BB: Pitcher of the Year Candidates

[dgilblair]

Is seem to remember a game that the pitcher left after 5 innings with the score tied 0-0 his coach took him out of the game before the first pitch of the 6th, his team scored 2 runs and won the game 2-0.  The win went to the next pitcher who pitch 1 inning.  Someone said if the coach made the pitching change in the middle of the inning the kid that went 5 innings would have gotten the win.  Is this a true story?

[Jim Dixon]

Interested in other interpretations.

I have never been a fan of the rules that allow a starting pitcher to throw less than half the innings for a win.  If your going to have three pitchers pitch 3 inning each, and you want a certain pitcher to get the win, make him the 2nd pitcher.  This assumes your fairly confident that you will win.

It seems that if arrangements were made to allow the starter to go less than the minimum, the starter should get the win.  Both games (Millsaps and Rhodes) are straight forward since before the second pitcher threw a pitch, each team was winning.  Why the third pitcher gets the win in the Millsaps game is surprising. 

[Spence]

Is seem to remember a game that the pitcher left after 5 innings with the score tied 0-0 his coach took him out of the game before the first pitch of the 6th, his team scored 2 runs and won the game 2-0.  The win went to the next pitcher who pitch 1 inning.  Someone said if the coach made the pitching change in the middle of the inning the kid that went 5 innings would have gotten the win.  Is this a true story?

Doesn't seem like it.

Lot of missing information here. Who's the home team? In which half of what inning were the runs scored?

Bottom line is until there is a NEW pitcher, the old pitcher is still in the game, even if the coach has told him and scorekeeper and whoever else that the pitcher is done for the game. So if he completes the inning and then his team scores before a new pitcher takes the mound, then the old pitcher gets the benefit of that run.

[dgilblair]

Is seem to remember a game that the pitcher left after 5 innings with the score tied 0-0 his coach took him out of the game before the first pitch of the 6th, his team scored 2 runs and won the game 2-0.  The win went to the next pitcher who pitch 1 inning.  Someone said if the coach made the pitching change in the middle of the inning the kid that went 5 innings would have gotten the win.  Is this a true story?

Doesn't seem like it.

Lot of missing information here. Who's the home team? In which half of what inning were the runs scored?

Bottom line is until there is a NEW pitcher, the old pitcher is still in the game, even if the coach has told him and scorekeeper and whoever else that the pitcher is done for the game. So if he completes the inning and then his team scores before a new pitcher takes the mound, then the old pitcher gets the benefit of that run.

The 5 inning pitcher was on the visiting team.  The coach made the change before the first pitch of the sixth.  So the starter was actually out of the game in the official score book when his team scored the winning runs.  If the coach waited until the bottom of the inning the starter would have gotten the win.   

[Spence]

Is seem to remember a game that the pitcher left after 5 innings with the score tied 0-0 his coach took him out of the game before the first pitch of the 6th, his team scored 2 runs and won the game 2-0.  The win went to the next pitcher who pitch 1 inning.  Someone said if the coach made the pitching change in the middle of the inning the kid that went 5 innings would have gotten the win.  Is this a true story?

Doesn't seem like it.

Lot of missing information here. Who's the home team? In which half of what inning were the runs scored?

Bottom line is until there is a NEW pitcher, the old pitcher is still in the game, even if the coach has told him and scorekeeper and whoever else that the pitcher is done for the game. So if he completes the inning and then his team scores before a new pitcher takes the mound, then the old pitcher gets the benefit of that run.

The 5 inning pitcher was on the visiting team.  The coach made the change before the first pitch of the sixth.  So the starter was actually out of the game in the official score book when his team scored the winning runs.  If the coach waited until the bottom of the inning the starter would have gotten the win.   

Then I don't think that's right.

Kid leaves the mound after top 5 having completed the inning, he is the pitcher of record until a pitching change is made. You don't make a pitching change on paper or in the dugout; you do it on the mound. So that would be at the top of the sixth. So if the kid's team scored in the 5th, the runs would be to his credit.

The only exception I can see that would possibly make the story you heard correct is if there was a change in the batting lineup that took the pitcher out of the game.

Failing that, starter gets the win.

[Bob Maxwell]

Here's another example of an incorrect box score... 

At first glance it looks like the win was given to the starting pitcher because of the rule that was quoted earlier by Just_some_guy... but the only piece of the rule that I can see that fits is that three pitchers were used.  The starter went 3.2 innings and left the game in the botton of the 4th inning with the score 2-2.  So he can't get the win as the game was tied when he left... it has to go to the pitcher who was in the game when the team took the lead for good in the top of the 5th.

http://www.rmc.edu/athletics/stats/baseball/08BASE/csrmc.htm

Take a look and let me know what you think...

Also, this game is reported with two different final scores... 12-2 on the winning teams web site and 7-2 on the losers web site.  The home teams web page says it was halted in the top of the 8th inning... due to darkness.  It is not a conference game so it doesn't get suspended and finished later.  In this situation it is my understanding that anything that happened in the top of the 8th is wiped out and the final score reverts back to the end of the 7th.  They did score 1 or more runs, but they were already in the lead so the suspended game rule doesn't apply.

Any thoughts on this?

As Spense said... there are a lot of errors that go undetected in box scores.

[Bob Maxwell]

Put something up on this site that you think is incorrect and you keep learning about the game... thanks to Fran Elia for these posts from the SUNYAC page;

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     Re: BB: SUNYAC
« Reply #724 on: Today at 02:28:35 pm »   

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NCAA scoring rules actually state that stats from an incomplete inning actually do count if the outcome of the game is not affected. For example, if a team trails 2-1 entering the top of the eighth and scores twice to take a 3-2 lead, but the game is called (darkness, rain, etc.), then the game reverts back to the last completed inning and all stats from that top of the eighth don't count. Stats do count, however, as long as the winning/losing team isn't affected.

Therefore, since Cortland led 7-2 entering the top of the eighth, the five runs they scored (and all of the individual stats from the inning) will count, since Cortland is the winner regardless. The final score should be 12-2.

Randolph-Macon posted yesterday's score without knowledge of this rule (to their defense, it's not an overly well-known rule), but they have been informed and the score should most likely be changed to 12-2.

Fran Elia
Cortland SID

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franelia
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     Re: BB: SUNYAC
« Reply #725 on: Today at 02:35:50 pm »   

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As a follow-up to my last post, this is from the NCAA Baseball Rule Book in the "Scoring" section (the boldface is mine):

Called/Forfeited Game and No Contest
SECTION 28. a. If a regulation game is called, include the record of all individual and team actions up to the moment the game ends as specified in Rule 5-8-b.

A.R. 1—If the scoring during an incomplete inning has no bearing on the outcome of the contest, include all individual and team records.

Guess I should have posted it in the scoring questions section... but thanks to Fran for the clarification.

[Spence]

Put something up on this site that you think is incorrect and you keep learning about the game... thanks to Fran Elia for these posts from the SUNYAC page;

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     Re: BB: SUNYAC
« Reply #724 on: Today at 02:28:35 pm »   

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NCAA scoring rules actually state that stats from an incomplete inning actually do count if the outcome of the game is not affected. For example, if a team trails 2-1 entering the top of the eighth and scores twice to take a 3-2 lead, but the game is called (darkness, rain, etc.), then the game reverts back to the last completed inning and all stats from that top of the eighth don't count. Stats do count, however, as long as the winning/losing team isn't affected.

Therefore, since Cortland led 7-2 entering the top of the eighth, the five runs they scored (and all of the individual stats from the inning) will count, since Cortland is the winner regardless. The final score should be 12-2.

Randolph-Macon posted yesterday's score without knowledge of this rule (to their defense, it's not an overly well-known rule), but they have been informed and the score should most likely be changed to 12-2.

Fran Elia
Cortland SID

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franelia
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     Re: BB: SUNYAC
« Reply #725 on: Today at 02:35:50 pm »   

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As a follow-up to my last post, this is from the NCAA Baseball Rule Book in the "Scoring" section (the boldface is mine):

Called/Forfeited Game and No Contest
SECTION 28. a. If a regulation game is called, include the record of all individual and team actions up to the moment the game ends as specified in Rule 5-8-b.

A.R. 1—If the scoring during an incomplete inning has no bearing on the outcome of the contest, include all individual and team records.

Guess I should have posted it in the scoring questions section... but thanks to Fran for the clarification.

News to me...thanks for the post and thanks to Fran for the explanation. One of the best in D-III right there.

[NYBB]

Pete McEaneny from Rochester.  Watch out.

[Bob Maxwell]

The name is:

McEneaney...  not McEaneny.

[NYBB]

whatever i played with him in HS and sandlot and he's going to dominate this year.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Not sure where to post this, but thought I'd resurrect this thread before it moves to page 2!

In basketball, a key stat (esp. for point guards) is assist:turnover ratio.  Does anyone keep that sort of stat for pitchers in terms of strikeouts:walks ratio?  Matt Aronson (IWU), in addition to a 4-0 record, 1.27 era, and well-under .200 OBA, has 33 Ks and ONE walk!  Anyone know if there is a record kept of this, and, if so, what it may be?

His teammate, Brent Kuvalic, is not a candidate for Pitcher of the Year (having pitched only 15 innings), but you might want to keep him on your radar.  He is 2-0, with a 0.00 era, and OBA of .065 (he's given up 3 hits all season, two singles, 1 double).  Even more amazing (in the stat I'm mainly posting about now) he has 19 Ks, ZERO walks.

So, does a record exist for K:BB ratio?

[TexasBB]

A stat that I think is better than ERA or BA against is PE (Pitching Efficiency). It is measured by total baserunners allowed per inning work (excluding errors) so it is the sum of hits, walks and HBP allowed per inning.

Blake Brooher of UTT is an example of a picher with a PE below one.

He has allowed 37 hits, 20 walks, 3 HBP in 62.7 innings of work for a PE of .9574 or less than 1 baserunner per inning worked.

He is 8-0 so far this year with a 1.15 ERA and .165 BA against.

Pitchers with PE below 1.5 would be very good anything below 1 is simply outstanding over the course of a season.


A couple other pitchers in the ASC that are having very good years:

Ozarks Curt Dixon who has a 6-1 record with a 2.59 ERA has pitched 48.2 innings allowed 40 hits, 18 walks and 7 HBP for a PE of 1.34

Brett Holland of UTT who has a record of 8-0 with and ERA of 2.48 in 61.2 innigs has allowed 51 hits 11 walks and 8 HBP for a PE of 1.14

Bruce Cameron of Ozarks who has a record of 5-0 whith an ERA of 1.82 has allowed 36 hits 7 walks and 3 HBP in 39.2 innings for a PE of 1.16

[Mr. Ypsi]

Aronson's PE comes to 0.686 (23 hits, 1 walk, 0 HBP in 35 innings).

Update on Brent Kulavic: he had a complete game (8 innings) shutout yesterday, but he DID issue a walk (to go with 7 more Ks).  He now has 23 ip, 0.00 era, 26 Ks, 1 walk, .107 OBA - and a PE of 0.435 (8 hits, 1 walk, 1 HBP in 23 innings).

[TexasBB]

Those are outstanding stats the key is can they keep it up as they rack up more innings. If they can then they have to be strongly considered for Pitcher of the Year or at least All American. 

Stats are relative as well since you can rack up great stats against midling competition. I wouldn't begin to guess how you can be factored in other than trying to gauge strength of schedule which is tough in DIII baseball.