MBB: Centennial Conference

[Pat Coleman]

the Commish needs to get involved.  #1cc team > #2csac team.  we shoudl be in GMC's spot traveling to ramapo and those losers should be traveling to VA Beach

F&M needs to schedule better to avoid this in the future, I guess.
http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2011/bracket-released

Full bracket for those who need it.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

obviously theres nothing he can do, my point is to clarify that the CC should at least express anger at this ridiculousness.  the mileage difference between VAW hosting the pod and F&M hosting the pod is negligible.  F&M was reg season and conf champs.  we should be hosting this pod, or we should be in GMCs spot. PERIOD

[docmarc]

We should not be in this pod- this is right.  But F&M has gained no favor from its not tough out of conference schedule- they were killed by the selection committee.  Winning the CC is no big deal I guess.  What is the word on NC Wesleyan?

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

Fact: F&M played 3 regular season conference champs.  please bring your scheduling argument to a board that needs it.  not this one

Doc and pat, please get your facts straight before posting

[Reserved Seat]

From NCW's site
15-1 to end the season
Dougherty(6'4") 15.4 pts  6.0 rebounds
Thomas(6'4") 13.8 pts.  6.5 rebounds
Murrqy(6'4") 12.6 pts.
Snow(6')
Nichols(6'3")
Yarbrough(6'7")

[oftdip]

Old guy involved with CC since inception but very new to this board...

IMHO, there is still a 'hangover' with F&M since their 2009 Final Four run where they 'enjoyed' the home court run that, no doubt, helped them immensely...

I agree that G-M option would have been more logical... just look at the price of gas these days!!!!

[D.B. Cooper]

Committee attempts to put Dips on a hoops equivalent of the Bataan death march. Team tried to make strong opposition (CMS turned out not to be as good as predicted & Wesley & Albright all lost in semis of F&M's dual 30-40 year old tournaments ruining the schedule strength, perhaps could have played a better road game instead of LBC, but that's only 1 game).

This is a 7-7.5 hour drive for me, it couldn't get any worse. Add to that an injured McNally & team will have to pull off two upsets for the ages just to get to a sweet 16. This is nearly a home game for Bishops who played at VWC during the season.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

i agree 100% with oft dip on this one.  still some resentment towards F&M over 09.  with all the losses this week i'm not gonna look bracket by bracket with regional rankings, but this is bad.  we should be in GMC's spot, but i think the committee is sticking it to us

i also think we're not getting enough credit for teams we played.  like i said, f&m played 3 out of conference teams that won their reg season conference.  how many other teams in nation can make that claim?

thats ok though, we get to beat up a bunch of Methodists for the weekend before the nescac gauntlet

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

As I said in the Landmark board... F&M has no business hosting.

Here are their numbers compared to Vir. Wesleyan:
TEAM              In-Region              OWP            OOWP             SOS         Reg. Ranked
F&M               20-5 (.800)            .468              .452              .463            0-2 (.000)
VWC              21-4 (.840)            .492              .533              .506            4-1 (.800)

I think Pat and Doc can post all they want as they do have their facts straight... Lusty you do not. You are going on wishful dreams and this thought there is a vendetta. What was the problem in '09? F&M made the Final Four!!!

Furthermore... being the regular season and tournament champs means NOTHING when the Centennial Conference and nearly every other conference in the country indicates to the NCAA that it's AQ will come from a tournament. If the Centennial would like to change its mind and reward that to the regular season champ... more power to them... but being the champ at both means nothing.

[r.w. mcnickels]

obviously theres nothing he can do, my point is to clarify that the CC should at least express anger at this ridiculousness.  the mileage difference between VAW hosting the pod and F&M hosting the pod is negligible.  F&M was reg season and conf champs.  we should be hosting this pod, or we should be in GMCs spot. PERIOD

The NCAA released the final regional rankings along with the bracket today:

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3

Even with the conference title, F&M remained below GMC in today's ranking. Many people said last week's loss to Dickinson didn't matter for F&M. But had F&M won that game, they'd likely be ranked higher than GMC, and possibly headed to another pod instead of a death march to the gym of the South Region's No. 1 team, Virginia Wesleyan.

The only potential bright spot is that the Dips proved they could win away from Mayser in last year's tournament, being the only team in D-III to win two games on an opponent's home floor (Merchant Marine and St. Mary's) in addition to a neutral-site win.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

d-mac:  doc and pat made a comment about how fandm should schedule better.  but, they played 3 teams out of conference that WON their regular season.  how many teams in the nation can say that?  you are accusing me of lying D-mac, and i posted something that is 100% accurate.  I dont appreciate such disrespect.  playing a reg season conf champ means you played probably the best team in that conference.

the reason the Centennial and every conference in the nation at all ncaa levels (ivy lone exception) uses a tournament format to select the AQ is one word: MONEY.  Even at the D3 level, did you see how many people were at the games in lancaster?  I would venture to say at least 9-10k was made in ticket sales this weekend on that tourney alone.  it has little to do with finding the best team.

i said from the beginning, F&M should be on the road in ramapo in GMC's spot (based on the geography of that pod).  But when comparing VAW and FM, FM deserves credit for winning both the conference and the conference tourney.  

[diplomaniac1]

Folks -

As a long-time Diplomat Fan, I feel the need to jump in here and get my two cents worth in!

In my mind, the Dips' biggest negative is not the schedule issue but rather that they failed to take care of business. They have three really bad losses: one at McDaniel and worse yet, two at home against Ithaca and Dickinson. That is just too many losses at Mayser, which used to be inviolate. Had they won two of those three or all of them, they would have been in a much better position at 24-3 or 25-2 to claim hosting rights.

That being said, I think that they compare favorably to Cabrini and should have been given the hosting nod over them if other issues like the arena were factored in. Finally, tourney games at Mayser are always very well attended. I don't think that the NCAA ever lost money placing games in Lancaster!

Just food for thought. Regards to all.

Eric

[sunny]

the reason the Centennial and every conference in the nation at all ncaa levels (ivy lone exception) uses a tournament format to select the AQ is one word: MONEY.  Even at the D3 level, did you see how many people were at the games in lancaster?  I would venture to say at least 9-10k was made in ticket sales this weekend on that tourney alone.  it has little to do with finding the best team.

I know this was a side topic, but this is really, really wrong. A big reason Division I conferences have tournaments is money - tickets, concessions, and most of all, television. In Division III, money is the reason NOT to have one. (See the UAA, which does not have a tournament - it would mean additional travel expenses on top of their already costly regular season.)  If 9-10 k in revenue was really brought in in ticket sales**, you're forgetting the expenses of officials, travel, etc. It is NOT a big money maker. Besides, every team sport in the conference has a tournament and most don't charge admission. Why do they bother?

The answer is the elusive "student-athlete experience" combined with the idea of giving a team another shot who may have had an injury, etc., in the regular season. If money was the driving force, they'd open it up to an eight (or more) team tournament to bring in more money. Instead, the Centennial Tournament is something you earn a spot in in the regular season and gives the student-athletes a chance for additional competition.

**That is highly unlikely. Are you forgetting that students of participating schools get in free with student ID?

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

Sunny, tickets were $5 for non students (some 3$ packages in there too, i dont remember).  per offical box score there were 1600 people at Saturdays FM/Ford game and 2000 at dickinson/FM game.  Ballpark, i'd say 1/4 were students, but lets say 1/3 were.  thats 2400 non students, and lets add 200 for those who attended GB/Dick and left.  so thats 2600 tickets at an average of $4 per ticket.  Thats 10k. 

i dont want to argue the point, because frankly i dont have the financials.  If the commish comes in and sees this post perhaps he can shed some light.  my original point to dave was simply the best team usually wins the conference Reg season, but not the tourney (as that is a bigger crapshoot), and wins of reg season conf champs should not be held valueless.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Lusty - vast majority of teams in the nation that won their regular season crown won the conference tournament this year... only a small percentage did not (ODAC, NESCAC come to mind and the top of those conferences is better then anything the Centennial can put together).

F&M's schedule is the problem... you brag about three teams they beat who won their conference titles. Who???

F&M's out of conference schedule was Penn St-Abington (2-23 lost conf)-win, Elmira (2-23 lost conf)-win, St. Mary's (22-5 won conf)-lost, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (16-10 lost conf)-win (by 1), SUNY-Old Westbury (13-14 - lost conf)-win, Ithaca (20-6 - lost conf)-lost, and Lancaster Bible (12-14 - independent)-win.

Who are you talking about?