MBB: Centennial Conference

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Fellow Centennial Conference Fans -

F. Y. I. See the following link regarding GRob's recent accomplishment:

http://www.godiplomats.com/sports/m-baskbl/2015-16/releases/20160203nspy4c

Eric

I'm as big an NAIA hater as anyone, but it drives me a little nuts we keep saying G-Rob is the third to 900 wins.  There are three guys in NAIA who have over 900 - two are active, one is ahead of Coach K.  I have a lot of problems with how NAIA runs its business, but these guys did earn their wins.  If you're saying he's third in the NCAA in wins, that's fine, but I wish, especially in an official statement to Congress, he'd get his wording correct.  Then again, it is Congress.


This is with numbers before the season - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_men%27s_basketball_coaches_with_600_wins

Almost everything I have seen from F&M and certainly everything I have said on Hoopsville indicates NCAA... and certainly not all encompassing with the NAIA. If some Congressional lackey wrote a quick script wasn't paying attention to that fact... count me NOT surprised.

If you really want to become a stickler, and I have tried to point this out, we add in women's coaches and the list gets a little more crowded as well.

[Reserved Seat]

Tremendous game at Swarthmore.  In a nip and tuck battle with numerous lead changes, F&M was able to eke out a 72-66 victory.  With numerous players in foul trouble and an injury to Moune,  F&M's subs were able to keep the score close waiting for the second half to begin. Swarthmore went into the locker room with a 1 point lead.  Terrel Phelps, Hines, McGrath and Levy provided key minutes.  Hunter Eggers keyed F&M's scoring in the first half as he played with 4 subs, while Tate, Federici, and Owana sat on the bench with 2 fouls each and Moune spent numerous minutes with the trainer trying to get a nosebleed stopped.  Stern was unable to suit up due to illness.  In the second half Federici took over scoring 27 points helping Hunter who scored 21 points.  Cedric was able to come up with 8 rebounds despite continued pain from his shoulder and face. Walsh, Yonda, Brennan, and Cousineau kept the game close as they each scored in double figures.  Walsh, also, grabbed 10 rebounds as he took advantage of Moune's absence.

[Gabriel]

Exciting game at McDaniel vs UC last night in a battle for the 5 seed.  A tough loss for the Bears which all but ended their playoff run. The loss really stings because they played very well in a tough venue for 35 minutes and led by 12, 64-52 with 4:33 to play.  McDaniel rang up 13 unanswered points and won 65-64.  Ursinus had a possession just before the buzzer but could not inbound the ball cleanly and thus did not convert.

[givengo]

If there's any inconsistency, I see it among the refs and not the players of the Centennial.  This is the worst interp of rules I've ever seen, where weak teams rely on the charge and get that call, many times not deserved and on replay, hard to believe; cheesy touch fouls that shouldn't be whistled are sending teams into double bonus far too early , and refs are controlling the outcome of games--something that should never happen and is not in the spirit of the game.
This is not the way to prepare Centennial teams for post season play.  I've watched multiple rounds of NCAA tournament games first hand in many areas of the country over the past several years.  This way of officiating does not fly outside of this area, promotes soft play and bodes an early trip home for any of our teams if it continues.

[Reserved Seat]

I agree on the charge calls.  No one can explain to me adequately what the arc under the basket has done to change the calling of a charge.

[Team First]

The rules interpretation that I've witnessed of late gives an unfair advantage to the offensive player who puts his head down and drives through a well positioned defender who is retreating with his hands up to at least contest the low percentage shot attempt. What else is a defender to do? Should every poorly set up dribble drive move be defended by a "flop" lest one get called for ticky tack contact? Does the game really benefit from putting the officials in the position of determining a block verses charge call on every well defended drive attempt?

Or does the game benefit from retreating defenders putting up no resistance to a determined dribble drive, essentially conceding lay-ups? C'mon. The officials should let a well positioned defender defend the space he's worked hard to establish. As long as there is no reaching to initiate contact on the shot attempt, keep the whistle silent and play on. Stop rewarding poorly set up dribble drives and reward good defense.

I agree that soft play will not lead to success in the NCAA tournament.

[Reserved Seat]

This is what I read, but I don't see it being called this way.
1. Which defender does this rule apply to?

Forte: "Understand, this applies only to the secondary defender. The primary defender is defined as facing the player with the ball, and there's no required distance — I can be 30 feet from you, but if there's no one in front of us, I am the primary defender, as long as there is a clear path. The secondary defender is defined as picking up the offensive player."

2. Does the offensive player have immunity?

Forte: "If the secondary defender is in the (arc) and contact occurs, it could be a blocking foul, it could be an offensive foul or it could be incidental contact. If the secondary defender comes over and is in the restricted area, there are exceptions to the rule. If the offensive player wipes him out with the arm — wipeout is the extension of the arm from the elbow to the wrist — or if I drive and unnaturally use my knee to push him out or my foot to kick him, offensive foul. Now, we know when an offensive player drives to the basket, the natural move is to put their knee up; that is not an offensive foul. The offensive foul comes when I deliberately use it unnaturally."

3. How does this apply on a fast break?

Forte: "As we know, a fast break is when the defense is outnumbered, a 2-on-1 or 3-on-2. On the fast break, all defenders are considered secondary defenders. If he's in the restricted area and there's contact, it'll be a block (save for the exceptions). If he's outside the restricted area and there's contact, it's a normal basketball play — could be a block, could be an offensive foul.

4. Is the arc treated like the baseline/sideline?

Forte: "If you're on the line, you are in. If I'm a secondary defender and I see the offensive player coming and I realize my heels are on the line and I lift up (and raise my heels), I'm still considered on the line."

5. How do we know if the referee is basing the block/charge decision on the arc?

Forte: "This is the mechanic: The lead (official) will raise his arm indicating we have a foul. He will point to the restricted area indicating and letting everybody know that's a restricted-area play. ... If he's outside the area, the slot referee can come in and tell the lead that it's not a restricted-area play, they would change the call and play on. That's why this point is important. The reason why it can be changed is it's a rule that it can. This is not reviewable by replay."

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I agree on the charge calls.  No one can explain to me adequately what the arc under the basket has done to change the calling of a charge.

The arc is going out another foot next year, I think (maybe I'm wrong).  That should help a lot, because it won't just be under the rim.  Players will really have to be aware of where they are as defenders.

[Reserved Seat]

Supposedly the rule only applies to the secondary defender not the primary.

[givengo]

The rules interpretation that I've witnessed of late gives an unfair advantage to the offensive player who puts his head down and drives through a well positioned defender who is retreating with his hands up to at least contest the low percentage shot attempt. What else is a defender to do? Should every poorly set up dribble drive move be defended by a "flop" lest one get called for ticky tack contact? Does the game really benefit from putting the officials in the position of determining a block verses charge call on every well defended drive attempt?

Or does the game benefit from retreating defenders putting up no resistance to a determined dribble drive, essentially conceding lay-ups? C'mon. The officials should let a well positioned defender defend the space he's worked hard to establish. As long as there is no reaching to initiate contact on the shot attempt, keep the whistle silent and play on. Stop rewarding poorly set up dribble drives and reward good defense.

I agree that soft play will not lead to success in the NCAA tournament.


[/quote
From what I've witnessed I can't agree on unfair advantage to the offense on charges.  I've seen exactly the opposite as far as calls go, with less skilled or lazy defenders sliding into the path of the man going to the basket without getting set, flopping, and receiving calls that should never be made.   Same with guards driving and dishing, where the defender on the guard flops and gets the call.  It's cheap basketball, not skill basketball.

I agree with the second part of your statement though, and wholeheartedly.  Give me good stand up defense any day, and don't whistle players for playing great by the book defense. 

[Polly Math]

You guys are wiser than me if you can detect any rhyme or reason to the charge vs. defensive foul criteria.  I've always thought it has more to do with the particular crew of refs and how their last game went.  Or what they had for breakfast.  Some games they call offensive fouls, sometimes they hit the defense.  Sometimes they call the game tight, sometimes they let things go.

[Reserved Seat]

I'm not wiser.  I'm still confused.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I agree on the charge calls.  No one can explain to me adequately what the arc under the basket has done to change the calling of a charge.

The arc is going out another foot next year, I think (maybe I'm wrong).  That should help a lot, because it won't just be under the rim.  Players will really have to be aware of where they are as defenders.

Yes, D1 is playing with the four-foot arc this year... DII and DIII have a year to implement the arc - thus next year it will be in place officially (some floors already have it installed due to waxing and painting plans).

Supposedly the rule only applies to the secondary defender not the primary.

Right, because 99% of the time the primary defender is next to, in front of, or trailing the player with the ball. There is no way they can get into or near the arc if the player they are defending isn't there already. So thus, the arc restrictions are for the secondary defender who is trying to cut down the play and help the primary defender who has probably been beaten on the play.

The reason this is important is if there is a post-play at or inside the arc, there is a primary defender in position already... thus the refs aren't going to worry about the arc because the offensive player didn't enter the area... he was already there.

The rule is actually pretty simple:
- The defender has to have declared their position with their feet OUTSIDE the arc and not moving (shifting side to side, shuffling their feet, etc.)
- The defender has to be in that position BEFORE the offensive player is going up with the ball - in other words, two steps prior to the offensive player picking up his dribble. Once the offensive player picks up his dribble while going to the basket, the lane and path is now in the offensive player's advantage and any defender then entering that lane is going to be called for the foul.
- If the defender is INSIDE the arc, it doesn't matter when the defender got there - they are out of position. This was put in to keep there from being offensive charge calls on defenders parked UNDER the basket clearly in absolutely no defensive position to stop an offensive player already attacking the rim. The defensive player is just looking for a charge and had no hopes of affecting the play otherwise. If a defender is inside the arc, it is either a block or no call/play on.

I have seen no problems with this rule. It took some adjusting to it and they have determined when the offensive player has gained ownership of the lane to the basket, but otherwise this rule hasn't changed much in the years it has been in place. A defender has to be in position before an offensive player can't do anything about getting out of the way.

Strangely enough, this is very similar to the "shooting space" rule in women's lacrosse, but that does have some other ramifications that make that rule far more confusing. LOL

[givengo]

Understand the rule and like the rule.  I don't understand the calls I've seen all season that don't support the rule.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Regional Rankings: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/10/first-2016-regional-rankings-released-today/