MBB: Centennial Conference

HoopGuru · December 19, 2013, 08:44:03 PM

pretty upset on how things continue to go in collegeville for ursinus. Doesnt seem to be much confidence in a lot of the players and something you dont see very much at ursinus but most nights it seems like the opposition has better players. Not a good time to be taking a long trip up to NY to play a decent Colgate team. Hopefully, with coach mcgarvey being former Ursinus player/assistant, they will call off the dogs early and not let it get too out of hand. hopefully the return of krasna will bring some excitement to the squad and they can still make a run at slipping into that last spot for the playoffs. still a lot of time left and want to be playing the best ball at the end of the season

centfan · December 22, 2013, 02:55:17 PM

just watched ursinus/colgate; seemed clear they'd get beat bad and colgate were classy as they probably could have won by 40 if they chose. 2 mcgarvey's on the sideline.
ursinus is better with krasna but the team seems to play without much energy. teams who don't have a few very strong players must play together and play spirited, aggressive, sound basketball. we'll see what happens with them. doesn't look promising for a playoff spot for the bears. bears fans...what do you think is the problem?

Gabriel · December 23, 2013, 08:48:41 AM

Ryan Adams (18 points and 11 boards) and Jesse Krasna (14 points) both played well. Both are seniors and Adams is playing out of position at the 5 because they have no one else.

One of the biggest problems is numbers or lack thereof. They started the season with 14 players and Sunday they dressed only 10. The biggest loss was Jermaine Kamara----- before the season started. Without him they have no size as Marciano seems to be MIA for whatever reason. Also missing on Sunday were Trey Harry (concussion) and Hanif Sutton (unknown).

Of the 10 who dressed, 3 seniors, no juniors, 3 sophomores and 4 freshmen. There are no game changers among the seniors and juniors. Krasna is clearly their best player but not dominant. I think the sophomores have been disappointing---Draper, Norton & Wonderling. They have been very inconsistent. The freshmen are just learning---all have promise but none quite ready yet.

The will not make much noise until they get a big man who can play and that will not be until next year at the earliest---and then Krasna and Adams are gone.

centfan · December 23, 2013, 04:21:22 PM

thanks gabriel. i appreciate your assessment. have a great holiday and hopefully your team will gel a bit and grab some w's!

HoopGuru · December 26, 2013, 01:56:48 PM

Gabriel, i hear your assessment about the depth at ursinus and cant seem to notice how you constantly bring Kamara into the discussion. It seems, at least from what I have read on here and notice, that it was a longshot to rely on him coming into this season anyway after his past. Not sure who to point the finger to, but seems like he had several chances and for the coaches to rely on him coming into the season, and then not recruit the position, seems like that is more to blame. They (coaches) were relying on Marciano and Kamara coming into the season to be the forwards? Seems like trying to rely on 2 kids who havent really done much to deserve that kind of trust. And to think that Kamara would be able to fix this team is a stretch to say the least. Have to be prepared for this type of thing, especially at the D3 level when you can bring in many guys. To have just 10 guys dressed for a game doesnt make sense. Bring in the bodies and dont rely or trust the players that dont deserve to be trusted. Seems like they werent ready for the post-Ward era inside and, looking at the team, are years away unless they make a splash this off-season w/ a college-ready player

Gabriel · December 26, 2013, 09:44:13 PM

HoopGuru,

Don't disagree with what you said at all. However, getting forwards is probably the most difficult recruiting challenge these days. Most kids with size and ability are focused on D1 until late in the game. Last year, two top forward recruits opted late in the recruiting cycle for university academics vice basketball. Both chose engineering and are not playing basketball. Can't criticize their decision but that's what makes coaches gray prematurely.

I focused on Kamara because, #1 I like the young man and I really wanted him so succeed for his sake as well as for Ursinus. He was the only inside presence Ursinus had on the horizon. That was not through lack of effort----just the way the ball bounces. Kamara had the size and toughness the Bears needed. As a freshman, he defended both Hayk and Wixted very well. I think he would have been an 10 point, 10 rebound a game player as well as a defensive presence.

It's easy to sit back and criticize after the fact, but no one works harder at recruiting than the Ursinus coaches. Indeed, most coaches do work hard at it----and it's not easy recruiting 18 and 19 year old kids and their parents. It's not an exact science. Everyone wants the kid who could be playing D1 but opts for D3 like Shattuck or McGarvey or Milligan. It's not like Ursinus has the appeal of Duke or Kentucky where you can turn kids away. However, once in awhile you hit the jackpot. Go Bears!

Reserved Seat · December 26, 2013, 10:28:58 PM

I agree with Gabriel. It's extremely difficult to recruit at a D3 level especially if the school stresses academics and is pricey. F&M has two assistant coaches who spend hours recruiting, and they find it hard finding players willing to commit to a rigorous academic program and pay $50,000. Numerous recruited forwards are players who need to improve their skills to help the team. F&M has several forwards who fit that profile. Moune has proven to be a quick study and has become a key player since Early's untimely injury. Toskivic and Levy have the potential to develop into the future forwards the team needs.

HoopGuru · December 26, 2013, 10:43:34 PM

I understand the difficulties of recruiting, especially at the D3 level, but my point is more towards the fact that given how hard it is to recruit the forward position at this level, I am not sure why you would not be involved with more players rather than being so selective knowing that those kids could do the D1 route or focus on academics. Look at some of the other schools in the conference and their rosters of guys who are 6-7 or taller; dickinson 5, hopkins 5, burg 4. These schools also typically have larger rosters compared to UC. I would not single out the UC coaches as none working harder, as at the D3 level, all of the coaching staffs for the schools are out pretty much non-stop for a majority of the year and at least from looking at recruiting classes, UC has been consistently down compared to other schools in the conference. Finally, it is extremely hard for a player to avg a dbl dbl, especially in the centennial; only been done a few times before. Just averaging 10 reb. a game is hard to do and hasn't been done that often before.

centfan · December 26, 2013, 11:40:21 PM

i would point to seretti as an example of someone who came into a program that certainly was not dominant and turned it around extremely quickly by setting a serious tone for the program, beginning to win and doing superior recruiting. the new swat coach also is doing a good job to improve that program by teaching and setting a more serious tone than they have had. despite it being unpredictable, certain coaches recruit better than others and put more into it. the kids deserve good coaching, good recruiting, and a better chance to win. nescac does it very well, why not the centennial?

Swat Fan #1 · December 27, 2013, 08:16:04 AM

I must wade into this discussion as I feel you guys are way off the mark regarding Centennial Conference recruiting. I live in the Southern Tier portion of New York State and dealt with recruiting from many conferences. We did the AAU circuit, the Empire State games (New York's Olympics), and many college recruitment camps and shootouts. Not ONCE did we ever see or talk to any Centennial Conference coach. Not one. At the Gym Rat Tournament in Albany, there were over 300 coaches present. We got calls from over 100 D III colleges and many D II colleges including some who drove over ten hours to recruit and talk to my son. Again, not one CC coach called or showed any interest. It was not until very late in the whole process that a call came from Swarthmore's coach. I only knew Swarthmore had incredible academics and knew nothing about their basketball program. By this time my son had narrowed down his choices to Hamilton, Skidmore, and Hobart. We saw Hobart's coach at least 30 times that year. We took what we felt was a last minute trip to Swathmore and he fell in love with the school. My point is, the CC never showed any interest in him or any of the other guys he played with on his AAU team (which included five D III players and one D I player). When some are saying that the CC has coaches who recruit better or harder than other coaches, I feel that is very wrong and not close to the truth. My son's AAU coach told us many times the CC is the only conference on the East Coast he had not dealt with. The first thing the F&M coach said to my son after the first game he played was, "How did I miss you when I was recruiting?" Because they are great colleges, I feel like many CC coaches feel the school's reputation recruits the players. Our AAU schedule included many tournaments in New York, Pennsylvania, Washington DC, and Maryland, yet we never met one CC coach. Just a comment about CC recruiting that many of you may have never thought about. This in no way is meant as a negative post. I just wanted you guys to know that the CC does not recruit as much as you think they do.

Gabriel · December 27, 2013, 08:26:23 AM

HoopGuru

You said "UC has been consistently down compared to other schools in the conference..." Ah, such a short memory. Who won the conference in 2003, 2005, 2006 and 2008? Yes, the past four years have not been up to those standards, but, to say they have had no recent success is unfair.

Centfan,

Regarding recruiting, you say "NESCAC does it very well why on Centennial". Other than Amherst, Williams and Middlebury, which of the other 8 teams in the NESCAC have made much noise in basketball recently? Also, there is a difference in that some schools have a national recruiting base such as Williams, Amherst and, indeed, Swarthmore, JHU and Haverford. Ursinus and some others-----not so much.

CCHoopster · December 27, 2013, 09:44:15 AM

Quote from: Swat Dad on December 27, 2013, 08:16:04 AM
I must wade into this discussion as I feel you guys are way off the mark regarding Centennial Conference recruiting. I live in the Southern Tier portion of New York State and dealt with recruiting from many conferences. We did the AAU circuit, the Empire State games (New York's Olympics), and many college recruitment camps and shootouts. Not ONCE did we ever see or talk to any Centennial Conference coach. Not one. At the Gym Rat Tournament in Albany, there were over 300 coaches present. We got calls from over 100 D III colleges and many D II colleges including some who drove over ten hours to recruit and talk to my son. Again, not one CC coach called or showed any interest. It was not until very late in the whole process that a call came from Swarthmore's coach. I only knew Swarthmore had incredible academics and knew nothing about their basketball program. By this time my son had narrowed down his choices to Hamilton, Skidmore, and Hobart. We saw Hobart's coach at least 30 times that year. We took what we felt was a last minute trip to Swathmore and he fell in love with the school. My point is, the CC never showed any interest in him or any of the other guys he played with on his AAU team (which included five D III players and one D I player). When some are saying that the CC has coaches who recruit better or harder than other coaches, I feel that is very wrong and not close to the truth. My son's AAU coach told us many times the CC is the only conference on the East Coast he had not dealt with. The first thing the F&M coach said to my son after the first game he played was, "How did I miss you when I was recruiting?" Because they are great colleges, I feel like many CC coaches feel the school's reputation recruits the players. Our AAU schedule included many tournaments in New York, Pennsylvania, Washington DC, and Maryland, yet we never met one CC coach. Just a comment about CC recruiting that many of you may have never thought about. This in no way is meant as a negative post. I just wanted you guys to know that the CC does not recruit as much as you think they do.

It's pretty impossible for anyone on here to have ANY clue as to how hard a certain coaching staff works. I would say look at records, all conference selections and 1000 pt scorers and that will tell you who can recruit. So for now I will say Seretti has done a great job with Honig and Wixted both reaching 1000 pts and being named All Conf, All Region and All District. Just because they didn't contact your son or coach does not really indicate anything. Plenty of players go under the radar. Saying they don't recruit as much as people think they do is a hard statement for you to try and make on the basis they didn't contact your son or his coach.

Dickinson has 5 players from NY, 1 from MASS and one from Conn. That's a 1/3 of their roster from your general region.

Swat Fan #1 · December 27, 2013, 11:17:22 AM

Very true. I was just making the point that I never met a CC coach in any of my endeavors from AAU (I helped coach), I coached at the high school level for twenty years and had numerous college players, or any other thing we did camps et al. I think many CC colleges rely on their incredible academic reputations to help recruit. I wasn't starting an argument, I was just saying the CC does not recruit around here much.

Gabriel · December 27, 2013, 11:17:42 AM

Swat Dad,

The fact that the New York City/New Jersey, Philadelphia, Baltimore & D.C. areas are such fruitful areas for recruiting might be the reason the CC is not present in upstate New York. The other factor is the distance from the southeastern PA to upstate New York essentially demands an over night stay for recruiters. All of these small schools have limited budgets---some more than others. Also, the coaches have time constraints given their other responsibilities, both family and professional. Many, many head coaches pay some or all recruiting costs out of their own pockets and we know how much it costs for gas, toll, meal and lodging. Essentially, it's Economics 101. Good to hear from you again. I enjoy your thoughtful posts.

HoopGuru · December 27, 2013, 04:39:19 PM

Gabriel, my apologies on the wording as I meant over the past 5 years UC has been consistently down when it comes to recruiting classes. I would probably say since Coach Rule was there they have been down when it comes to recruiting. Not sure if I ever remember them having issues with players coming to school and either leaving or being removed from the team, and over the past handful of years they have had quite a bit of turnover with players, which, again, comes back to the recruiting over those last several years. When was the last solid class (from a bball talent standpoint, not in anyway academically/socially)? Noonan? Cousart? If I remember correctly, werent those guys being recruited when Coach R. was there?

Overall I'm sure recruiting at the DIII level is a nightmare for all coaching staffs as there are thousands upon thousands of high school players who want to play college basketball and tons of players who slip through the cracks. Just seems like you need to be involved with so many different players at the DIII level b/c kids are going to change minds late.