have noise makers but not horns as they can be mistaken for the horn on the scoreboard.

so say we distribute a ton of cow bells and can shakers, thats cool then?  As long as there are no horns its cool?

[BOBCAT04]

[


If the ball crosses the goal before the knee touches down, it is a touchdown. If the knee touches before the ball crosses, the ball is down at the spot the knee touches. [/quote]


Forward progress would be where the ball was when the knee touches the ground, not where the knee was unless the ball was on  the same line.  The line to gain can still be made if the ball crosses the imaginary line at the 10 when the knee touches the ground at the 10 1/2. It's the position of the ball when the knee touches

[Old Ref]

[


If the ball crosses the goal before the knee touches down, it is a touchdown. If the knee touches before the ball crosses, the ball is down at the spot the knee touches.

Forward progress would be where the ball was when the knee touches the ground, not where the knee was unless the ball was on  the same line.  The line to gain can still be made if the ball crosses the imaginary line at the 10 when the knee touches the ground at the 10 1/2. It's the position of the ball when the knee touches
[/quote]

Yes, you are correct. I think we are basically saying the same thing. If the ball carrier is on his way down when the knee touches and the ball is being extended forward, the forward progress would be just as you say, but if the forward progress is stopped or he is downed and then he reaches out extending the ball, then it is marked where the forward progress ended.