BB: Pool B

[BigPoppa]

If WashU is going to have a shot at it, they need to at least spilt with Carthage this weekend and Webster later this year. They are 2-4 against teams in last year's NCAA regionals (0-2 vs Whitewater, 1-1 vs both St. Scholastica and Illinois Wesleyan).

Thier SOS will really help them late in the year, but they need to start piling up Ws vs SLIAC teams in the next few weeks.

[wustlfan37]

I see that there is a "Strength of Schedule" link on the main page, but it keeps giving me an error message when I click on it...are there numbers posted somewhere detailing SOS?  And are the formulas that the NCAA uses to determine at large bids public knowledge?

[Mr. Ypsi]

I see that there is a "Strength of Schedule" link on the main page, but it keeps giving me an error message when I click on it...are there numbers posted somewhere detailing SOS?  And are the formulas that the NCAA uses to determine at large bids public knowledge?

My guess would be that it is simply too early in the season for anyone to bother wit that data.  While some sunbelt schools have played half their season already, many of us in the snowbelt are 20% or less into the season.

[Just Bill]

That link is likely a placeholder for the future SOS numbers.  The NCAA publishes the formula and the calculations when they publish regional rankings in April. (And then Jim, Pat and everyone on these message boards points out their mistakes and lobbies to get them corrected.)

Sometimes the D3Baseball folks will post their own "unofficial" SOS figures, too.  Essentially the formula is ((OWP)/2)+OOWP)/3

Or in English...
Multiply opponents' in-region winning percentage (OWP) by 2, add Opponents' opponents in-region winning percentage (OOWP) and divide the sum by three.

[JohnnyU]

Pool B teams with at least 5 in-region wins. I don't think this is accurate, but it's close. Feel free to correct it. Thought it might spark some discussion.

Team   Conf         Win%         Rwin%
Emory   UAA   16   9   0.640   16   9   0.640
Maryville (Tenn.)   GSAC   16   7   0.696   16   7   0.696
LaGrange   GSAC   16   9   0.640   15   6   0.714
Washington U.   UAA   13   11   0.542   13   10   0.565
Huntingdon   GSAC   15   6   0.714   12   6   0.667
Case Western Reserve   UAA   14   7   0.667   11   6   0.647
Piedmont   GSAC   15   10   0.600   10   6   0.625
Chapman   IND   16   5   0.762   9   5   0.643
University of Dallas   IND   17   6   0.739   7   5   0.583
St. John Fisher   E8   8   3   0.727   6   0   1.000
Brandeis   UAA   10   8   0.556   6   5   0.545
Ithaca   E8   6   6   0.500   5   0   1.000
Staten Island   CUNYAC   6   6   0.500   5   3   0.625

[JohnnyU]

New Column.. Win% vs. Top 25... How did they do against the best teams? For Pool B teams, not so well. Only WashU and Chapman have wins. A lot of teams still in the hunt for only two bids.

School         Win%          Reg'n Win%      vs. Top25
Ithaca   6   6   0.500   5   0   1.000   0   0   0.000
St. John Fisher   12   3   0.800   10   1   0.909   0   0   0.000
Maryville (Tenn.)   20   7   0.741   18   6   0.750   0   2   0.000
Chapman   19   5   0.792   12   5   0.706   1   2   0.333
Staten Island   10   8   0.556   9   4   0.692   0   1   0.000
Emory   21   10   0.677   21   10   0.677   0   1   0.000
Rochester Tech   6   8   0.429   6   3   0.667   0   0   0.000
Washington U.   19   11   0.633   19   10   0.655   2   4   0.333
Piedmont   18   12   0.600   16   10   0.615   0   2   0.000
Case Western Reserve   19   10   0.655   14   9   0.609   0   3   0.000

[wustlfan37]

New Column.. Win% vs. Top 25... How did they do against the best teams? For Pool B teams, not so well. Only WashU and Chapman have wins. A lot of teams still in the hunt for only two bids.

School         Win%          Reg'n Win%      vs. Top25
Ithaca   6   6   0.500   5   0   1.000   0   0   0.000
St. John Fisher   12   3   0.800   10   1   0.909   0   0   0.000
Maryville (Tenn.)   20   7   0.741   18   6   0.750   0   2   0.000
Chapman   19   5   0.792   12   5   0.706   1   2   0.333
Staten Island   10   8   0.556   9   4   0.692   0   1   0.000
Emory   21   10   0.677   21   10   0.677   0   1   0.000
Rochester Tech   6   8   0.429   6   3   0.667   0   0   0.000
Washington U.   19   11   0.633   19   10   0.655   2   4   0.333
Piedmont   18   12   0.600   16   10   0.615   0   2   0.000
Case Western Reserve   19   10   0.655   14   9   0.609   0   3   0.000

Have all of Emory's 31 games been played against regional opponents?  I know that Denison (2 games) and Marietta (1 game) are in the Mideast, and Hendrix (3 games) is in the West, but I'm aware that there are loopholes and exemptions to the rules regarding what games count towards a team's regional record. 

And I think St. John Fisher's overall record is 12-5, but I don't know much about that region so I'm not sure what their in-region record is at this point.

[CrashDavisD3]

With only 2 spots for POOL B this year, it will go down to the end to decide WHO will be going ?. DI and DII do not have PoolB/Pool C bids just at large bids. Wonder if DIII will ever go that way since Pool B has been shrinking for years. Could make it tougher for POOL B teams to get a playoff spot if Pool B was eliminated.

Nice stats from Johnny U. Too bad it is not easy to align columns with it justified to the left.

[Ralph Turner]

New Column.. Win% vs. Top 25... How did they do against the best teams? For Pool B teams, not so well. Only WashU and Chapman have wins. A lot of teams still in the hunt for only two bids.

School         Win%          Reg'n Win%      vs. Top25
Ithaca   6   6   0.500   5   0   1.000   0   0   0.000
St. John Fisher   12   3   0.800   10   1   0.909   0   0   0.000
Maryville (Tenn.)   20   7   0.741   18   6   0.750   0   2   0.000
Chapman   19   5   0.792   12   5   0.706   1   2   0.333
Staten Island   10   8   0.556   9   4   0.692   0   1   0.000
Emory   21   10   0.677   21   10   0.677   0   1   0.000
Rochester Tech   6   8   0.429   6   3   0.667   0   0   0.000
Washington U.   19   11   0.633   19   10   0.655   2   4   0.333
Piedmont   18   12   0.600   16   10   0.615   0   2   0.000
Case Western Reserve   19   10   0.655   14   9   0.609   0   3   0.000

Have all of Emory's 31 games been played against regional opponents?  I know that Denison (2 games) and Marietta (1 game) are in the Mideast, and Hendrix (3 games) is in the West, but I'm aware that there are loopholes and exemptions to the rules regarding what games count towards a team's regional record. 

And I think St. John Fisher's overall record is 12-5, but I don't know much about that region so I'm not sure what their in-region record is at this point.

One of the "loopholes" is actually a rule change to increase the number of inter-region games that count towards in-region rankings.

Please check out the FAQ's, but the quick way that I remember the Administrative Regions is this way.

Region #1:  North of the Potomac River, except PA and NY.  Therefore, MD, DC, DE, NJ, CT, RI, MA, NH, VT and ME.

Region #2:  PA and NY.

Region #4:  TX, OK, KS, MO, IL WI westward!

Region #3:  Everything left:  VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, MS, LA, AR, TN, KY, IN, MI, OH, WV.

Therefore Emory (Atlanta GA) can play every north and west to Michigan as an in-region game.

[CrashDavisD3]

Thanks Ralph for the great information. That is how Wabash(Indiana) was a in region game to Chapman this year.

BUT Why does the NCAA have 2 WAYS for in region games. Why not just make it simple. In region should be
1) Listed as a team in your region
2) or xxx Mileage from your campus

OR

Just use D3 W-L record and OWP and keep it simple. Not sure of WHY in region trumps overal D3 W-L records. Only really matters for the 17 POOL B/POOL C bids and not the 38 Pool A bids.

[Ralph Turner]

Thanks Ralph for the great information. That is how Wabash(Indiana) was a in region game to Chapman this year.

BUT Why does the NCAA have 2 WAYS for in region games. Why not just make it simple. In region should be
1) Listed as a team in your region
2) or xxx Mileage from your campus

OR

Just use D3 W-L record and OWP and keep it simple. Not sure of WHY in region trumps overal D3 W-L records. Only really matters for the 17 POOL B/POOL C bids and not the 38 Pool A bids.

Wabash should not be an in-region game for Chapman.  That is a mistake.

Not trying to jump down your throat, but do you honestly think that snowbirds like Kean make a trip Spring Training trip to southern California to play mid-season Chapman, if the game will count against Kean?  

Kean gets to try itself against a great mid-season D3 squad so the coaching staff can see what the team needs to do to improve.  

It counts in secondary critieria.

Back in the old days, the 200-mile rule was added for those schools who were within 3 hours of one another, but in a different region.  If your school was on the geographic edge of the region, then it helped you find "in-region" opponents.  This was more applicable to teams in the east.  E.g., York PA (South Region) versus Alvernia (Mid-Atlantic Region) became an in-region game for those teams.

[El Hombre]

With only 2 spots for POOL B this year, it will go down to the end to decide WHO will be going ?. DI and DII do not have PoolB/Pool C bids just at large bids. Wonder if DIII will ever go that way since Pool B has been shrinking for years. Could make it tougher for POOL B teams to get a playoff spot if Pool B was eliminated.

Nice stats from Johnny U. Too bad it is not easy to align columns with it justified to the left.

Two questions:
(1)  Are the Pool B selections based on in-region record AND strength-of-schedule?  Or just record?
(2)  Are Pool B teams eligible to receive a Pool C selection if they do not receive one of the two Pool B bids?

[Ralph Turner]

With only 2 spots for POOL B this year, it will go down to the end to decide WHO will be going ?. DI and DII do not have PoolB/Pool C bids just at large bids. Wonder if DIII will ever go that way since Pool B has been shrinking for years. Could make it tougher for POOL B teams to get a playoff spot if Pool B was eliminated.

Nice stats from Johnny U. Too bad it is not easy to align columns with it justified to the left.

Two questions:
(1)  Are the Pool B selections based on in-region record AND strength-of-schedule?  Or just record?
(2)  Are Pool B teams eligible to receive a Pool C selection if they do not receive one of the two Pool B bids?

The criteria for selection are found on the Handbook message board.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7278.0

Yes, once the "super-conference" known as Pool B has distributed its allocation of bids, the remaining Pool B  teams are put into Pool C.  About 5-6 years ago, we had a Pool B team (WashUStL) earn a Pool C bid.

For more infor, see the FAQ.

[El Hombre]

New Column.. Win% vs. Top 25... How did they do against the best teams? For Pool B teams, not so well. Only WashU and Chapman have wins. A lot of teams still in the hunt for only two bids.

School         Win%          Reg'n Win%      vs. Top25
Ithaca   6   6   0.500   5   0   1.000   0   0   0.000
St. John Fisher   12   3   0.800   10   1   0.909   0   0   0.000
Maryville (Tenn.)   20   7   0.741   18   6   0.750   0   2   0.000
Chapman   19   5   0.792   12   5   0.706   1   2   0.333
Staten Island   10   8   0.556   9   4   0.692   0   1   0.000
Emory   21   10   0.677   21   10   0.677   0   1   0.000
Rochester Tech   6   8   0.429   6   3   0.667   0   0   0.000
Washington U.   19   11   0.633   19   10   0.655   2   4   0.333
Piedmont   18   12   0.600   16   10   0.615   0   2   0.000
Case Western Reserve   19   10   0.655   14   9   0.609   0   3   0.000

Shouldn't the University of Dallas be included here?

[Ralph Turner]

Please remember that results versus Top 25 or any other poll is not a criterion.