MBB: Centennial Conference

[CCHoopster]

to me the only team that is likely to beat f&m in the playoffs is muhlenberg (who already has). and they are also the only team that is close to being even with f&m in talent but they are not as deep on the bench. dickinson seems like they would have an outside shot but they are not as athletic or talented. muhlenberg has good guards and a good big in liddic. curry is a very good defender and killing is dangerously quick and scores. liddic is the most reliable/consistent big in the conference in terms of both rebounding and scoring .he rarely has a weak or mediocre game. dickinson has a good point guard and a solid big in wixted but are not as talented, deep or as skilled as f&m. they do play very hard though. i don't see ursinus matching up well with f&m or muhlenberg, even though they actually beat muhlenberg (a surprise). killing had on off game and the ursinus guards shot much better than usual. the bears guards are not very athletic and the bigs don't match up great with salandra and hayk in the paint. kamara rebounds and ward scores but salandra and hayk can do both. krasna is a good point guard but the ursinus guards lack quickness, speed and size in comparison to f&m. milligan is the best guard in the conference when the money is on the line. he likes big games and performs well in crunch time. he is mentally tough. i think f&m or muhlenberg will win the conference when the playoffs come along unless some very strange fluke (which is possible) happens.

Centfan: I will try and rephrase this then....

1)"to me the only team that is likely to beat f&m in the playoffs is muhlenberg"- Why is that true? Mules are an unimpressive 8-7 in CC play?

2)Wixted is better than a "solid big". As a frosh, his numbers are a slim touch below Liddick and other bigs. He bullied Liddick around last night... freshman remember- he is more than solid, by far.

3) Again, why are your Mules the only team likely to beat F&M? I would add Dickinson to the list to beat F&M. 3 pt loss earlier this year, beat them at F&M on senior day last year and tight game in the CC Finals at F&M. Dickinson better this year than last. Remember, Mules are 8-7 in the CC, why all the credit to beat F&M.... Makes no sense.

4) You said, "they are also the only team that is close to being even with f&m in talent." If this were true, why are the Mules 8-7?

5) You said, "i think f&m or muhlenberg will win the conference when the playoffs come along unless some very strange fluke" so if an 8-7 team (mules) (or F&M) does not win, it's a fluke?

Nothing personal just fun debate, with respect in mind! Have a great day CC Fans!!!!!

[r.w. mcnickels]

2)Wixted is better than a "solid big". As a frosh, his numbers are a slim touch below Liddick and other bigs. He bullied Liddick around last night... freshman remember- he is more than solid, by far.

3) Again, why are your Mules the only team likely to beat F&M? I would add Dickinson to the list to beat F&M. 3 pt loss earlier this year, beat them at F&M on senior day last year and tight game in the CC Finals at F&M. Dickinson better this year than last. Remember, Mules are 8-7 in the CC, why all the credit to beat F&M.... Makes no sense.

Even though he's a freshman, I think Wixted has a shot at being on the CC first team. He and Liddic are the two most complete post players in the conference, based on what I've seen this year.

I think any of the top 5 teams can beat F&M right now. Dickinson has probably played the best ball in the conference the past couple of weeks. It would not shock me to see the Devils beat F&M quite comfortably to close out the regular season and then win the conference title in Mayser the following weekend.

[Reserved Seat]

From what I see and read, Wixted seems to qualify for first team.  As of now, I have Liddic, Wixted, Breslin, and Milligan on my first team.  Still trying to pick a 5th player.

[centfan]

cchoopster
the record of dickinson and washington is because they play together
the record of muhlenberg is because they have chemistry problems
muhlenberg matches up with f and m better than any other team at each position in terms of talent
by the way, they are not my mules

[centfan]

was anyone at the ursinus vs haverford game? any reports?

[ddm1027]

Were there enough fans to fully blanket even 3/4 of the court?  I would be impressed it there was a real court storming!  I see no problem with it when you beat a team at home that is a large favorite.  F&M fans should be pleased that their team is good enough to warrant a court storming.  Do you think anyone rushes the court when they beat McDaniel or Dickinson?

Marcus Denmon's quotation last night after Mizzou beat Kansas and he stopped students from running on the court was very telling: "We know Kansas is a great team but we're at home and we expect to win."

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Marcus-Denmon-topples-Kansas-then-stops-a-court?urn=ncaab-wp8196&active_dimension=carousel_ept_sports_blog&ysp_frm_woah=1

The MC-F&M game was not a case, like the KU match-up, where the game was thought of as something close to a true toss up going into it, so I think they should be able to celebrate a bit.

That is an irrelevant link, comment ect in regards to rushing the court. Why in the heck would a team ranked top 5 rush the court after beating another top ranked team. It was logic and common sense to not rush the court- Would make Mizzou look like they didnt deserve or expect to beat KU. No ranked team should rush the court after beating another ranked team when your seperated by a ranking place or two. Especially in January.

Stats are for fans. Last month Kobe bryant had something like 4 straight games of 40 plus and they lost all four.

The Lakers have won 75%+ of their games in which Kobe drops 40+ (an impressive 111 games).  They also didn't lose all of those games in January (but that is beside the point).  Stats being for fans may have been largely true fifteen years ago but that is definitely not the case anymore (for a surface view of this, check out Moneyball).  There is a large yearly conference at MIT on Sports Analytics that was mentioned in the SI article on MIT and Middlebury and the industry is quickly growing at the pro and college levels.  Even in D-III player efficiency and +/- stats strongly influence substitution patterns and playing time.  You do actually have to score to win but it is true that fans often concentrate too much on scoring stats and stats alone don't always tell the whole story. 

[centfan]

2/11/2012
Haverford over Dickinson
Washington over Gettysburg
JHU over Ursinus
Muhlenberg over McDaniel
F&M over Swat

[ddm1027]

Were there enough fans to fully blanket even 3/4 of the court?  I would be impressed it there was a real court storming!  I see no problem with it when you beat a team at home that is a large favorite.  F&M fans should be pleased that their team is good enough to warrant a court storming.  Do you think anyone rushes the court when they beat McDaniel or Dickinson?

Marcus Denmon's quotation last night after Mizzou beat Kansas and he stopped students from running on the court was very telling: "We know Kansas is a great team but we're at home and we expect to win."

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Marcus-Denmon-topples-Kansas-then-stops-a-court?urn=ncaab-wp8196&active_dimension=carousel_ept_sports_blog&ysp_frm_woah=1

The MC-F&M game was not a case, like the KU match-up, where the game was thought of as something close to a true toss up going into it, so I think they should be able to celebrate a bit.

That is an irrelevant link, comment ect in regards to rushing the court. Why in the heck would a team ranked top 5 rush the court after beating another top ranked team. It was logic and common sense to not rush the court- Would make Mizzou look like they didnt deserve or expect to beat KU. No ranked team should rush the court after beating another ranked team when your seperated by a ranking place or two. Especially in January.

The post was more to convey that I'm all for letting the college kids have a little fun when it isn't completely inappropriate.   It was also to show the disparity in the league between F&M and Muhlenburg (and the others in the CC) that the teams and students seem to feel.  Despite some of the talk on the board about how anyone can beat anyone (which can occasionally happen, see Swarthmore beating Washington), even the team that may very well be the second most talented team in the league had their fans rush the court after beating F&M (and didn't have anyone trying to stop it like Mizzou). 

As for Missouri, the fans did the right thing but I would have thought about storming the court given they had just beaten a team that has won the league 7 straight times in the regular season, beaten them 5 times in a row and 10 of the last 11, and won what could reasonably be the last KU-Mizzou game at Missouri, a series that started in 1907, for at least the foreseeable future in a pretty crazy comeback.

[ddm1027]

What do people think about F&M being only 5th in the regional rankings?  Looks like their strength of schedule hurt them but the CC sure isn't getting much respect.

[Reserved Seat]

Not much you can do about the rankings; you just have to keep winning on the court.

[oftdip]

Not too surprised at the #5 for F&M regionally - Mid Atlantic has been weaker than other regions for the past 3-4 years; Centennial, Landmark and MAC are all one team (if that) conferences and F&M's non-conference schedule is certainly having it impact now... Wins over Hobart and St. Mary's are their only hallmark wins this year and both of those teams are re-building as was F&M!?!? Frankly, I will not comment again until after the regular season is complete... Swat at home after their big win vs. Washington and then JHU and a hot Dickinson on the road before playoffs... Dips' defining character is still in the making especially after the Berg/Burg games...

[CCHoopster]

Were there enough fans to fully blanket even 3/4 of the court?  I would be impressed it there was a real court storming!  I see no problem with it when you beat a team at home that is a large favorite.  F&M fans should be pleased that their team is good enough to warrant a court storming.  Do you think anyone rushes the court when they beat McDaniel or Dickinson?

Marcus Denmon's quotation last night after Mizzou beat Kansas and he stopped students from running on the court was very telling: "We know Kansas is a great team but we're at home and we expect to win."

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Marcus-Denmon-topples-Kansas-then-stops-a-court?urn=ncaab-wp8196&active_dimension=carousel_ept_sports_blog&ysp_frm_woah=1

The MC-F&M game was not a case, like the KU match-up, where the game was thought of as something close to a true toss up going into it, so I think they should be able to celebrate a bit.

That is an irrelevant link, comment ect in regards to rushing the court. Why in the heck would a team ranked top 5 rush the court after beating another top ranked team. It was logic and common sense to not rush the court- Would make Mizzou look like they didnt deserve or expect to beat KU. No ranked team should rush the court after beating another ranked team when your seperated by a ranking place or two. Especially in January.

The post was more to convey that I'm all for letting the college kids have a little fun when it isn't completely inappropriate.   It was also to show the disparity in the league between F&M and Muhlenburg (and the others in the CC) that the teams and students seem to feel.  Despite some of the talk on the board about how anyone can beat anyone (which can occasionally happen, see Swarthmore beating Washington), even the team that may very well be the second most talented team in the league had their fans rush the court after beating F&M (and didn't have anyone trying to stop it like Mizzou). 

As for Missouri, the fans did the right thing but I would have thought about storming the court given they had just beaten a team that has won the league 7 straight times in the regular season, beaten them 5 times in a row and 10 of the last 11, and won what could reasonably be the last KU-Mizzou game at Missouri, a series that started in 1907, for at least the foreseeable future in a pretty crazy comeback.

Point taken and respected, DDM! I just feel strong that it sends a different message (maybe I am thinking too much as a player and not as a fan). My feeling is simply when your a top program like MU is this year, you should expect to beat teams like KU and while yes it is special, act like you expected to be in that position after the game, with the win. When VA Weslyan was #1 early this year and Salisbury beat them, that deserved a court storming in my opinion. Mules I guess should have rushed the court earlier this year.... their a 5th place team who beat the #1 team in the league while they are a middle of the road team in the CC trying to hold on to a playoff spot.

[CCHoopster]

Was the last CC tourney not held at F&M in 08, at Ursinus?

[Reserved Seat]

07-08 season was won by Ursinus, so they would have held the play-offs

[sunny]

Was the last CC tourney not held at F&M in 08, at Ursinus?

Yes. Since 2004, when the #1 seed began hosting both semifinals and the semis and championship were played back-to-back days, the hosts have been as follows:
Source: http://www.centennial.org/sports/mbkb/2011-12/Guide/43-48-Honors-Standings.pdf

2004 F&M
2005 F&M
2006 Ursinus
2007 Johns Hopkins
2008 Ursinus
2009 F&M
2010 F&M
2011 F&M

Oddly, the three years that F&M didn't host (06-08), the Diplomats did not make the playoffs. The last Centennial Conference Tournament game F&M has played on the road was the 2003 Championship Game at Ursinus. That is one of only three Centennial Tournament games the Diplomats have ever played away from Mayser - (1998 semifinal @ Muhlenberg and 1995 championship at Muhlenberg). F&M is 0-3 all-time on the road in the Centennial Tournament ... and 17-5 at home.