MBB: Centennial Conference

[crambam]

Pat--I'm just saying that if you need an objective way to determine which team should host, yes, attendance is a better one than random odd/even years.

I do believe that the NCAA should make arrangements in the schedule to accommodate both teams.  But in lieu of doing the really right thing, then why NOT use attendance?  The men generate more interest, and more money.  If they don't care about money, why charge for a ticket?

This shouldn't even be a choice.  If both teams earn it, both teams should get it.  I know from F&M, the women and men play back to back all the time.  No reason that can't be done in the tourneys.

[Warren Thompson]

7express:
Enjoy the trip to Amish Country where Final Four, Elite Eight and Sweet Sixteen are in the common vocabulary...

Indeed. That's how Amish farmers commonly refer to their prize mules. 

[sunny]

Pat--I'm just saying that if you need an objective way to determine which team should host, yes, attendance is a better one than random odd/even years.

I do believe that the NCAA should make arrangements in the schedule to accommodate both teams.  But in lieu of doing the really right thing, then why NOT use attendance?  The men generate more interest, and more money.  If they don't care about money, why charge for a ticket?

This shouldn't even be a choice.  If both teams earn it, both teams should get it.  I know from F&M, the women and men play back to back all the time.  No reason that can't be done in the tourneys.

Setting aside equality, you're being far too simplistic with the financials. This isn't the NBA or Division I where you are talking about large numbers of dollars being brought in at the gate. How much "money" do you think is being brought in? The NCAA pays for travel and collects the gate receipts. They could care less about which team hosts.

Besides, you're only looking at one portion of the equation.  Amherst's men averaged about 600 fans to about 300 for their women.  So, yeah, if you base it on average attendance (of course NCAA Tournament games - men's or women's - outdo the average), that's a -300 loss at Amherst.  However, that women's sectional has to go SOMEWHERE. What if it goes to a school who averaged 100 fans? And then what if the men's school who would host in place of Amherst averages 1,000 fans?  Well look at that ... Amherst men + Women's Team X = 700 average fans, while Amherst women + Men's Team Y = 1,300.  That's what you're missing.  If Amherst isn't allowed to host both, it's not as if that men's sectional suddenly disappears. Same thing for the women.  They have to be played somewhere and you can't simply assume which scenario would lead to the greatest amount of total attendance between the two sectionals.

But, again, this is not a net overall money maker regardless.  Were it not for the trickle-down effect of the Division I Men's Basketball Tournament TV contract, Division III schools would be paying their own way. And if the NCAA cared about every nickel and every dime, the tournament match-ups and hosts would be dictated far more by geography than they already are.  Careful what you wish for ...

[Pat Coleman]

Pat--I'm just saying that if you need an objective way to determine which team should host, yes, attendance is a better one than random odd/even years.

I do believe that the NCAA should make arrangements in the schedule to accommodate both teams.  But in lieu of doing the really right thing, then why NOT use attendance?  The men generate more interest, and more money.  If they don't care about money, why charge for a ticket?

Your solution would probably generate a lawsuit. Just so you know.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Also, having seen Amherst a lot in recent years including in person twice this year... they would go toe-to-toe or destroy a lot of the teams you suggest they couldn't compete with. That women's team is damn good... and to win a national championship in Division III you have to be... because there are some incredibly good teams in women's basketball in our division.

And odd/even year distribution isn't random... it's set. In odd numbered years the women have first right to host in the first weekend; men have first right to host in the second weekend. In even numbered years the men have first right to host in the first weekend; women have first right to host in the second weekend.

It may not be "fair" in your eyes... but this completely fair in making sure we don't get into a game of picking and choosing hosts each year where one or both programs could be screwed.

Personally, you seem to have something against women's basketball... but those players are working just as hard, playing just as hard, and studying just as hard as the men's teams and I would dare say the men's teams probably have just as much as respect for them.

[Reserved Seat]

Enough with Amherst.  Never look ahead.
York!
Western Connecticut!
Christopher Newport!

[crambam]

Pat--I know it would generate a lawsuit, but that's more of a problem with society as a whole, rather than the reality and fairness.

Women's sports are not equal.  Never have been, never will be.

No matter how good these women are, I highly doubt they could go toe to toe with a decent high school boys team.  That would be like putting the top female tennis player in the world in the men's division.  She couldn't beat the 100th ranked guy.   

I'm NOT saying the women don't deserve it.  I'm saying the men shouldn't have to be moved due to some random politically correct solution that perpetuates a fiction.

And no, I have nothing against women's basketball.  I believe you when they say they work just as hard.  But in the grand scheme of things, it's just not as important. 

The real solution is scheduling the game times so that both teams can host.

I'm not also not arguing that attendance alone should be the sole factor.  Attendance should be a tie breaker when dealing with men v. women if only one can host. 

Seeding is earned.  So the team averaging 1000 for men's game shouldn't trump the Amherst men who earned it on the court.  The issue would be Amherst v. Amherst. 

It will be very interesting to see this played out. 

[diehardfan]

So this current conversation is funny...

I am tentitively planning to head up to F&M to watch the games this Saturday. Will I have any problems getting in?? I've been there for a game before so I know it's not exactly the largest place in the world.

[Reserved Seat]

funny's not the word-ridiculous
I've been to all 27 F&M games, and Mayser was about the biggest gym I was in.  Last week there were over 1800 fans and still plenty of room.  All the bleachers weren't even down--not that you want them all down.

[diehardfan]

Maybe I'm just misremembering? I feel like the student section was kind of set back or something and maybe it's throwing off my recollections? Or maybe the bleachers just weren't all out. It WAS something like 2004-2005 since that's the last time I lived on the East Coast.

Anyway, the last time I went was a regular season game, and it was fairly full, so I thought I should check that it wouldn't be impossible to get in if I am going to drive three hours to watch a game live instead of watching my own team play in their own playoff game via video feed.

By funny I actually meant mysogynistic.

[Reserved Seat]

F&M draws well.  F&M will have a large number of fans as will York. Hard to predict Western Connecticut and Christopher Newport since their fans have a ways to travel. I've followed F&M since 1966 and only had trouble getting into a game twice(once for a play-off game against John Hopkins; the other an NCAA game against Jersey City).
Parking is a hassle.

[Reserved Seat]

Sounds like Western Connecticut is trying to organize a student bus.

[njf1003]

Maybe I'm just misremembering? I feel like the student section was kind of set back or something and maybe it's throwing off my recollections? Or maybe the bleachers just weren't all out. It WAS something like 2004-2005 since that's the last time I lived on the East Coast.

Anyway, the last time I went was a regular season game, and it was fairly full, so I thought I should check that it wouldn't be impossible to get in if I am going to drive three hours to watch a game live instead of watching my own team play in their own playoff game via video feed.

By funny I actually meant mysogynistic.

The student section is kind of set back in a way. It has three walls around it on the far end of the gym. I don't think Mayser will sell out. The largest draw will probably be the York v. F&M game since York is so close. I doubt W Conn or CNU will bring that many fans (both averaged >1000 at their normal home events) and Mayser is stated at 3000, but I'm not sure I would want to be in there with 3000 of my closest friends.

[7express]

Sounds like Western Connecticut is trying to organize a student bus.

Still nothing of it on my student e-mail.  Would be nice if there was one but I'm not holding by breath.

[njf1003]

Interesting fact from F&M pod, all four teams have their conference POTY.
From the F&M game notes:
POTY Bracket: All four teams participating in this weekends' games bring their respective conference's player of the year with them. Paul Kouvaris won the CAC honor for York, Christopher Newport's Conley Taylor earned USA South POTY, DaQuan Brooks earned the honor for Western Connecticut in the Little East and Georgio Millian was the Centennial Conference Player of the Year for F&M.

Should be a good weekend of Basketball at Mayser!

I guess if we are still picking...
F&M over York

and just for fun
W Conn over CNU (in a close one)