MBB: Centennial Conference

[mulefreak02]

countdown until the mules beat the overrated f&m diplomats:

5 days

can't wait until saturday! UC hooligan, will you be dropping by memorial hall for the occasion?

[ddm1027]

Coach Small has done a nice job during his tenure at Ursinus.  This is especially true considering he is much more limited by the school's name recognition and his ability to recruit outside of his immediate region than most other colleges in the CC.  Ursinus only has 3 guys who are not from PA/NJ while F&M has 6.  The more elite academic schools (JHU, Swat, Haverford) also usually tend to have more geographic diversity on their rosters.  For years I found it interesting that a few of Ursinus's most commonly run plays are sets that Swarthmore runs as well.  I guess this makes sense given Small's history as an assistant under Wimberly.  They have historically worked better with a Dennis Stanton/Nick Shattuck coming off the screens.  I'm sure the F&M people will love the comment over which team had the best decade.  Looking back, I'd have to give F&M the edge.  They are definitely the class of the conference now, which sadly isn't saying as much overall as it used to.  The CC appears to be a one bid conference this year unless F&M stays nearly perfect but then loses in the playoffs. 

[D.B. Cooper]

Tough picks:
2/1/12
F&M (expect hard game)
Washington college
G-burg
Dickinson
Muhlenberg

2/4/12
Ursinus
Haverford
Johns Hopkins
Washington
Muhlenberg (Dips are most likely to toss this game or the game at Dickinson, or both to risk hurting there post season status)

[fritzdis]

I'm sure the F&M people will love the comment over which team had the best decade.  Looking back, I'd have to give F&M the edge.

I'll admit I was initially a bit incredulous at declaring Ursinus as "clearly" the best, but a good case can be made.  Assuming we're talking about 2000-01 through 2009-10, Ursinus had 4 conference championships to F&M's 2, 9 conference playoff appearances to F&M's 7, and a slightly better conference record (4 wins better, I think).  Their 3 1st-round NCAA tournament exits prior to 2008 make it a bit less clear, as F&M won at least 2 NCAA games each of the 3 times they were in the tournament.  Still, Ursinus probably edges F&M as the best team last decade.  Gettysburg was also fairly close, with 3 championships, 10 playoff appearances and about the same number of conference wins as F&M, but I think their lack of NCAA tournament success keeps them out of the top 2.

If 2010-11 is included instead of 2000-01, that might swing it in F&M's favor, and Ursinus certainly wouldn't be "clearly" better.

[ddm1027]

Does Ursinus win many recruiting battles against F&M?  Given that this is a key late period for recruiting, I would be interested to know the pecking order within the conference (obviously it does not always hold true) since many players must be picking between many of the schools.  I'd love to hear a boiled down version of the coaching pitches that sold people/their children on the schools as well.

[Gabriel]

ddm1027,

Couldn't agree more.  Many of you don't know that Coach Small was a "part time" coach until 2006---he was working three part time jobs.  Ursinus was the last school in the CC to hire a "full time" men's basketball coach.  He spent much of his tenure at Ursinus without a full time assistant until he was able to hire Mike McGarvey after the final four run in 2008.  He has always done most of the recruiting himself although Mike was a big help before leaving for Colgate.  I would guess that no school in the CC has a smaller budget for men's basketball than Ursinus.  Their trips to Italy last summer and to Las Vegas this winter were paid for by fund raising events scheduled,  coordinated and run by Coach Small.  The product is not always pretty, but no coach works harder for his school and his team than Coach Small.

[dipphan]

Two days before f and m destroys the bears and five days before the dips beat down the mules .  uchuligan and mulefrrak can eat me.

[dipphan]

Mchugh fandm has had zero road losses- how does that work against them?   f and m should be #1 in the region.  noone is better!  f and m all the way!  bears and mules going down!

[Reserved Seat]

F&M/Gettysburg has always been a big rivalry.  F&M, Gettysburg, and Dickinson have the Little Three going in most sports.
Ursinus/F&M don't recruit many of the same players, so there's not much of a battle for players.
Gabriel, I plan on being in Collegeville Wednesday.

[UCHooligan98]

countdown until the mules beat the overrated f&m diplomats:

5 days

can't wait until saturday! UC hooligan, will you be dropping by memorial hall for the occasion?

hi Mule yeah it was great meeting you at the UC/Muhl game.  you know what, i'll try and convince the wife to go to Sands for the night Saturday and if i can i'll swing by allentown for the game.  Didnt F&M lose there last year?  hahaha hopefully history repeats itself!

[Pat Coleman]

Mchugh fandm has had zero road losses- how does that work against them?   f and m should be #1 in the region.  noone is better!  f and m all the way!  bears and mules going down!

How it affects them is that home games (wins or losses) are worth less than road games in the strength of schedule calculation. Teams that play a lot more home games than road games will suffer in that measurement as a result.

[gordonmann]

Speaking of F&M, I sat down with Georgio Milligan and Hayk Gyokchyan on Saturday for an extended interview.

Click here to watch.

[pizzashop]

A quick glance at the publicly available EADA data* suggests that Ursinus was "lower-middle class" in terms of total expense** in men's basketball back in the 2003-04 season and steadily rose to the level of "one-percenter" by the end of the decade. It is also scary to see how much total expenses have gone up in the CC over the last half-decade. Some of it is unavoidable (higher gas prices mean more expensive road trips and food for player on those trips, but gas ain't this expensive).

2003	Franklin and Marshall College	$105,034.00
2003	Gettysburg College	$77,236.00
2003	Juniata College	$72,720.00

2003   Washington College   $67,801.00
2003   McDaniel College   $62,433.00
2003   Dickinson College   $51,919.00
2003   Ursinus College   $49,978.00
2003   Muhlenberg College   $46,192.00
2003   Haverford College   $30,265.00
2003   Swarthmore College   $25,973.00

2010	Franklin and Marshall College	$230,944.00
2010	Ursinus College	$206,246.00
2010	Swarthmore College	$153,221.00
2010	Gettysburg College	$130,712.00
2010	Juniata College	$125,011.00
2010	McDaniel College	$111,949.00
2010	Haverford College	$104,740.00
2010	Muhlenberg College	$88,559.00
2010	Dickinson College	$81,181.00

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

* EADA is fuzzy math and was not designed for comparing institutions to other institutions, however, it is the only data available. It is designed for intra-institutional comparison of expense by gender.
**Total expense is where the math gets fuzzy. It includes every dollar passed through an institution and spent on the sport, even NCAA playoff expenses, which are reimbursed by the NCAA - so the deeper the run, the more skewed the number. Overseas trips are included (F&M 2010 likely includes their Ireland trip). Coaches salaries are also included, but as a full-time equivalency - so if a coach makes $70k, and the school says half his duties are coaching and half are teaching, administrative, etc. they report $35k

[Gabriel]

F&M/Gettysburg has always been a big rivalry.  F&M, Gettysburg, and Dickinson have the Little Three going in most sports.
Ursinus/F&M don't recruit many of the same players, so there's not much of a battle for players.
Gabriel, I plan on being in Collegeville Wednesday.

Reserved Seat,

I will be there too.  Will you be behind the Dips bench? 

[Reserved Seat]

Gabriel, yes, I'll be behind the bench.
Interview with Milligan and Gyokchyan was interesting.  Both young men seemed uncomfortable, especially Hayk.