Conference changes

[Caz Bombers]

Another announcement is coming. The CAC will be down to three schools by 2021-22. Announcement could come as early as Thursday morning (should have been out by now).

Here is that to which Dave was alluding - St. Mary's (Md.) to NEAC:

https://smcmathletics.com/general/2019-20/releases/20191212euo68z

gotta be the last straw for Morrisville and Wells, right? 8 hours each way to SMC from Central New York.

[DCAbloob]

And the CAC is already on the Pool A clock now because they have just 6 this season. They'll be in Pool B in 21-22 if they try to survive so they don't have the luxury of having plenty of time to bolster their ranks.

Assuming St Mary's is the one who will make the announcement (since the three listed in the post prior didn't include them) I think the best fits for the remaining schools geographically would be CNU and Mary Washington to the ODAC and Salisbury to the CC.

One problem with that is CNU, Mary Washington, and Salisbury are state schools, and all the schools in the ODAC are small private colleges. Same issue with the USA South, the Centennial, and the Atlantic East. The only option for these schools might be joining the Allegheny Mountain or North Eastern conferences. Either way, Mary Washington and CNU would be WAY outside the footprints of the conferences.

Mary Washington wouldn't be significantly further away than St. Mary's for the NEAC at this point. Christopher Newport would have a much tougher go of it. Any port in a storm though.

[Inkblot]

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: Belhaven (confirmed)
*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Dean (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)
*3rd year provisional members:  None
2nd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) (confirmed)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (MD) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to

[Gregory Sager]

Another announcement is coming. The CAC will be down to three schools by 2021-22. Announcement could come as early as Thursday morning (should have been out by now).

Here is that to which Dave was alluding - St. Mary's (Md.) to NEAC:

https://smcmathletics.com/general/2019-20/releases/20191212euo68z

gotta be the last straw for Morrisville and Wells, right? 8 hours each way to SMC from Central New York.

What's the chances that SUNY-Morrisville fully joins its institutional peers in the SUNYAC? The Mustangs are already associate members of the SUNYAC for men's hockey and for field hockey.

[Caz Bombers]

they removed themselves from the SUNYAC for general non-competitiveness in...I don't recall what year, 2008? They did the SUNYAC a favor and stayed to get their butts kicked in field hockey to keep the Pool A bid in exchange for being allowed to stay in men's ice hockey as well.

The department seems to have stabilized in the NEAC and while the SUNYAC would be a significant step back up in competition, I think they could handle it...would the league take them back and wind up with a funky 11-member alignment in a bunch of sports? Hard to say. The SUNYAC can be surprisingly snobby; SUNY Canton approached them about joining a few years ago, at least as a hockey affiliate, and were basically told to get bent, from what I heard.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The basketball season now finds itself square in the middle of not only the holidays, but also finals. Teams are taking breaks to focus on academics and either not playing until the new year or finding openings to fit in games here and there.

And while the tempo of games subsides a bit, there is still plenty of news swirling around Division III. Tune in as Dave and guests tackle all of the news this week in what should be a jam-packed Hoopsville on Thursday night.

Topics will include the latest news of two Capital Athletic Conference members announcing they are leaving for other conference homes. What is next for the CAC which will be down to just three members by 2021-22 season. The rumors about St. Thomas's future continue to swirl, we at least try and put some of those rumors to rest. And a MIAC president finally speaks out about the decision to push UST out the door. Maybe he should have not said anything.

Plus, there is a new number one team in women's basketball, a team that nearly completed an undefeated season has reemerged, another former champion is showing they may be back in the hunt, and a program we haven't talked about in a long time has made it known they are ready for the season.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Thursday's show LIVE with the following options:
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If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com or use any of the social media options to the right.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Doreen Carden, Albion women's coach
- Jill Pace, No. 1 Tufts women's coach
- Stephen Brennan, No. 14 Babson men's coach
- Keith Bunkenburg, No. 24 Benedictine coach

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[thebear]

SUNY has 20 campuses competing at the D-3 level.  10 are in the SUNYAC, by next year 4 will be in the NAC.  4 are in the Skyline due to geography.  Alfred State is in the AMCC again due to geography, and SUNY Delhi, which will be third year in 2020-21 is in the notional [spread all over the country] American Collegiate Athletic Assn. 

Not sure exactly what the auto bid rules are but the 16 SUNY schools north of Westchester could be split into two 8 team conferences, each with auto bids, similar to MAC Centennial and MAC Freedom.

That could be an option and split the schools by geography [East West] or size [Large Small].

East could be:

Canton,
Cobleskill
Delhi
New Paltz
Oneonta
Plattsburgh
Potsdam
SUNY Poly

West Could be:

Alfred State
Brockport
Buffalo State
Cortland
Fredonia
Geneseo
Morrisville
Oswego

Food for thought, would guarantee two auto bids eventually.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

That would not guarantee two autobids. Not if it is one conference - the SUNYAC. It would have to be two completely separate conferences not associated with one another and not run by any of the same people.

The USA South and ASC are the closest to this model currently and they don't have extra bids and won't get them, either.

The MAC setup with the Commonwealth and Freedom is a LONG ago grandfathered clause. NO conference will get that allowance ever again.

[thebear]

Thanks and that is a great explanation of why the already 10 team SUNYAC won't be looking for other SUNY schools to join.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Thanks and that is a great explanation of why the already 10 team SUNYAC won't be looking for other SUNY schools to join.

The biggest reason I think the SUNYAC has to be careful about inviting more members ... the schedule becomes a real pain in the rear and you kill chances at improving the SOS of individual teams.

In your example (with the understanding of one AQ), you figure each team plays its division in two games per opponent and one for the other division. That means 22 of a max 25 games per season. No conference schedule should kill off any chances of playing that few non-conference games. The MIAC went back to currently only giving five non-conference dates and that is ridiculous. The ASC also has a ridiculous non-conference limit that badly hurts those teams from getting at-large chances because they can't do much with their non-conference schedules (the ASC also gets hurt when their bottom teams don't try and do anything more with their non-conference opponents and schedule conference foes for an extra, non-conf game).

The SUNYAC currently has 18 games in conference. I think that is about the max a conference wants to give their teams the best chance at improving their non-conference schedule. It would be better at 16, but 18 is understandable with the way some conferences are designed. That is the biggest reason I think the SUNYAC won't be looking to expand any further.

The fact Canton, Cobleskill, and SUNYIT are in the NAC now and starting next season is another good reason I don't see the SUNYAC being any bigger as well.

I am not sure what Morrisville State does. Again, I thought the idea of bringing them into the NAC was pretty solid, but the other SUNYs didn't like the idea from what I was told (from several sources). So that leaves Morrisville floating at the northern end of the NEAC, which is going to shrink a bit more in the future making scheduling tougher on Morrisville.

[ScottieSuit]

Where do the remaining CAC members end up? Do they push forward as independents?

Does not appear that there is a logical landing point as of now.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Where do the remaining CAC members end up? Do they push forward as independents?

Does not appear that there is a logical landing point as of now.

They can keep the conference, just without AQs.  As Dave has been saying, there's a lot of advantage to having a recognized conference in the NCAA.  If they're ok losing the AQ, they can add teams as they're able and work their way back up.  I'm not sure there's a good fit for CNU at this point.  Salisbury might be in the same boat.  Mary Washington may have options to go elsewhere, but who knows?

[Gregory Sager]

I keep wondering how all of those tiny West Virginia state schools in the 1,000-4,000 student range can maintain their D2 budgets, and what a nice match they'd make for the CAC stragglers if at least four of them moved to D3.

[Ralph Turner]

Where do the remaining CAC members end up? Do they push forward as independents?

Does not appear that there is a logical landing point as of now.

They can keep the conference, just without AQs.  As Dave has been saying, there's a lot of advantage to having a recognized conference in the NCAA.  If they're ok losing the AQ, they can add teams as they're able and work their way back up.  I'm not sure there's a good fit for CNU at this point.  Salisbury might be in the same boat.  Mary Washington may have options to go elsewhere, but who knows?

Please correct me, but I think that a conference must have 4 full members to be recognized.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Ralph - I need to double-check what, if any, minimum exists for a conference to be recognized. The three-member status does worry me in that regard and has thrown much of what I say about staying together as a conference into some question.

At the very least, it still makes sense to stay together as a conference because otherwise as independents all student, coach, and other awards given in a conference are gone. A conference championship is gone as well. Not much to play or recruit for if you can't even talk about performance awards. It also allows for a few games to be scheduled, especially in February in basketball (near the end of other sports' seasons), when no other decent teams will be available due to their own conference schedules.

I need to take the temperature of schools now, but still we are talking 21-22 ... the CAC still has the chance to find a few schools which I know they have been working on for quite some time. I talked about a few on Hoopsville Thursday (first block of the show).

Per Mary Washington, they are in the same boat essentially as Salisbury and CNU. They are a public-honors school like SMC, but they are more successful and spending more I believe than SMC. That makes them less enticing for a conference like NEAC - though, the NEAC isn't going to want to travel 90 minutes (on a good day) south of Washington DC (Gallaudet) to play games in conference. But UMW doesn't have any options around them of conferences that will take them since they are not a private institution.

As for West Virginia schools ... I have no idea how that all works from their perspective, but if they start to change their minds, the CAC would be the perfect place for them.