Conference changes

[Gregory Sager]

But my theory (and it's only that) is that SUNY schools have more financial capacity than, say, Elmira, Well or Houghton.

Houghton might not be a good example. The college got a $12 million donation for a new athletic facility that gave it the capability to add sports and thus transition from NAIA to D3 a decade ago, and that money came entirely from Terry and Kim Pegula, the billionaire couple that owns the Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Sabres. Kim is a Houghton alumna. Given that, plus the sports aspect of the Pegula family holdings (they also own a couple of professional lacrosse franchises in Rochester and Buffalo), it's reasonable to speculate that if Houghton's leadership sees the need for athletics upgrades in facilities and/or budget they have a benefactor that can make it happen for them.

[gordonmann]

How about that! Thanks for the knowledge.

When I lived in Upstate New York, it was the Golisano family that everyone pointed toward as the potential financial deliverer, including as a potential buyer for the Buffalo Sabres. I just looked and Tom Golisano went to Alfred State.

The Pegulas and Golisanos should both finance massive facilities and turn Houghton/Alfred State into the next Hope/Calvin rivalry!

[Caz Bombers]

Houghton also dropped men's and women's lacrosse last summer because it wasn't enrolling enough kids to sustain itself, plus most Houghton teams are awful. Nothing in common with Hope besides the first 2 letters of their names and being church colleges.

As for the other schools Gordon referenced, agreed. Elmira is broke and I have no idea how Wells is still open.

[Gregory Sager]

Houghton also dropped men's and women's lacrosse last summer because it wasn't enrolling enough kids to sustain itself, plus most Houghton teams are awful. Nothing in common with Hope besides the first 2 letters of their names and being church colleges.

I have the impression that athletics has never really been any kind of a priority whatsoever at Houghton. The Highlanders have a tradition of having some good runners in their running sports, and that's about it.

I'm shocked that Houghton dropped men's and women's lacrosse, though. I mean, if you're a college in upstate New York and yet you can't find enough lacrosse players to fill out your teams, then that's just plain sad. That's a "file under F for lack of effort" outcome. Lacrosse was king when I was growing up in central New York, and, granted that that was a long time ago, I nevertheless can't imagine that the sport's popularity has waned on the prep level there.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I wonder how much of Houghton's recruiting is local, though. If they're relying heavily on denominational connections, lacrosse might not be as popular where the students are actually coming from.

[WUPHF]

If you're part of a state system, you have access to more ability to "buy in bulk," use system assets, access debt with a different credit rating, etc. That doesn't mean a SUNY or WIAC school has more financial capacity than Harvard or a liberal arts school with a big endowment. And certainly there are some private schools that are investing in athletics. Look at the facilities at Hope and Calvin.

I am intrigued by this point to the point that I'll have to go look at the SUNY facilities online because I am not convinced that a look at the Midwest supports these claims.  Particularly the suggestion that they can borrow more easily, making it easier to build.

[Gregory Sager]

I wonder how much of Houghton's recruiting is local, though. If they're relying heavily on denominational connections, lacrosse might not be as popular where the students are actually coming from.

In terms of Houghton's undergrad student body, 63% are New York State residents. The rosters of the various Highlanders teams are dominated by western and central New Yorkers, with the conspicuous exception of the men's and women's basketball teams, and of the out-of-staters who play sports for Houghton a fair number are from Pennsylvania towns close to the NY-PA border, which isn't far south of Houghton.

[CNU85]

Before i retired I did athletic budgets and the NCAA reporting for a state operated campus.  Their funding streams are complex.  The facilities are largely funded by the state including buildings, utilities, janitorial staff etc. 

Do you mind providing an example of a state school that is largely funded by the state, given the continuous decline in state funding over the last few decades?

I'd be interested to see this as well. I know at CNU in the past 25 years state funding has gone from about 75% of the operating budget down to just over 20%. (UVA receives 5% from the Commonwealth - might as well be private with their $5B endowment). I know someone at USC-Aiken and they also get just over 20% from the State. State schools for the most part are not largely funded by the state to the extent they once were.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

This doesn't give you everything you want, but here's 2019 state funding data by state, both including and excluding tuition payments.

https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/cross-center-initiatives/state-and-local-finance-initiative/state-and-local-backgrounders/higher-education-expenditures#:~:text=The%20United%20States%2C%20on%20average,public%20postsecondary%20institutions%20in%202019.&text=Alaska%20spent%20the%20most%2C%20with,%2C%20and%20Pennsylvania%20(%2438%2C664).

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Salve Regina to the NEWMAC.

[Ralph Turner]

Salve Regina to the NEWMAC.

Ryan, you know the Northeast well.
So, Salve Regina was more acceptable than Hartford?
Can you answer, why?
Thx

[BaboNation]

Well as a NEWMAC fan I don't like this at all.  This isn't about Hartford or Salve Regina with me, but about the effect this will have on the conference, and most particularly home & away games for men's basketball.  Now there will be 9 on the men's side and 12 for women.  Or is there another shoe or 2 to drop?

So I believe this is the 3rd CCC team to migrate to the NEWMAC in recent years after Coast Guard and Emerson.  If I truly wanted to "poach" a CCC member I would have wanted Suffolk (to me, a much better overall fit) but maybe they're happy where they are.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Salve Regina to the NEWMAC.

Ryan, you know the Northeast well.
So, Salve Regina was more acceptable than Hartford?
Can you answer, why?
Thx

Hartford doesn't have football. That's what I have to assume.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Well as a NEWMAC fan I don't like this at all.  This isn't about Hartford or Salve Regina with me, but about the effect this will have on the conference, and most particularly home & away games for men's basketball.  Now there will be 9 on the men's side and 12 for women.  Or is there another shoe or 2 to drop?

So I believe this is the 3rd CCC team to migrate to the NEWMAC in recent years after Coast Guard and Emerson.  If I truly wanted to "poach" a CCC member I would have wanted Suffolk (to me, a much better overall fit) but maybe they're happy where they are.

Didn't Emerson and CGA move in the '90s? They definitely were not in the CCC when I was in college.

[gordonmann]

Emerson was a charter member of the CCC from 1984 to 1989. Then they were a charter member of the GNAC and moved to the NEWMAC in 2013-14.

Coast Guard has been a NEWMAC member since 1998 when the New England Women's 8 Conference started conference play and added men's sports. But before that, they were also in the CCC (1984-1987).