MBB: Centennial Conference

[Pat Coleman]

Broken record alert: This isn't the 1990s. You can't buy your way into home games by having a larger gym. Hosting rights earned by seeding as long as everyone can drive there.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

According to the 2011 NCAA division 3 handbook page 7:

The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria
for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure fiscal responsibility.

Unfortunately i dont know how the NCAA defines Quality.  Its not in the book.  My guess is a 3000 person gym is of higher quality than a 1000 person gym, but the term quality might mean only a Minimum quality standard, i dont know.  

And your "broken record" comment is laughable.  No one is corruptly buying anything.  if revenue potential wasnt a consideration, it wouldnt be in the handbook

[Pat Coleman]

It is A consideration but not THE consideration, which is how your post makes it out to be.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

It is A consideration but not THE consideration, which is how your post makes it out to be.

Pat youre missing my point.  I understand the criteria fine.  It wouldnt make sense to say biggest gym always hosts the tournament game (i'm not insinuating that DVC should host, if it indeed had that size gym).  But both F&M and VAW would meet geo requirements.  Looking at the 16 team bracket, if you judge Williams as the 1, then its likely VAW is the 4 and F&M the 5.  Thats one spot in the seeding.  Does that one spot trump the difference in gym size, and possibly double the number of fans?  I mean, theres always going to be a numerical difference in seeding, so why even put the revenue thing in the handbook?

[Pat Coleman]

Yes. There's always going to be a higher seed and that higher seed is going to get to host if:

1. The gym is available
2. It meets the minimum seating requirements
3. Travel is equal in terms of number of flights required

Whether it's one spot or seven, someone is a higher seed and that team will have the advantage if the other items I listed are satisfied.

I understand that when F&M's coach ran the show in Division III more than a decade ago, things were often done differently. But it's not done that way now.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

i love how, if you pry long enough, the truth always comes out.  Pat if you want to be biased against F&M and make accusations against the coach thats your prerogative.  But to come to the Centennial board and be condescending towards F&M fans, well thats the textbook definition of trolling.  And i'm fine with that too, just dont get upset if i start trolling your sacred UAA or CCIW boards.  I come here to kill some time at work and go over to landmark to chat with knowledgeable fans.  you are more interested in defending the NCAA at all costs. You have a preconceived narrative that the NCAA is always right, and God forbid reality or the facts get in the way of that.

as for my point, again, why even put the revenue generating provision in the handbook if it is meaningless?  If theres always going to be a higher seed, then the provisions should end there.  fact is, they dont and when theres only a one or two seed difference the 4th criteria should at least be addressed.

[Pat Coleman]

I get that that's your opinion but the NCAA doesn't share it.

I agree with them on this provision. Hosting privileges should be earned on the floor, not in the stands. I agree with them on other things, too, but not everything.

And just so we're clear, I'm not accusing anything, just stating the facts. Right or wrong, that's the way decisions were made before and the guidelines and practices of the time supported it. But things have changed in the past decade or so, and if you were used to getting your way as an F&M fan because an F&M guy ran the show for several years, this is probably a bit of an adjustment.

Your reality is not necessarily based in facts, at least, not the facts that the NCAA considers nowadays.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

::Hitting head into wall repeatedly::

Lusty - VWC has hosted plenty of their share of tournament games. I have been there twice for Sectional Weekends. Their facility is actually very good and they can bring in plenty of temporary bleachers to boost the seating capacity.

Things you are ignoring:
- This isn't ten years ago... hosting is choosen by a central location, but by a school that can do it and is the higher regional seed (i.e. La Roche is the higher seed and did NOT apply to host).
- Pods are NO longer regionally based. The national committee wants teams from as many different regions as possible to play one another in first and second round. VWC's pod features two south region teams, one from the Atlantic, and one from the Mid-Atlantic.
- The NCAA allows busing up to 500 miles away for a game... so instead of the committee sending teams to their nearest site for games they may have already had earlier in the season or face conference foes early on in the tournament... they may send them much further away.

You can complain all you want.. but this has been the scenario for YEARS now... there is NOTHING new to this process. I personally thought F&M would get shipped north or west... so VWC surprised me. However, it is a great place to see a game and if you are deciding to hit the road to get there... enjoy.

By the way... you don't have to take the tunnels to get to VWC. My two trips from Baltimore to VWC have been via the interstates and through Virginia and right off the interstate and onto campus. It is not that hard a drive. I actually took the "scenic" route through the Chesapeake Bridge and Tunnel system and that took too long on the way home.

Enjoy the tournament and the games... and hopefully we see F&M make a run and emerge in the Sectionals - but then get ready to complain you are headed to Williamstown, MA.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

D3hoopsfan- get a life?  I don't have a life because I am responding to someone blasting F&M's coach and F&M.  What is this- Pat Cummings revisited?

You might want to consider letting go of something that happened nine years ago.

pat you might want to take some of your own advice.  i've been around F&M for about 12-13 seasons and i dont really know what youre talking about, so my guess is it happened in the 90's.  You probably should let that go. 

again the fact is the provision is in the handbook and i still dont have an answer as to why its there

[r.w. mcnickels]

Lusty, I've noticed that seeding has been the most important criteria in recent years. If the higher-ranked gym holds more than 1,000, it will generally host. Take a look at the final regional rankings of this year's 13 pod hosts and 3 bye teams:

6 teams ranked No. 1 (La Roche and Purchase either didn't apply or can't host)
7 teams ranked No. 2
3 teams ranked No. 3

At No. 5 in the region, F&M was going to travel somewhere. To me, the bigger issue is which pod the Dips were sent to. Cabrini or Ramapo made more sense to me.

We can also look at last year, when F&M went to St. Mary's even though Mayser is a larger gym and the Dips beat the Seahawks head-to-head -- they ended the season ranked lower. I'm not saying I like the situation, just that it isn't surprising.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

D3hoopsfan- get a life?  I don't have a life because I am responding to someone blasting F&M's coach and F&M.  What is this- Pat Cummings revisited?

You might want to consider letting go of something that happened nine years ago.

pat you might want to take some of your own advice.  i've been around F&M for about 12-13 seasons and i dont really know what youre talking about, so my guess is it happened in the 90's.  You probably should let that go. 

again the fact is the provision is in the handbook and i still dont have an answer as to why its there

Lusty - it is there to divert a hosting opportunity from a school that while they may deserve it in ranking... don't have the facility to manage it.

There have been several occasions (i.e. Lawrence in '04?) where a school has been passed over to host because their facility was not up to quality and the like. It isn't there to say that one facility is better then another and thus a lower ranked team can host... it is there to make sure there are enough seats and the quality of locker rooms and the such is satisfactory.

You can't think of it top down... but rather bottom up.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

hey rw,  I've noticed that same thing, it was very unlikely we would host a pod.  I was saying on the landmark boards earlier, in reality the only places that made sense were SMC, Cabrini or Ramapo.  Once RMC was shipped to SMC, there was no way they would create a death pod, so that left Cabrini or Ramapo.  the VaW thing was a shock, but really no way id do that drive, its a hike and hellish traffic around the tunnel.  If they go to williams, thats far but an easier drive. 

and dmac, the reasoning you gave me is applicable to criteria 1, not criteria 4 which is the one in question.  again i'm not complaining, simply trying to discuss this from the angle that when you look at the selection criteria, its not as black and white as it seems

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well... Cabrini, Ramapo, SMC, and VWC have all proven they are viable sites for hosting when it comes to ticket sales... so essentially it isn't an issue with them.

Also... you can avoid the tunnels to VWC by heading south through Baltimore and around DC into Virginia - that is how I get to VWC and I never head through a tunnel as a result. In fact - I did take the tunnel/bridges back to Baltimore one year and it was FAR longer.

Finally... the ODAC/VWC will be providing video/audio of all the games in VWC... so you won't miss out.

[saratoga]

I think Regional "seeding" becomes a joke when factoring in who hosts & who does not...especially considering the number of "high seeds" from the Middle Atlantic & Atlantic who are not even in the tournament.
What we can conclude from this is that many of these teams were given far too heavily weighted assignments right from the start.
By the way, money means everything to the NCAA...that's why they allow the station covering the Final IV to dictate the ludicrous starting times. Therefore, why not make a pot of gold along the way & place host sites at schools that cover all sections of the NCAA Bible except for "seeding" since that is by no means accurate or impartial anyway?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

saratoga - there is no station controlling the championship game this year... no TV at all... the game is at 3:30 and it will be a video-streamed game only.

Also, what "high seeds" were left out of the Mid-Atlantic and Atlantic. According to the final regional rankings #6 Lebanon Valley was left at the table in the MA and #4 Kean was left at the table in the Atlantic. I wouldn't call them high seeds, especially in an Atlantic region of only about 5 teams.