MBB: Centennial Conference

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

Three topics i'd like to address:

First, i was the individual singled out by the Merchant Marine AD, and thankfully several F&M fans came to my defense.  The last thing I would want to do is embarrass the school or the Conference, and i consider myself a pretty good judge of the line between supporting your team and embarrassing fan behavior.  I was pretty far back from that line.  The chant in question, i believe, was my "you lose" comment done in a deep, comical voice (made with roughly 40 seconds left when the game's fate was sealed).  I probably made it 3 times, and perhaps i should have only said it once or twice.  But in no way should this have warranted the insult heaved upon me by the MM AD.  A prior poster said it best, she was probably just not used to passionate fans.

Second, in no way should MM have been allowed to host that pod.  That gym was antiquated and felt like a glorified high school game.  And it isnt like Merchant Marine was Wash U or Williams, their record hardly warranted preferential treatment when considering other factors, such as travel.  Getting to that game on a Saturday night was absolutely brutal, and an impossibility on Friday night.  The ncaa shouldve done the right thing by traveling fans and the gate receipts and put the games in Lancaster. 

Finally, 52 weeks ago F&M fans knew that they would likely not get the chance to host a Regional finals in 2010 because of hosting in 2009.  All things being equal, the committee wasnt going to award F&M if they had a viable alternative.  This isnt to say the Dips deserve it more or less than SMC, but it is something fans knew going into the season. 

[crambam]

Right, but let's not act as if St. Mary's deserved it MORE than F&M, who BEAT them head to head.  At minimum, F&M should have hosted the round of 32.  Albright?  Seriously?  The results speak for themselves. 

And I agree about MM hosting the games.  Asking people to go on the LIE in rush hour is just asinine.  A dream would be seeing F&M playing at Hunter or NYU.  Now THAT would rule, and I hope that happens some day.  But MM was not a tournament worthy location.

For an 18 mile drive, it took over an hour on Saturday because the traffic was so bad.

Lusty Larry was WELL far back of the line. 

[docmarc]

See everyone on Saturday for Elite 8 action- hopefully F&M gets there and there will not be any awful AD's like at MM. 

This game at SM is still a joke!  It is OK though- like the wins at MM, these tough road tests help F&M on the way to Salem.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Right, but let's not act as if St. Mary's deserved it MORE than F&M, who BEAT them head to head.  At minimum, F&M should have hosted the round of 32.  Albright?  Seriously?  The results speak for themselves. 

Again... F&M didn't have the regional ranking to host over Albright, who finished #2 in the final regional rankings behind St. Mary's. BOTH teams deserved it more then F&M and harping on one game isn't the arguement anyone who knows this system is going to tolerate.

The NCAA has many key factors when it comes to regional rankings and thus hosting locations. Albright's SOS was .564 - 16th toughest in the country - with a regional WL% of .800. St. Mary's had an SOS of .517 (120) and a WL% of .880. F&M, on the other hand, had and SOS of .492 (248) and a WL of .852.

Those stats alone would put SMC ahead of F&M despite the results of one game.

F&M also had a 1-0 record against regionally ranked opponents. SMC's record was 3-1 and Albright's was 4-2. (That is all based on final regional rankings, I might have missed a game or two since I didn't look at all the regional rankings).

All of that combines to SMC and Albright having deserved to host more then F&M. You have got to get over just ONE game played in December when the NCAA committees and those of us here at D3hoops.com look at an ENTIRE season!!! If SMC was 24-1 and lost to F&M who was 15-10 but got the automatic bid... should F&M still be the host???

[crambam]

And that just shows that the regional rankings were poorly assigned, given that there is no case whatsoever that Albright should have been ahead of F&M, who had fewer losses.

Clearly, these SOS stats are bunk, given how Albright, with 5 losses, couldn't win a first round tourney game at home.

Nothing should factor in more than head to head play, especially given the overall W/L records, and the fact that 2 of F&M's losses were by a combined 4 points total.

Albright's performance in the NCAA speaks plenty.

SMC was not 25-1.  And F&M was not 15-10.

3 losses v. 4 losses, and a head to head match up.

In the case of Albright and F&M, F&M had fewer losses and a win of the top ranked team in the region.

[fritzdis]

Clearly, these SOS stats are bunk, given how Albright, with 5 losses, couldn't win a first round tourney game at home.

Because as we all know, one game can tell you everything you need to know about a team.

The SOS numbers may not be perfect, but Albright clearly played a tougher schedule.  F&M played one game all year against a team with a winning percentage above .652.  Albright played 8 such games and went 5-3.

As for St. Mary's, one head to head game at F&M does not erase the fact that St. Mary's lost fewer games to better opponents.  Though it's not one of the official criteria for ranking, I'd also like to point out that St. Mary's only played 10 home games (prior to the NCAA tournament), whereas F&M played 17.

[crambam]

One game doesn't tell you everything you need to know about a team, but it says more than comparing SOS.

Two teams, one loss apart, played head to head.  For purposes of the Elite Eight, let them fight it out.  For purposes of hosting, ignoring last year's hosting, F&M deserves it.  NOT ignoring last year, I understand.

But to actually try to use SOS to deal with teams this good when head to head happened, just isn't right.  It might be ok if they didn't play, but they did, and F&M won.  Hopefully they will do it again on Friday.

[fritzdis]

I know that agreement in this case is very unlikely, but I'll give it one more shot:

To be most "fair", the tournament should be perfectly seeded in each section.  The #1-4 team in the section should host the first 2 rounds.  The highest remaining seed after the first 2 rounds should host the next 2 rounds.  An important thing to note is that the teams are not reseeded after the first 2 rounds.

In this context, the importance of a single head-to-head game is reduced because you're not simply comparing 2 teams, you're comparing many.  Even if F&M would win a direct comparison to St. Mary's (a big if), St. Mary's might win a direct comparison with a different team (perhaps Albright, Merchant Marine, or Cabrini), who might win a direct comparison with F&M.  Simply put, the entire body of work MUST be considered to choose 1 team from many.

[Reserved Seat]

Does anyone have anything to say about the match-up?
Which team has improved the most?
Will Griffin get more support from his teammates?
Will F&M control the boards?  50 to 39
F&M, also, had 9 blocks.
Who will miss more foul shots? 8 to 9 last time

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

For what its worth, let us say that instead of a hosting decision, the NCAA was choosing between F&M and St. Mary's to enter the Field of 61 as at large teams.  Here are their resumes using D3hoops.com's SOS matrix.

St. Mary's: RPI 16, SOS 121.  Key wins: None. Bad Losses: at Salisbury
F&M: RPI 48, SOS 270. Key wins: vs St. Mary's, Bad Losses, Hopkins, Washington and McDaniel.

It is difficult because, unlike Division I, teams rarely go outside their region because of costs.  Thus, you are left with small sample sizes, and a St. Mary's team that is likely propped up because of multiple victories over Wesley.  Fair or not, a committee would probably choose St. Mary's as the at-large team.  Remember though, competitive advantage is third in the selection criteria.  First is geographical location, which gives Lancaster an approximate advantage of 50 miles over St Mary's City.  Second criterion is quality of gym / finances.  Assuming SMC's gym gets 100 over capacity at 1300, that is still far less than the reported attendance of 1,650 and 1,850 at last year's bracket in Lancaster.   

[Pat Coleman]

The regional rankings proved that the NCAA would have considered St. Mary's ahead of F&M.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

BTW - for those traveling down from F&M... I would like to make a different suggestion travel wise, especially since you will probably take a similar route to get into Maryland as I do from my home - I-83.

I would suggest after trying two different ways to get to SMC... stay off I-95 south of Baltimore. I know some directions online takes you that way and if you don't get any traffic or accidents, it isn't that hard a trip. HOWEVER, one snarl up will cause havoc with your plans and travel time - it also isn't that interesting a drive from I-95/I-495 to Route 301 on Route 4.

The other option is to continue to follow the Baltimore Beltway (I-695) around to I-97 South towards Annapolis. Follow that until Route 3 south. That will became Route 301 in Bowie and that will take you to Route 4. You follow Route 4 nearly all the way to SMC.

Here is the route via Mapquest.
And here is Google's version - which doesn't include the Route 3 part of the route.

This trip does have many traffic lights... but it is far more interesting and actually will avoid a lot of the traffic you might expect to hit on I-95/I-495.

At the same time... make sure you budget plenty of extra time getting around the Baltimore Beltway if you plan to come down in the 4-6 PM time frame (another reason to COMPLETELY avoid I-95 and the DC Beltway). It will add to what might seem like a simple 3:30 drive.

By the way, from Hunt Valley, MD off of I-83 north of Baltimore, it takes me 2:00 to 2:15 to make the trip - all depends on the amount you push on the pedal. AND watch out for speed traps and cops on parts of Route 301 - but especially on Route 4.

[r.w. mcnickels]

Does anyone have anything to say about the match-up?
Which team has improved the most?
Will Griffin get more support from his teammates?
Will F&M control the boards?  50 to 39
F&M, also, had 9 blocks.
Who will miss more foul shots? 8 to 9 last time

I think the key could be Alex Franz, who will probably have a much better game than he did in Lancaster. He is the Seahawks' second-leading scorer, but shot just 2-for-12 from the field in that game. I don't think you can count on Franz having another game like that. As a team, St. Mary's only shot 30.6% from the field. That number will almost certainly improve. Also, I don't think St. Mary's will be caught off guard by the Dips' quickness.

In a small gym filled with a loud St. Mary's crowd, it's going to take the Dips' best game of the season to advance.

[sunny]

BTW - for those traveling down from F&M... I would like to make a different suggestion travel wise, especially since you will probably take a similar route to get into Maryland as I do from my home - I-83.

I would suggest after trying two different ways to get to SMC... stay off I-95 south of Baltimore. I know some directions online takes you that way and if you don't get any traffic or accidents, it isn't that hard a trip. HOWEVER, one snarl up will cause havoc with your plans and travel time - it also isn't that interesting a drive from I-95/I-495 to Route 301 on Route 4.

The other option is to continue to follow the Baltimore Beltway (I-695) around to I-97 South towards Annapolis. Follow that until Route 3 south. That will became Route 301 in Bowie and that will take you to Route 4. You follow Route 4 nearly all the way to SMC.

Here is the route via Mapquest.
And here is Google's version - which doesn't include the Route 3 part of the route.

This trip does have many traffic lights... but it is far more interesting and actually will avoid a lot of the traffic you might expect to hit on I-95/I-495.

At the same time... make sure you budget plenty of extra time getting around the Baltimore Beltway if you plan to come down in the 4-6 PM time frame (another reason to COMPLETELY avoid I-95 and the DC Beltway). It will add to what might seem like a simple 3:30 drive.

By the way, from Hunt Valley, MD off of I-83 north of Baltimore, it takes me 2:00 to 2:15 to make the trip - all depends on the amount you push on the pedal. AND watch out for speed traps and cops on parts of Route 301 - but especially on Route 4.

Any time you can take 301 from Bowie south as an alternative to 95 (other than during periods of low traffic - like, say, in the middle of the night), I highly recommend it.  As Dave said, there are lights, but you generally know what you are in for on 301.  95 south of Baltimore all the way to Richmond is a roll of the dice.  So, in addition to a trip to St. Mary's, for you Lancasterites ... next time you're going to Richmond or points south, consider 301 to VA 207, which will dump you back onto 95 just north of King's Dominion.  Parts of it can be slow, but it's a pretty drive and far less stressful than MD burbs/DC/NOVA on 95.

[Reserved Seat]

Quote from jamo325

Just spoke with someone "in the know" at SMCM...they sold out of their allotment of 600 tickets in less than five hours today. Should be interesting down there on Friday evening.

Certainly doesn't seem fair, when F&M only received 200.
I can understand the home team getting more tickets but this apportionment seems disproportionate.