MBB: Centennial Conference

[CCHOOPS12]

Can we stop talking about how great ursinus is...They went to the final four in 2008...6 seasons ago and since then they have only been to the playoffs ONCE and that was a playoff game lost at home to the Mules.

[CCD3Basketball]

Very interesting discussion on the board regarding Malique Killing! That's all I'll say about it.

And with that, here are my picks for tonight's games:

Dickinson @ Muhlenberg: Speaking of Killing! Both teams have a lot to play for in this game. The Mules obviously have playoff seeding on the line and a potential first round home game/first round bye hanging in the balance. The Red Devils, even though they already have clinched tournament hosting rights, still have a slight, SLIGHT, chance, I think, of making NCAA's as an at large team if they win out and lose in the CC Title game (they would be 22-5 if that happens). The Mules sent a lot of shockwaves earlier this year when they beat the Red Devils, but they also have a couple of head scratching CC losses (against Washington and Haverford). The Mule Barn will no doubt be jacked up for this game and I think that gives them a HUGE advantage. That being said, Dickinson is hosting for a reason: they have been the most consistent team all year long. I'm going with my gut over my head here and say that the Red Devils steal this win, but I won't be surprised if the Mules get the sweep.

McDaniel @ Johns Hopkins: Another great matchup on hand tonight! Hopkins put up a great effort the other day against the Red Devils and just about got the W. McDaniel all but has a first round bye locked up at this point (2 games up on Muhlenberg and JHU for 4th) and as we know it doesn't matter who the 2/3 is for that game. I think you'll see the Green Terror play a lot looser in this game, as Hopkins has a TON of pressure to win this game at home. Not only is Hopkins trying to keep pace, but they have Gettysburg only one game behind, and the Bullets hold the tiebreaker with the season sweep. In the end, I think McDaniel steals this one on the road.

Gettysburg @ Franklin and Marshall: Talk about a night of great matchups! Gettysburg held F&M to 38, 38!, points in the first meeting of the year. I don't think the Bullets can do that twice in a row. The key to this game is the health of Moune (any update on him, Reserved Seat?). If he can play and be effective, that gives F&M the advantage. If he can't, then the Bullets have every chance in the world to steal a huge W. But in the end, I think you'll see the Diplomats be the better defensive team this time around. F&M wins at home.

Ursinus @ Haverford: The Bears have been playing so much better lately. 2 wins in a row (they came back from 24-1 down to beat F&M. 24-1!) and they gave Dickinson a scare. Haverford has been playing the top teams fairly close over the last 2 weeks also. This is a coin flip, but I'll take the Bears.

Washington @ Swarthmore: The Garnet did EVERYTHING right in the first matchup earlier this year, except get the W. They jumped out to a 16-2 lead and led by 9 at the half, but the Shoremen took their first and only lead in the last minute and won by 5. That was the last win for the Shoremen. If Swat can jump out to that kind of lead tonight at home, I say they win. But, I say the Shoremen win this one thanks to the 3 point shooting of Pat Morgan. Looking at his numbers, it looks like he's been slumping lately, but tonight he breaks out and leads the Shoremen to the W.

So, based on my projections, after tonight the standings look like this:

Dickinson 15-2
McDaniel 13-4
F&M 12-5
Muhlenberg 10-7
Hopkins 10-7
Gettysburg 9-8

If my picks hold up (a big IF, I know) looking ahead to Saturday, the Mules host Ursinus, while Gettysburg and Hopkins both have to travel. Advantage Mules.

Curious to see everybody else's thoughts?

[Gabriel]

Can we stop talking about how great ursinus is...They went to the final four in 2008...6 seasons ago and since then they have only been to the playoffs ONCE and that was a playoff game lost at home to the Mules.

CCHOOPS,

I don't think anyone is talking about "how great ursinus is" this year.  They are not great, not even good and we all know that.

[Gabriel]

On Saturday in the WC/Ursinus game there was a call the "was or wasn't", depends on how you look at it.  I have never seen anything like this in my 65 years of involvement with basketball.

I'll set the scene.   Late in the game, Ursinus is leading. Krasna picks off an errant WC pass and goes in for a break away layup.  But wait----he is fouled hard and misses the layup.  No problem, a foul is called, he gets two free throws.  Krasna goes to the line but misses the first shot.  WC rebounds passes the ball down the court and scores on a layup.   Officials are reminded that it is a two shot foul----discuss it----allow the WC layup and give Krasna his second shot.  They gave WC two points for their (the officials) mistake.  The call could have had a significant impact on the game.  Turns out is did not

Question----What is the correct call? How should this have been handled?

[Reserved Seat]

Gabriel, sounds like an incorrect call.  The clock was stopped for foul shooting.  Did Ursinus try to defend the play?  What was the coach's reaction?


CCD3Basketball, sounds like Moune is playing tonight.

[CCHoopster]

On Saturday in the WC/Ursinus game there was a call the "was or wasn't", depends on how you look at it.  I have never seen anything like this in my 65 years of involvement with basketball.

I'll set the scene.   Late in the game, Ursinus is leading. Krasna picks off an errant WC pass and goes in for a break away layup.  But wait----he is fouled hard and misses the layup.  No problem, a foul is called, he gets two free throws.  Krasna goes to the line but misses the first shot.  WC rebounds passes the ball down the court and scores on a layup.   Officials are reminded that it is a two shot foul----discuss it----allow the WC layup and give Krasna his second shot.  They gave WC two points for their (the officials) mistake.  The call could have had a significant impact on the game.  Turns out is did not

Question----What is the correct call? How should this have been handled?

Dead ball. Officials should have blown the whistle and or someone at the table should have had the horn blow (either score keeper, clock or shot clock operator). No way the basket should have counted. Whether Ursinus defended the play or not, whether time came off the clock or not.

[Swat Fan #1]

It is a correctable error and should have been immediately corrected. My questions is why did the score keeper or time keeper or someone let the officials know right away? That is a huge error by the officials! It technically happened all during a dead ball. No basket, no time off the clock. Back at the free throw line for second free throw.

The discussion has been interesting about Killing. I didn't get involved with it but read every comment and thought hard about it. Great coaches get great players to buy into a system. However, coaches also have egos that sometimes get in the way of successful players. I will use an example that doesn't get anyone on the defensive. The Manchester United coach was great, but his ego many times got in the way of great players. He often took guys out after two goals so the player wouldn't get a third. That is bad coaching.

No one has explained what Killing did to get the two technicals. What we do know is he has not been nearly as effective as he was before that game. Is it him? Is it the coach? Or, is it a combination of the two? I am betting the last. The kid is a talent and I would have spent the last few years getting him to buy into the system. Just my two cents.

Here is to the final two games and hoping your teams do well. I honestly thought Swat would be much better this year. They are clearly not. They need to find some scorers for next year because without Kober they really struggle to score. Cheers!

[Gabriel]

On Saturday in the WC/Ursinus game there was a call the "was or wasn't", depends on how you look at it.  I have never seen anything like this in my 65 years of involvement with basketball.

I'll set the scene.   Late in the game, Ursinus is leading. Krasna picks off an errant WC pass and goes in for a break away layup.  But wait----he is fouled hard and misses the layup.  No problem, a foul is called, he gets two free throws.  Krasna goes to the line but misses the first shot.  WC rebounds passes the ball down the court and scores on a layup.   Officials are reminded that it is a two shot foul----discuss it----allow the WC layup and give Krasna his second shot.  They gave WC two points for their (the officials) mistake.  The call could have had a significant impact on the game.  Turns out is did not

Question----What is the correct call? How should this have been handled?

An Ursinus parent who happens to be an active D1 official had this to say about the situation.
First of all, the officials should have blown the whistle to stop play---an inexcusable error when we have three officials.  Given that they did not, they could not take points off the board.  The next step should have been to give Krasna his second shot with no one else in the lane, like a technical, and then to have given Ursinus the ball out of bounds recognizing that the WC basket was allowed.  Sounds better but I would have taken the points off the board.

Reserved---the deep guard did try to stop the basket but reacted too late and the others were still at the other end--as I recall.

[CCD3Basketball]

And this is exactly why earlier today I said, IF my picks hold up! Another night of hoops in the bag and the 5 playoff teams are officially locked in. The only remaining question now comes to seeding.

[Reserved Seat]

This is the play-off schedule according to the Centennial site:
Wed., Feb, 26
TBAMen's Basketball
TBD
@ Franklin & Marshall
Centennial Conference First Round
TBAMen's Basketball
TBA
@ McDaniel
Centennial Conference Tournament First Round
Fri., Feb, 28
TBAMen's Basketball
TBD
@ Franklin & Marshall
Centennial Conference Semifinals
Sat., Mar, 01
TBAMen's Basketball
TBD
@ Franklin & Marshall
Centennial Conference Championship

Why are the games listed to played at F&M?

[Gabriel]

Reserved,

Saw the same thing last night and was puzzled.  Must be a mistake.  Hope the Commish comes on line to explain.

[CCHoopster]

On Saturday in the WC/Ursinus game there was a call the "was or wasn't", depends on how you look at it.  I have never seen anything like this in my 65 years of involvement with basketball.

I'll set the scene.   Late in the game, Ursinus is leading. Krasna picks off an errant WC pass and goes in for a break away layup.  But wait----he is fouled hard and misses the layup.  No problem, a foul is called, he gets two free throws.  Krasna goes to the line but misses the first shot.  WC rebounds passes the ball down the court and scores on a layup.   Officials are reminded that it is a two shot foul----discuss it----allow the WC layup and give Krasna his second shot.  They gave WC two points for their (the officials) mistake.  The call could have had a significant impact on the game.  Turns out is did not

Question----What is the correct call? How should this have been handled?

An Ursinus parent who happens to be an active D1 official had this to say about the situation.
First of all, the officials should have blown the whistle to stop play---an inexcusable error when we have three officials.  Given that they did not, they could not take points off the board.  The next step should have been to give Krasna his second shot with no one else in the lane, like a technical, and then to have given Ursinus the ball out of bounds recognizing that the WC basket was allowed.  Sounds better but I would have taken the points off the board.

Reserved---the deep guard did try to stop the basket but reacted too late and the others were still at the other end--as I recall.

This is not true. The process would be as follows: Option 1- 3 officials have chance to stop inadvertent play on dead ball Option 2- Clock Operator blows horn for an officials/official score keeper timeout 3- Visiting book is referenced where it is acknowledged as a two shot foul and only one has been shot. You CAN take points off the board. It's a dead ball, nothing can take precedents over the original call even a good FG. Game management (live stats) assists with time of the foul, clock is reset, players line up and second shot is taken. You would not clear the line in this specific instance. That can only happen on end of half, game or OT FT attempt, an intentional or technical foul.....

Have you ever seen a 2 shot foul (maybe in the double bonus not a shooting foul on this example) where an offensive player rebounds the first miss and scored it..... Ref blows play dead, most people catch a chuckle and points  never go up. Even if the clock operator gave 2 for the offensive team it would come off. Points can come off.

[Swat Fan #1]

On Saturday in the WC/Ursinus game there was a call the "was or wasn't", depends on how you look at it.  I have never seen anything like this in my 65 years of involvement with basketball.

I'll set the scene.   Late in the game, Ursinus is leading. Krasna picks off an errant WC pass and goes in for a break away layup.  But wait----he is fouled hard and misses the layup.  No problem, a foul is called, he gets two free throws.  Krasna goes to the line but misses the first shot.  WC rebounds passes the ball down the court and scores on a layup.   Officials are reminded that it is a two shot foul----discuss it----allow the WC layup and give Krasna his second shot.  They gave WC two points for their (the officials) mistake.  The call could have had a significant impact on the game.  Turns out is did not

Question----What is the correct call? How should this have been handled?

An Ursinus parent who happens to be an active D1 official had this to say about the situation.
First of all, the officials should have blown the whistle to stop play---an inexcusable error when we have three officials.  Given that they did not, they could not take points off the board.  The next step should have been to give Krasna his second shot with no one else in the lane, like a technical, and then to have given Ursinus the ball out of bounds recognizing that the WC basket was allowed.  Sounds better but I would have taken the points off the board.

Reserved---the deep guard did try to stop the basket but reacted too late and the others were still at the other end--as I recall.

This is not true. The process would be as follows: Option 1- 3 officials have chance to stop inadvertent play on dead ball Option 2- Clock Operator blows horn for an officials/official score keeper timeout 3- Visiting book is referenced where it is acknowledged as a two shot foul and only one has been shot. You CAN take points off the board. It's a dead ball, nothing can take precedents over the original call even a good FG. Game management (live stats) assists with time of the foul, clock is reset, players line up and second shot is taken. You would not clear the line in this specific instance. That can only happen on end of half, game or OT FT attempt, an intentional or technical foul.....

Have you ever seen a 2 shot foul (maybe in the double bonus not a shooting foul on this example) where an offensive player rebounds the first miss and scored it..... Ref blows play dead, most people catch a chuckle and points  never go up. Even if the clock operator gave 2 for the offensive team it would come off. Points can come off.

This!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I don't believe the table can stop the game with a horn. However, I do plan to check in with a few refs I know... though, I have seen a play stand and a correctable error give a team the chance to shoot the free throw(s) and then the game is picked up where it left off.

[commish]

Straight from the home office in Lancaster ...

And here we are ... the teams for the men's basketball tournament have been decided ... now it's time to sift through the possibilities for seeding. 

We know that the Dickinson men will host the semifinals and championship game next weekend. After that ...

3:00 Game
MBB: Gettysburg (9-8) at McDaniel (12-5)

The Green Terror can secure a first-round bye with a victory and, combined with a F&M loss, would be the #2 seed.

4:00 Games
MBB: Franklin & Marshall (12-5) at Dickinson (15-2)
MBB: Johns Hopkins (11-6) at Washington College (4-13)
MBB: Ursinus (4-13) at Muhlenberg (10-7)

The Diplomats can secure a first-round bye and the #2 seed with a victory. A loss opens the door for the Blue Jays to grab the #2 seed and a first-round bye with a victory and a McDaniel loss. A Green Terror win in this situation would give McDaniel the #2 seed and Hopkins could get a first-round bye and the #3 seed with a victory.

A Hopkins loss gives Muhlenberg the opportunity to slip into the #4 spot. A Mule victory would give 'Berg the tie-breaker advantage over the Blue Jays, due to a win over Dickinson.

Hopkins can finish anywhere from #2-5, while F&M and McDaniel can place anywhere between #2-4.