2007 Playoff Field

[Ralph Turner]

Yeah, no way that Curry, winner of (according to Kickoff) THE WORST conference in d3, deserved to get a bid.

Oh, wait ... they won big today.  Nevermind.

Let's see what happens when they play someone a little better than a #7 seed.  That's the beauty of the playoffs.

I'm a CCIW (IWU) fan; I was just taking exception to Spence trashing the whole concept of AQs.  I'm certainly not saying Curry is a threat to MUC (or even necessarily one of the top 32 teams in the country), but a conference champ deserves a shot, and they took advantage of theirs, even if their conference is as bad as it gets.  They may not (OK, will not) make it to Salem, but the NEFC is no longer 0 for forever.

I agree about the conference champs, in any conference.

The MIAA is weak in football, but they deserve their Pool A bid.

No one doubts the quality of MIAA hoops, both men and women.

D3 is about access.  D-1 is "semi-pro"!

[Findtheball]

   I really love this chatter in here , everybody is diss in Curry . Then in the next sentence they want to know about them . Curry is a complete team this year making the NEFC proud !!! GO CURRY !!!

[Spence]

Yeah, no way that Curry, winner of (according to Kickoff) THE WORST conference in d3, deserved to get a bid.

Oh, wait ... they won big today.  Nevermind.

Let's see what happens when they play someone a little better than a #7 seed.  That's the beauty of the playoffs.

I'm a CCIW (IWU) fan; I was just taking exception to Spence trashing the whole concept of AQs.  I'm certainly not saying Curry is a threat to MUC (or even necessarily one of the top 32 teams in the country), but a conference champ deserves a shot, and they took advantage of theirs, even if their conference is as bad as it gets.  They may not (OK, will not) make it to Salem, but the NEFC is no longer 0 for forever.

And I'm taking exception to the idea that if you lose to Capital and Mount Union you had no chance of going to the playoffs from day 1. Ridiculous. Then they feed Capital to UWW rather than giving them a reasonable draw, and make Case look legitimate by giving them a cake draw. It's like they wanted to make sure they didn't look ridiculous.

Shrug all it does is thin the herd and make it easier for the true powers to go deep into the playoffs. It's worse in football than in a sport like baseball because the better team wins more often in football than most sports.

I'll put 10000 dollars on Curry not making the Stagg Bowl. Who wants to go against me? Heck I'd put 100 bucks on them not winning their next game.

Love all the consternation about putting Eau Claire in and then they go and beat St. Norbert. Little different when you've actually been tested on a weekly basis. They've got a shot to win that bracket. 6 of the 8 names in the quarters will be very familiar names. The other two will be new only because there were no very familiar names in their quarter of the draw.

Auto bids lead to less competitive tournaments.

[smedindy]

If you are going to hold a tournament in any sport, and you have conferences, you MUST have auto bids. Auto bids make it so everyone in a conference has a fair and just chance to make the post season, which is a reward for a hard fought season.

Without an auto bid, NC Wesleyan wouldn't have been in the tourney, nor Curry, and they won. Without auto bids, one wonders if we would have had the great Case / Widener finish, or the Franklin / North Central game. The UWEC / St. Norbert game was a close game. Without auto bids, I doubt if that would have happened.

The beauty of the NCAA D-1 basketball tourney is that a team from the SWAC or MEAC could pull an upset and beat a team from a power conference, or a team from the Colonial could make the Final 4. There's no chance of that without auto bids, and without that you lose mystery, drama, intrigue.

Jonny Utah - Capital wasn't within 3 TDs of MUC on that day. They play another week, it may be closer.

[smedindy]

The MIAA is weak in football, but they deserve their Pool A bid.

And the tide turns in any sport, as it wasn't THAT long ago Albion was a national power and the winner of the Walnut and Bronze.

[repete]

I don't know Smed, that was back in the day when bounce passes were legal (at least in the semis)  and I had hair.

[firstdown]

The AQ's are absolutely necessary to keep participation in the tournament fair.  In 1982, and despite having been to the Stagg Bowl in 1977, an undefeated Wabash team was denied admission to the tournament by a vengeful opposing coach saying "they didn't beat someone bad enough."  In the old selection system, it was purely subjective and based soleyl on who was friends with whom.  The old system was absoultely corrupt and unfair.  Whereas with AQ's you can win and you are in.  If a conference is weak one year, well so be it.  This is the price for a fair and transparent system.  Never go back to the old system which was absolutely horrible and totally unfair.  The true competition is on the field not in the smoke filled rooms.

[Spence]

The AQ's are absolutely necessary to keep participation in the tournament fair.  In 1982, and despite having been to the Stagg Bowl in 1977, an undefeated Wabash team was denied admission to the tournament by a vengeful opposing coach saying "they didn't beat someone bad enough."  In the old selection system, it was purely subjective and based soleyl on who was friends with whom.  The old system was absoultely corrupt and unfair.  Whereas with AQ's you can win and you are in.  If a conference is weak one year, well so be it.  This is the price for a fair and transparent system.  Never go back to the old system which was absolutely horrible and totally unfair.  The true competition is on the field not in the smoke filled rooms.

IMO, not an issue anymore. The tournament field is much larger now than it was then. Your definition of fairness is interesting. I don't find it very fair that a superior team is left at home in favor of an inferior one because they happen to be the best of a bad lot. But by the liberal definition of fairness, your take fits perfectly. Punish people who compete at a higher level so as to make other people feel better about themselves.

[firstdown]

Spencer

Having stood out in the cold for 25 years (from 1977 to 2002) and never been invited to the party, I can tell you something about fairness.  No questions that the current system leaves out some good teams - ask the folks from Whitworth.   I would hate to see the system return to the dark old days.  Whether the current system is the best, I can't tell you.  But the old system wasn't work a darn.  Thank heavens for the AQ's.  There is nothing like the certainty of win and you're in. 

[smedindy]

IMO, not an issue anymore. The tournament field is much larger now than it was then. Your definition of fairness is interesting. I don't find it very fair that a superior team is left at home in favor of an inferior one because they happen to be the best of a bad lot. But by the liberal definition of fairness, your take fits perfectly. Punish people who compete at a higher level so as to make other people feel better about themselves.

Yes, the tournament field is much larger but everyone should have a chance to have a bite at the apple. Why should a bleah 6-4 team from the WIAC or OAC go over a team that won its conference? Winning a conference title is hard work no matter what conference you are in.

[smedindy]

For spit and giggles, I looked at the Top 32 non-NESCAC teams using the Massey MOV rating.

The playoff teams in the top 32 were:

Mt. Union
UW - Whitewater
St. John's
Mary Hardin-Baylor
Central
Bethel
Muhlenberg
St. John Fisher
Wesley
Wisc - Eau Claire
Salisbury
Ithaca
Capital
North Central
Redlands
NC Wesleyan
Washington & Jefferson
Wabash
New Jersey
Franklin


Non Playoff Top 32 Teams
St. Olaf
Wartburg
Concordia - Moorhead
Linfield
Wisc - Oshkosh
Whitworth
Pacific Lutheran
Coe
Wisc - LaCrosse
Dubuque
Montclair State
Millsaps
Dickinson

Other playoff team rankings:

Case (34)
Hobart (36)
Trinity, TX (38)
Widener (39)
Hampden - Sydney (42)
Mt. St. Joseph (54)
Curry (59)
St. Norbert (63)
RPI (65)
Hartwick (81)
Olivet (101)
Concordia (WI) (145)

Sure there were a few questionable calls in Pool C, but how much better would the tourney really be if Olivet and Concordia were replaced by St. Olaf and Wartburg? Because of the inherent regionality of the playoffs, I don't think the results would have varied much. There were some great games this weekend and some of the bottom feeders played better than expected.

Besides, St. Olaf and Wartburg had their chances to make the field, and didn't.

[DutchFan2004]

One thing about the football playoffs,  The playoffs start in Week #1 for football.  This is not just about the best 32 football teams.  Teams work every week for their spot in the field of 32.  Yes there are teams that can beat the teams that are in the 32 and were left out.  Whitworth I am sure was better than some of the loser's last Saturday but they had their chance with Redlands.  Is this a completely fair way to do it no cause if it was then all the d3 teams would be in and we would be playing football till the ground freezes and then some.  Every team that has an AQ has the opportunity to get into the dance.  Then the teams in conferences without AQ's also have a chance then they even have a pool C chance.  There are also the Pool C's while we can argue about who is in who is out all those Pool B & C teams had their chance if they would have won all of their games they would be there.  If you didn't make it in it was no one's fault but their own.  I didn't see any 8-0, 9-0, or 10-0 teams left out.  Win and you're in is the bottom line.

[Findtheball]

 Well said Dutch

[PA_wesleyfan]

Dutch

I agree. With the Independents having to play whoever they can to fill out a schedule they don't have the mulligan on a non conference loss like an AQ team does. I to think Whitworth deserved a bid.. But I am also a huge Syracuse Basketball fan an know full well that deserving teams get hosed year after year by the human element involved in the team choices

[old ends]

Every time there is a playoff issue of the who dids and the who did nots, remember that of 283 Div III football teams only 22 get AQ. That leaves 261 teams trying to get in or 3.83% for 10 remaining spots. Sure the sub 500 % could cut the 261 in half to 131 teams or 7.63%.

So when the selection group sits down and runs the field and the D3 guys only miss 1 team from that selection. I think the Selection people did a bang up job. Some hearts were broken but they will mend.

Just and old mans thoughts.