MBB: Centennial Conference

[Gabriel]

Ursinus came from 15 down with 15 minutes to play to beat Getty by 8.  Donahue and Ward led the come back offensively, but defense and ball control were the keys.  Bears had 15 turnovers in the first half and 3 in the second.  My hat is off to the Bears.   They really struggle but they never quit----always play hard.

Speaking of officiating, the officiating in both the F&M game and the Gettysburg game bordered on incompetent. Against Getty, they were brutal on their choice between blocking and charging.  A hard call, I admit, but the important thing is to be consistent.  Why put the "dimple" rule in if the officials ignore it.  Against F&M, it seemed that we had two sets of officials, one for first half and on for the second.  The two halves were called differently.  It looked like they were intimidated in the second half and Bobby Knight wasn't even there----or was he?  In all honesty, the game was not decided by the officials as Ursinus did not deserve to win.

[Dips75]

I have to admit, I am fairly amused by the blanket statements that get thrown around this board about F&M fans, the generalizations, the lumping all F&M fans together. It seems to come from several different angles here.

[Dips75]

Don't know what the rules are for storming the court -- certainly they are unwritten at best -- but beating No. 8 might qualify. Stevenson storming the court when it beat Wesley earlier in the week, doesn't qualify.

But a weak #8, right? Shouldn't Muhlenberg beating an overrated F&M be not a big deal?

That said, it is absolutely their right to storm the court. It just seems like either beating F&M is that big a deal and there shouldn't be such talk of them being overrated, or beating F&M isn't that big a deal and doesn't really merit them storming the court.

[Dips75]

- haha, Pat with any more teachable moments we might have to start calling you the Professor!  I think my new friend mule, who has always brought insight, deserved the chance to throw it back at the cocky F&M fans.  They act like they own this forum so i hope you can be tolerant of a few free flowing insults as long as theyre tame.

I would hope and trust that Pat Coleman would treat everyone's posts equally, and would not give anyone an exemption just because they are attacking F&M.

[sunny]

Don't know what the rules are for storming the court -- certainly they are unwritten at best -- but beating No. 8 might qualify. Stevenson storming the court when it beat Wesley earlier in the week, doesn't qualify.

But a weak #8, right? Shouldn't Muhlenberg beating an overrated F&M be not a big deal?

That said, it is absolutely their right to storm the court. It just seems like either beating F&M is that big a deal and there shouldn't be such talk of them being overrated, or beating F&M isn't that big a deal and doesn't really merit them storming the court.

The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.  Anyone can think a team is overrated at #8 (even the fans who storm the court), but beating No. 8 is still reason to get excited - even if you are only excited to have "proven" said team is "overrated" or if you're thinking that "hey, they may be 'overrated,' but they are still really good and it's something for us to be excited about."  I think people are automatically thinking that "overrated" means "bad." It doesn't.  No doubt there is a negative connotation, but a team "overrated at #8" may "deserve" to be ranked 20th. Hypothetically, shouldn't a team and its fans be excited to beat the 20th-best team in the country?

I would suspect that the F&M women's team and their fans were excited to win @ Lebanon Valley even though some might make the case that LVC was/is, perhaps, ranked higher than they ought to be.

[Dips75]

Don't know what the rules are for storming the court -- certainly they are unwritten at best -- but beating No. 8 might qualify. Stevenson storming the court when it beat Wesley earlier in the week, doesn't qualify.

But a weak #8, right? Shouldn't Muhlenberg beating an overrated F&M be not a big deal?

That said, it is absolutely their right to storm the court. It just seems like either beating F&M is that big a deal and there shouldn't be such talk of them being overrated, or beating F&M isn't that big a deal and doesn't really merit them storming the court.

The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.  Anyone can think a team is overrated at #8 (even the fans who storm the court), but beating No. 8 is still reason to get excited - even if you are only excited to have "proven" said team is "overrated" or if you're thinking that "hey, they may be 'overrated,' but they are still really good and it's something for us to be excited about."  I think people are automatically thinking that "overrated" means "bad." It doesn't.  No doubt there is a negative connotation, but a team "overrated at #8" may "deserve" to be ranked 20th. Hypothetically, shouldn't a team and its fans be excited to beat the 20th-best team in the country?

I would suspect that the F&M women's team and their fans were excited to win @ Lebanon Valley even though some might make the case that LVC was/is, perhaps, ranked higher than they ought to be.

To some degree, I understand your point. I will say, however, there are some who have argued F&M should not have even been ranked, and had kept them off their rankings for quite a long time this season.

As for whether beating a team that should be somewhere around #20, I think it depends on where your program is as to whether you get excited about beating that team. Like I said, it is their right, but the fact that they stormed the court does suggest it was a very, very big win for them.

[ddm1027]

I think we'll see the CC expand the tournament at some point.  It will probably take a few years of having teams tied for 5th or even 5th-7th and needing to resort to multiple tiebreakers to set the field.  It seemed like this is probably what happened when the 5th team was added (a reactionary rather than fully thought out move by the league and ADs).  Everyone has to agree that adding just a fifth team did not make any real sense.  On the men's side it could be argued that the top half of teams make the playoffs but that does not hold true for the women (who have 11 teams with BMC).  If the CC really wanted to value the regular season so much (as a poster suggested), it should follow the Ivy League and just allow the regular season conference champion to go to the NCAAs (I would rather expand than contract).  Given the "love" F&M has been getting on the board in the last day, I don't think most of the board really wants to value the regular season all that much either.

[ddm1027]

Were there enough fans to fully blanket even 3/4 of the court?  I would be impressed it there was a real court storming!  I see no problem with it when you beat a team at home that is a large favorite.  F&M fans should be pleased that their team is good enough to warrant a court storming.  Do you think anyone rushes the court when they beat McDaniel or Dickinson?

Marcus Denmon's quotation last night after Mizzou beat Kansas and he stopped students from running on the court was very telling: "We know Kansas is a great team but we're at home and we expect to win."

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Marcus-Denmon-topples-Kansas-then-stops-a-court?urn=ncaab-wp8196&active_dimension=carousel_ept_sports_blog&ysp_frm_woah=1

The MC-F&M game was not a case, like the KU match-up, where the game was thought of as something close to a true toss up going into it, so I think they should be able to celebrate a bit.

[oftdip]

As far as storming the court, I applaud MC to actually get that level of energy into any CC building. The Mules got spanked in Mayser so this was a big win to respond that way - getting production from "Lunchbox" Liddic while doing a number on Milligan...3-17 from the field won't happen again (hopefully) this year.
As far as generalizing F&M board members, we are passionate, thought to be knowledgeable about the CC, D3 hoops in general and its uniqueness, loyal and first class as fans. Dip phan obviously, slipped into Mayser via the post-Vietnam GI bill (please no retorts on military career support) - so Dip Phan - please direct your positive energy with Mayser class or, by Amish standards, you will be shunned...
I personally thought the road game @ Dickinson was the away trap game for Robinson's crew... The Dips need to tighten up things if they want to start talking about words like NCAA, home court and Salem in any sentence.

[Swisscheese]

Would love to see F&M meet up with Cabrini in Radnor would be a treat.

[D.B. Cooper]

I felt there was a 40-50% chance F&M would lose to Mules, mules have won 5 of last 10 played. However, it looked like Muhlenberg used a lineup of multiple big long bodies shoulder to shoulder clogging up the paint everytime they realized Milligan needed to drive down the lane, I'm not sure I've seen this type of picket fence set-up with guys that long. If Dips had deadly 3-point shooters this would be a exposed as mistake & would end quickly, but since they wouldn't/couldn't shoot well from downtown it was effective.

Yet in spite of the horrible home cooked officiating & Georgio's sub-par effort, it says something that the Dips had a good chance to win anyway, until the final 60-90 seconds. I noticed the blown 3-point call on Porter but was rebuffed by a Mule fan that said his foot was inside the line, it's amazing what a pair of red-colored glasses let a home fan see. I can't say it was the worst game I ever saw officiated that effected the outcome. It would have to go some to top the Ursinus-F&M game at Mayser in 1981 when the Broderick led Bears shot some 52 free throws & the home team led by Westley & Al Taylor were awarded 8 (Dips winning the non-foul point contest by 18-20 but losing an NCAA contest.)

The team can make up for this by beating Dickinson in a year end game that may be "meaningless" to them, but important for the Devils. 23-2 would be a great regular season that I didn't think possible after I saw them kick the ball around against Neuman in the tip-off event.

[Pat Coleman]

Well, I know you didn't go to Hobart, Warren, but still.

[Pat Coleman]

I would hope and trust that Pat Coleman would treat everyone's posts equally, and would not give anyone an exemption just because they are attacking F&M.

Pretty sure I proved that a page or so back.

[UCHooligan98]

I noticed the blown 3-point call on Porter but was rebuffed by a Mule fan that said his foot was inside the line, it's amazing what a pair of red-colored glasses let a home fan see. I can't say it was the worst game I ever saw officiated that effected the outcome. It would have to go some to top the Ursinus-F&M game at Mayser in 1981 when the Broderick led Bears shot some 52 free throws & the home team led by Westley & Al Taylor were awarded 8 (Dips winning the non-foul point contest by 18-20 but losing an NCAA contest.)

Hi DB.  Being at the game with Mulefreak, we both seemed to think the Mules got away with one.  But watching on replay the player shifts his foot forward right before the shot.  It still looks behind the line, but no where near as egregious as originally thought.  Like i said in an earlier post, if thats D1  it gets immediately reviewed with hd technology, but thats the downside of d3. 

I'm hoping my Bears make a run, i mean at this point theyre in better shape than my Pirates

[fritzdis]

Well, after looking at it again, I realized that I was looking at the old 3-point line (red), which is much more visible on the stream than the current line (blue?).  I can't tell for sure that his toe is behind the line and would never have brought it up if I had realized how close it was.