BB: Regionals (West) 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011

[El Hombre]

anyone know when the west region starts?

The McMurry release says Thurs and the NCAA handbook says all regionals will start on the 18th (Wed.)

TigerFan -
Good catch.  I checked with McMurry - they confirmed the start date is May 18th.

[dp643]

Trinity and Redlands BOTH won their conferences. They are rewarded for that.

Your argument works against you there when CTX is ranked behind LaVerne.

None of this makes any sort of sense. We just have to wait and see who makes it where.

[TexasBB]

Team            Region Record          Overall Record          Conf. Champ
CTX                    28-13                    30-15                         Yes
La Verne             24-12                    25-14                          No


The logic of ranking La Verne has to be a perception of a very weak ASC. That would also make sense for ranking a 33-6 UTT 5th.  Back in 2009 Millsaps lost the first two games of its confernce tournament. It received a Pool C invitation and received the #2 seed in regional - Central I beilieve.  Millsaps had a record that was similar to UTT. Perception of the conference strength.  Those early season losses by a few ASC teams have haunted the conference the entire year.

Texas BB

[BigPoppa]

Team            Region Record          Overall Record          Conf. Champ
CTX                    28-13                    30-15                         Yes
La Verne             24-12                    25-14                          No


The logic of ranking La Verne has to be a perception of a very weak ASC. That would also make sense for ranking a 33-6 UTT 5th.  Back in 2009 Millsaps lost the first two games of its confernce tournament. It received a Pool C invitation and received the #2 seed in regional - Central I beilieve.  Millsaps had a record that was similar to UTT. Perception of the conference strength.  Those early season losses by a few ASC teams have haunted the conference the entire year.

Texas BB

Whether or not the conference is truly weak, right or wrong, the perception persists.

[Ralph Turner]

Team            Region Record          Overall Record          Conf. Champ
CTX                    28-13                    30-15                         Yes
La Verne             24-12                    25-14                          No


The logic of ranking La Verne has to be a perception of a very weak ASC. That would also make sense for ranking a 33-6 UTT 5th.  Back in 2009 Millsaps lost the first two games of its conference tournament. It received a Pool C invitation and received the #2 seed in regional - Central I believe.  Millsaps had a record that was similar to UTT. Perception of the conference strength.  Those early season losses by a few ASC teams have haunted the conference the entire year.

Texas BB

You have to look at the other primary criteria.


Primary Criteria
The primary criteria emphasize regional competition (all contests leading up to NCAA championships); all criteria listed
will be evaluated (not listed in priority order).  CTX listed before LaVerne
• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.  28-13  vs 24-12  (Basically 1/2 game advantage CTX)  
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).  
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP).
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).

Team                               Reg.           Reg.        OWP (rank)    OOWP    NCAA
                                     record        win %
131 La Verne                    24-12    .667    0.530 (130)    0.523    0.528
288 Concordia (Texas)    28-13    .683     0.463 (314)    0.531    0.486


• See Appendix B for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.
• In-region head-to-head competition.

No games.  They did not play each other in Arizona in Feb.

• In-region results versus common regional opponents.  (ULV one more win)

ULV  (3-2)   PacLu 2-0; Linfield 0-1; Whitman 1-0;  GFU  0-1.
CTX  (2-2)  PacLu 1-0;  Linfield 0-1; Whitman 1-0;  GFU  0-1.

• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.

ULV  Linfield (0-1); Chapman (1-2); Redlands (1-3).  LaVerne has "more results", but not necessarily better.
CTX Linfield  (0-1); HSU (1-2).  (CTX did not play a game against Trinity this year, which might have helped.)

• Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at any time of the rankings/selection process.
• Conference postseason contests are included.

CTX gets hurt by Southwestern (13-20 in-region) and ETBU (9-22 in-region) not being as strong. I believe UOzarks (7-23 in-region) was the mandated crossover game.

LaVerne has a "non-in-region" win over Kean.

SOS found here.  I have found every bit of these data on the d3baseball.com webpages!

http://www.d3baseball.com/seasons/2011/schedule?tmpl=sos-template

[TexasBB]

Thanks Ralph. Therefore after looking at all of this the fact that a team wins its conference tournament does not give it any "bonus" points as BigPoppa seemed to imply in his earlier post. The bonus if any, it would appear, comes from beating the teams in the tournament which likely includes a ranked team or two.

Texas BB

[CrashDavisD3]

The NCAA and its members who create the complex rules try to create fairness with their SOS, OWP, OOWP, and in region % BUT to me it just brings confusion and does not really make it any better.

Simplicity is the best....

The easy ones are the Pool A's....The win it on the field. Either by winning their conference or conference tourney AQ

PoolB/PoolC should be just a at large field. 17 spots.. Throw out SOS, OWP, OOWP IMO....Best in region winning percentage followed by best over D3 winning percentage. This is winning on the field and not by committee. Many teams and conferences do not have much control on WHO they play and it screws up their SOS, OWP, OOWP IMO.

Choose teams by region !

[Ralph Turner]

The NCAA and its members who create the complex rules try to create fairness with their SOS, OWP, OOWP, and in region % BUT to me it just brings confusion and does not really make it any better.

Simplicity is the best....

The easy ones are the Pool A's....The win it on the field. Either by winning their conference or conference tourney AQ

PoolB/PoolC should be just a at large field. 17 spots.. Throw out SOS, OWP, OOWP IMO....Best in region winning percentage followed by best over D3 winning percentage. This is winning on the field and not by committee. Many teams and conferences do not have much control on WHO they play and it screws up their SOS, OWP, OOWP IMO.

Choose teams by region !

I keep reminding everyone that the only problem that we have is the "problem" is the luxury of all of the Pool C bids.

Before the previous March Madness Contract, we only had 3 Pool C bids for baseball.  We would not be having most of these conversations, because losing the Conference tourney AQ would shut down the conversation.  In the West Region, there is very little difference between the #1 and #6 seed in the bracket.

We have 2 problems in the West.

1)  We don't have a bunch of nearby teams that we can play in other conferences, as we see in the New England and Mid-Atlantic Regions.  The statistical models cannot be made to reflect our situation for a simple comparison with the more populous regions.  All of our OWP's are around .520 or less.

2)  We have too much parity in the region.  Because we are not seeing schedules with 5-6 games in a week that develop deep bullpens, we see a lot of games in the season with #1 and #2 starters.  In a 40-game season, several teams in the West Region will have 3 pitchers with double-digit starts in the season.   The 2008 McMurry team was West Region quad-champs.  They won the ASC Pool A bid.  As the #6 seed in the West, they took eventual West winner Chapman to 12 innings.  Mississippi College was the Pool C bid from the ASC in 2010 and lost to Linfield in the Regional Finals.

[CrashDavisD3]

Ralph as always you are correct on all your points. That is why OWP, OOWP, SOS makes no sense in the West. It has benefited Chapman as a Independent in IMO only. It works against all other Pool C teams in the West. NCAA does have the money....March Madness is one of the many revenue streams the NCAA has. NCAA sports is a BIG business and make no mistake about it.

The West Regional will again showcase great teams with only 1 moving onto Appleton.

[tigerfan_2001]

I think the west is set.....can't wait for first pitch.

[TexasBB]

Is the west set? There have been some good arguements for Linfield or UTT going to a different regional. I would favor that so the west region conferences have more than one shot at Appleton.

On to another topic.

It has always befuddled me as to why the south and west dominates every phase of baseball except DIV III. That includes JUCO, DIV I and DIV II and NAIA. Rarely does a northern team win a national championship in those other divisions primarily due to the weather and the fact that baseball is played nearly year around in the south and west. The top baseball states have been California, Texas, Florida, Georgia and Arizona in so far as producing top level talent. Those states have traditionally dominated all the other classes of baseball. But not DIV III. If you look at the bids coming from the south vs. north in DIV I it is a polar opposite of what happens in DIV III. Even though there are more schools playing baseball in DIV III in the north, I can't believe that the talent level is better. The pool of talent to draw from  in Texas, for example is much greater than it is in PA or Ohio or even those states combined. There is just more baseball playeres who are playing year around in Texas. The number of DIV I teams in Ohio and PA combined is just as great if not greater than in Texas and there are much more DIV II and III programs. Thus the talent level up north should be watered down in comparison.

That is why the West region needs to have more of its teams picked up by other regional post season tournaments so it has the opportunity to send more than one team to Appleton.

[cat_fan_08]

Don't see Linfield being set anywhere but the west regional because they are the #1 ranked team in the West. UTT also will probably stay in state for the lower cost of travel. Yes, they are 5 hours away by driving but that isn't out of the question.

When Linfield was sent to the Central regional in '08 it was because they barely squeaked in by winning their conference on the last day and there were many other teams ranked ahead of them in region.

I do agree that the west should have more opportunities to showcase their talent in the finals.

[forheavendial4999]

The pool of talent to draw from  in Texas, for example is much greater than it is in PA or Ohio or even those states combined. There is just more baseball playeres who are playing year around in Texas. The number of DIV I teams in Ohio and PA combined is just as great if not greater than in Texas and there are much more DIV II and III programs. Thus the talent level up north should be watered down in comparison.

That is why the West region needs to have more of its teams picked up by other regional post season tournaments so it has the opportunity to send more than one team to Appleton.

You're kidding, right? A Texas team has never won a game in Appleton.

What regional would you advocate taking a bid from?

[Ralph Turner]

Is the west set? There have been some good arguements for Linfield or UTT going to a different regional. I would favor that so the west region conferences have more than one shot at Appleton.

On to another topic.

It has always befuddled me as to why the south and west dominates every phase of baseball except DIV III. That includes JUCO, DIV I and DIV II and NAIA. Rarely does a northern team win a national championship in those other divisions primarily due to the weather and the fact that baseball is played nearly year around in the south and west. The top baseball states have been California, Texas, Florida, Georgia and Arizona in so far as producing top level talent. Those states have traditionally dominated all the other classes of baseball. But not DIV III. If you look at the bids coming from the south vs. north in DIV I it is a polar opposite of what happens in DIV III. Even though there are more schools playing baseball in DIV III in the north, I can't believe that the talent level is better. The pool of talent to draw from  in Texas, for example is much greater than it is in PA or Ohio or even those states combined. There is just more baseball playeres who are playing year around in Texas. The number of DIV I teams in Ohio and PA combined is just as great if not greater than in Texas and there are much more DIV II and III programs. Thus the talent level up north should be watered down in comparison.

That is why the West region needs to have more of its teams picked up by other regional post season tournaments so it has the opportunity to send more than one team to Appleton.

Bids are not handed out because of quality.  The D-III tourney is about equity of access.  You win your conference, you get the bid.

I think that the Top 25 recognizes the quality of the teams.  The same argument about quality occurs on the Midwest Region Men's basketball message boards in the talent rich CCIW/WIAC and other Midwest Conferences.

I don't think that enough pitching falls to D-III in the state.

There are too many pitchers who are in the JUCO system in Texas playing 60 games a year that we aren't getting them in D-III.  After 2 years, they are either washed up or going to some scholarship program.  IMHO, there are no strong JUCO systems in the northern states, as we have down here.

Another thing is the hotbeds of public school conferences in the north where an inexpensive education can be obtained.  Specifically, great (state school) baseball conferences in D-III include the WIAC, the NJAC, the Little East and the SUNYAC.  Other strong state school programs are found at Salisbury MD and Christopher Newport VA.  

[Ralph Turner]

heaven is right.  Only one Texas team has won a regional to get to Wisconsin.

CTX went in 2002 and lost a 1-run game in the opener to the eventual champion, ECSU, and then went 2-and-BBQ.