MBB: Centennial Conference

[division3]

DIII - not sure what you are getting at. I was responding to someone saying Swat's admission standards are the same as F&M's. They are not close. I ask you, what background do you have on judging college talent. I have coached for 24 years including high school and AAU that put several young men in college basketball. I coached a young man who is playing DI this year. Both of Swat's guards this year are much better than him. F&M has made it to the final four and final eight the last two years. How are they not a great DIII team? I have followed DIII for the last 28 years and have watched Ithaca College, Hamilton, Hobart, St. Lawrence, Clarkson and several other DIII teams. I think I have a pretty good grasp of DIII basketball. I said there are a few players capable of playing at the mid-major level, not all players in the league. Have a wonderful rest of this gorgeous weekend!

swat dad...you make me laugh. you have already said and done many things on this board that are indeed entertaining and i thank you for that. now i am asked to compare my background with yours to justify my basketball opinions. ridiculous. by the way,the most entertaining thing in your last post is that swat's guards are "much better" than your D1 player. if that were remotely the case, safe to say swat would have gotten a lot more "w"'s than they did, don't you think coach?... they say "love is blind". go swat! happy easter you silly wabbit.

[Swat Fan #1]

So I take it therefore, you have no basketball background and therefore can ridicule anyone's opinion that is different than yours. In fact, I can't think of an issue or opinion you made on here. You only put down others.  Yes both Allen and Martinez are better than a kid I coached who is on a DI team and played in most games this year. Top DI talent is on a different planet, but lower mid-major teams are filled with players who are not that much better than top DIII talent. But, your superior basketball mind knows more than us lowly earthlings. I must admit, you make me laugh too. You are the type that says Bush sucks, Obama sucks and then has no opinion on what person would be better and then says supporters of either are wrong. So coach, tell me about your opinion of mid-majors and let me know your background on these teams. I anxiously wait your reply.

[Pat Coleman]

Swat Dad: None of those teams you listed has really done anything nationally in decades. F&M is the only one that's gotten to the Final Four in the Pools era, and they haven't beaten anyone from outside this half of the country to do so, pretty sure.

The Mid-Atlantic/Atlantic/East/Northeast is not considered as strong as the South/Great Lakes/Midwest/West half of the country. Your frame of reference to make comparisons about F&M is a little limited.

F&M is a good Division III program over that stretch, but there are great Division III programs as well. F&M might be on that list -- they would certainly be considered -- but in Division III, merely advancing in the tournament is not the be-all and end-all. The bracket is still constructed primarily regionally.

[division3]

So I take it therefore, you have no basketball background and therefore can ridicule anyone's opinion that is different than yours. In fact, I can't think of an issue or opinion you made on here. You only put down others.  Yes both Allen and Martinez are better than a kid I coached who is on a DI team and played in most games this year. Top DI talent is on a different planet, but lower mid-major teams are filled with players who are not that much better than top DIII talent. But, your superior basketball mind knows more than us lowly earthlings. I must admit, you make me laugh too. You are the type that says Bush sucks, Obama sucks and then has no opinion on what person would be better and then says supporters of either are wrong. So coach, tell me about your opinion of mid-majors and let me know your background on these teams. I anxiously wait your reply.

Swat dad, I am sorry you feel the way you do. I have re-read our posts and to me yours are aggressive, overly personal and quite odd. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. May I make it up to you by offering to send you an autographed ball by the 2010 F&M men's basketball team?

[Swat Fan #1]

Nope didn't hurt my feelings, was just replying to your posts. I think your posts are the ones that are personal, but whatever. I take it you are a student with little experience of basketball other than watching it from the stands. Therefore, I forgive you and no, not looking for an autographed ball. If Swat gets to where I think they can in a couple years, I will send you an autographed ball. Should I send it to MacDonald's or your home? Oh just kidding..... lighten up.

[division3]

Nope didn't hurt my feelings, was just replying to your posts. I think your posts are the ones that are personal, but whatever. I take it you are a student with little experience of basketball other than watching it from the stands. Therefore, I forgive you and no, not looking for an autographed ball. If Swat gets to where I think they can in a couple years, I will send you an autographed ball. Should I send it to MacDonald's or your home? Oh just kidding..... lighten up.

I am calling a truce with Swat Dad that I will attempt to honor. I will try to limit my Swat Dad exchanges to basketball discussion only. Back to an earlier post by Swat Dad related to Swat guards...most, not all teams in the CC, have better guards than Swat. To single out Martinez (who has alot of potential) and Allen (who was not a particularly special player) in our conference as examples of low mid major quality guards makes no sense to me, particularly with a host of guards that are better than them in our league. Do you consider Ivy League basketball mid major or low mid major basketball? If so, very few of the best guards (players) in CC would thrive there and if they were on an Ivy team, my guess is they would have a career largely lived on the bench (maybe Dartmouth is a possible exception). we could easily say remy (ursinus) and milligan (F&M) are two of the best guards in CC last season...I don't think they would fare very well there.

[Gabriel]

Nope didn't hurt my feelings, was just replying to your posts. I think your posts are the ones that are personal, but whatever. I take it you are a student with little experience of basketball other than watching it from the stands. Therefore, I forgive you and no, not looking for an autographed ball. If Swat gets to where I think they can in a couple years, I will send you an autographed ball. Should I send it to MacDonald's or your home? Oh just kidding..... lighten up.

I am calling a truce with Swat Dad that I will attempt to honor. I will try to limit my Swat Dad exchanges to basketball discussion only. Back to an earlier post by Swat Dad related to Swat guards...most, not all teams in the CC, have better guards than Swat. To single out Martinez (who has alot of potential) and Allen (who was not a particularly special player) in our conference as examples of low mid major quality guards makes no sense to me, particularly with a host of guards that are better than them in our league. Do you consider Ivy League basketball mid major or low mid major basketball? If so, very few of the best guards (players) in CC would thrive there and if they were on an Ivy team, my guess is they would have a career largely lived on the bench (maybe Dartmouth is a possible exception). we could easily say remy (ursinus) and milligan (F&M) are two of the best guards in CC last season...I don't think they would fare very well there.

division3,

I agree, both Cousart & Milligan have their strengths at the DIII level, but neither shoots well enough to make their mark in D1----which is why they are playing DIII.  One of the best point guards to come out of the CC in recent years was Mike McGarvey.  He could do it all in DIII competition but was too small and not quick enough to get any playing time at almost any D1 program. Coming out of high school, he was a borderline D1 recruit--by Ivy and Patriot League Schools.

[Gabriel]

Ursinus alum Steve Donahue just named Head Coach at Boston College after a terrific run at Cornell.

[division3]

Gabriel...didn't know donahue was an ursinus alum. great coach. i am happy for him. also, mcgarvey is a special person and i wish i had seen him play. he must have been nasty. his numbers  were great. nice to see him on the bench with smalls. a real gentleman. i know him and dennis stanton from sports challenge and both are fine young men. as i am sure you know, stanton was an off-the-charts shooter.i have seen video of him pulling from very, very deep in his european league days.

[Gabriel]

Gabriel...didn't know donahue was an ursinus alum. great coach. i am happy for him. also, mcgarvey is a special person and i wish i had seen him play. he must have been nasty. his numbers  were great. nice to see him on the bench with smalls. a real gentleman. i know him and dennis stanton from sports challenge and both are fine young men. as i am sure you know, stanton was an off-the-charts shooter.i have seen video of him pulling from very, very deep in his european league days.

divison3,

Stanton's game improved so much as a senior at Ursinus---averaged over 30 per game.  Given a chance, he could have played D1.  Coming out of high school he was not that highly recruited and, in fact, started his collegiate career at Dickinson.  Nick Shattuck is another player who could have played low D1---Ivy or Patriot league.  Both will tell you that they would not trade the Ursinus experience.

Sports Challenge----you must know the Ursinus/Haverford crowd.

[cocoh2oDad]

Swat Dad, Just a quick question. Out of pure, simple, non judgmental curiosity, you speak much in your posts about your 24 years as a high school coach and "experience"in the game, but have you ever played the game of basketball on any level? I don't recall you making mention of that in any of your posts. Sorry if I missed that.
As for the multi post conversation about CC and DIII players being able to play on the mid/low major D1 or Ivy level. Please, unless any of those having the conversation have experience, 1- as a player who then goes on to coach on the college level and 2- as a father who played the game and now has had a son who has gone through the meat grinder called D1 Basketball recruiting, I don't think you can fairly assume and or evaluate who is worthy of playing and contributing on these certain levels. I know and have had enough experiences with quite a few "never played the game coaches" and "social networking fans" of the game who quite frankly have no right to speak with authority or judge that aspect of this great game. There is a lot to be said for playing the game itself, competing with those on the court with you, knowing what it takes to win and lose a game on the court, being a teammate, having the mental pressures of a packed house/game on the line/shooting 1 and 1, going through a shooting slump, coming back from an injury maybe before your healthy because you love the game and your teammates, or being coached and under developed by a "COACH" (who never put on a jock in his life thus experienced none of the above) during your most formidable and growing years as a basketball player. I truly believe unless you have experienced all or most of this you are in no way qualified to judge who is worthy of playing on what level. Sitting on line and hiding behind a blog/posting name or coaching the game you never had the ability to play does not qualify you to make these assessments, especially if you have no clue as to that particular player's history and what they have been exposed to and experienced. Just an opinion from someone who HAS experienced all this and more. Are there exceptions? Sure, but a very minor few. These sites have given birth to way too many who now have a false sense of bravado and  to those who think they have a big pair when in fact they truly haven't earned them. I will say, this site is much more civil then many others I've seen and read but as you can tell this is a huge thorn in my side and I appreciate the forum to express my passion on the subject. Enjoy this early summer weather all.       

[Swat Fan #1]

Wow, don't come on here a couple days and all heck breaks loose. DIII sounds good. I love talking hoop. Coco - sounds like you are calling me out. Ok - I played basketball from second grade through varsity. My high school team was state ranked all three years I played including finishing the #4 ranked team in Class B in New York State. I was recruited (ok coach said to try out) but did not play college ball although I scrimmaged with them all the time. I may (and I say this lightly, may have made the team as a #14 guy who would have carried the towels and water). However, I have coached High school ball for 24 years at a high school and town that is nuts about hoop. We average over 800 fans a game in a high school that graduates about 70 a year. We have gone to the state final four and have won several sectional championships. I also had the wonderful experience of coaching an AAU team for four years that every single player on it is now playing college ball (including a DI player who plays for a local college). I have also coached at college camps and AAU college recruiting tournaments.  I have also gone through the entire DII recruiting process including official visits, scholarship offers, ect. So, I feel I do have a pretty good feel for college ball. So, what is your story? I am sure mine will pale by comparison, but I would love to hear. Maybe I can learn something from you.

[BRCE4]

Swat Dad
     You obviously have an exstensive hoops background but I have to agree with those who question your statement about Swat's guards. They are solid DIII players but they are not DI players and they need not apologize for that. They are playing for a great school in a good conference but like every player in the conference, they are playing at the right level.

[Swat Fan #1]

Ok you are correct. What I was talking about was the terrific play of F&M and that the top players in the CC could make some mid-major teams. The two Swat guards are good DIII guards. All I was trying to say (and I did a crappy job) was that I was lucky enough to coach a kid who is playing on a DI team. In my humble opinion, I think the two Swat guards are as good as him. He is a walk-on but got significant playing time as a freshman. If I have said anything that offended anyone, I apologize. All I was trying to say was how good the play is in the CC and how good I thought F&M really was. I will try in the future to keep everything positive and not get in a p***ing match with some posters. And, I do not want an autographed basketball, we have enough crap in this house and my wife would kill me. There is my pathetic attempt at humor.

[Gabriel]

http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/archives/cracking-the-financial-aid-code.html

Thought you all might enjoy this article from Kiplinger's Personal Finance which addresses Ursinus' admission process.  Relates to recent postings.