BB: Regionals (New York) Auburn NY '08, SUNY-Old Westbury '09, Cortland State '10, '11

[AlleyCat]

I just wanted to congratulate the NY region on a fine tournament and again the New Yorkers proved their strength by it comiing down to Cortland and RPI. They sent 4 out of region teams in to try to prove the weakness of the region and it still came down to 2 New York teams. Hopefully next year the committee will see the strength and let a team in like Rochester or maybe even Brockport.

Good luck Cortland and win the whole thing!!!

[Pat Coleman]

It means that this is a Public Forum and I don't need your permission to post or re-post my thoughts as you clearly tried to grant me permission when you said:
"scuba16 -- if you'd like to try again to get your post through without being a jerk about it, I welcome the attempt."

Actually, you do. That's the whole point of the Terms of Service. You really should read them, I guess.

[BaseB13]

Quick question.  Does Cortland have a JV team?  I see they carry 43 guys or so.  I also looked up Linfield when I discovered Scott Brosius was their head coach.  Im a big yankee fan, especially growing up during the glory days with him at third.  Linfield carries around 46 guys or so.  So I decided to list the amount of players on each team.  I guess I had a couple questions.  Some rosters have players with no numbers listed on them.  Are these players eligible to play in a game?  Are they JV players?  Seems like a bit of overkill to me.  I'm assuming if they're on the team in some capacity that the players are fairly talented.  Don't quite understand why some would choose to sit the bench for 4 years when they could play somewhere else.  Is there a limit to the amount of players allowed on a roster at the Division I level?  Obviously I'm guessing there isn't at the D3 level because some of these rosters are massive.  Anyways I thought it was interesting to see how big the best teams were in the country.  I'd guess their rosters are above average.

Cortland 43 - 5 Coaches
Trinity 29 - 4 Coaches
Kean 32 -  7 Coaches
Linfield 46 - 7 Coaches
Chapman 26 - 3 Coaches
Adrian 37 - 5 Coaches
JHU 42 - 6 Coaches
UWW 33 - 6 Coaches

[pudge27]

No, Cortland doesn't carry a JV team as far as I know.  Never have, as long as I can remember.  They do carry a lot of guy on their team, but there's 2 points I'd make on that.  #1, check out their stat page.  16 guys have over 50 ab's (I took a little license here because one actually has 49. close enough), so everyone is getting their time.  #2, CSt. has always tried to carry a lot of pitchers (12 guys with over 12 innings and no one over 62).  So it's not really a case of someone riding the pine instead of playing. 

With what the weather does to their schedule, neither of those are by mistake.  They'll roll out 6 different guys on the back end of a dh sometimes.  I'd also contend that the difference between Cortland and everyone else right now is that pitching depth.  Good example is last weekend.  They rolled out their #4 guy and he shut down the #15 or 16 team in the country. 

I'm not sure of the guys with no numbers.  I'm pretty sure that the NCAA still regulates roster size for the Regionals and WS.  Meal $$ usually dictates how many they travel with during the season. 

[Bob Maxwell]

I don't think there is a limit to the number of players "listed" on a team roster at any division.  there are however, roster limits imposed for the number of players "active" for games during the season of many D-I conferences.  That is different in different conferences..  I don't know of any limits in D-III until the NCAA tournament.

At D-III the NCAA does limit the number of players that can be on the playing roster, in uniform and in the dugout during tournament games.  I think that nubmer is 25... but you can check it in the NCAA rules if you want.

also some schools do set roster limits (maximums and minimums) for all of their teams to ensure gender equity compliance.

A couple of years ago, I was shocked at a SUNYAC game when I found out that there was NOT a roster size limit for the conference games.  It seemed to be a real advantage to the home team (which was Cortland, but each team did have the opportunity to earn that designation during there season) as they could keep putting players into the game, relief pitchers, pinch runners, defensive subs, etc...  the teams that traveled didn't have as many players to choose from... for various reasons.  The most obvious one being that they didn't list the same number of players on their roster.... or the school would only let them travel with a set number of players.

I would think that at the D-III level during the regualr season the number should be determined by the school and its philosophy.  But come playoff time... starting with the conference touranments there should be a set number that each team can use.  That would put everyone on the level playing field for the championships.

[BaseB13]

Ok so I was writing my post and then Bob responded so some of this may be moot as Bob answered some of my questions.  I don't feel like writing a new one though.

Pudge I sense a little defensiveness  .  I was by no means saying it's a problem.  I was more wondering how it all works, especially the guys with no jersey numbers.  I definitely agree if you can have more quality players on your squad, more power to ya.  16 guys 50+ abs, and 12 guys 12+ innings = 28 guys.  Suppose you have another 6 guys who get a little time because they're young = 34 guys.  What purpose do the other 9 serve? I'd say you can never have enough pitchers to hit fungos etc but many of the teams are not short on coaches to do that either.  Not to mention if you're a sophomore and you aren't even provided a uniform you'd have to wonder what your prospects of playing down the road are.  I guess I found it interesting that the majority of teams in Appleton carry pretty large squads.. Makes sense that the best teams are probably the deepest. I do agree that the team/school should decide how many to carry.  It's also good that they then limit it come regionals/appleton to help even the playing field a bit.

Finally, if say Jo Shmo does not play at all his freshmen and sophomore year, but he's on the roster, has he used two years of eligiblity?  Lets say Joe then turns in to a stud his junior year, could he play longer?  I think D3 did away with the red shirting business so I'd think not but maybe I am wrong..

[Bob Maxwell]

I believe that with the rule changes regarding "red-shirts" in D-III 4 years ago... that if someone appears on an official roster and/or practices with the team once the games start being played in the traditional segment of the season... YES, he has infact used up a year of eleigibility.

so based on what BaseB13 says in his question... yes they used up two years of eligibility.

Which begs the question, why do coaches do that... and even more puzzling is why do players let it happen?

[John McGraw]

There's a 25-man roster limit for the NCAA playoffs. Which is why, when you have say ECSU pummeling Montclair, 14-0, the Warriors only put in so many subs - because they only have a handful of bench players available.

When I broadcast Cortland games on a regular basis, the NCAA roster-limit discussion always came up late in the season or during the SUNYAC tournament. Who would Cortland keep on the roster once the regionals started.

[pudge27]

No defensiveness on my part.  I just wanted to make sure that people knew those stats because it would be a problem if a team was carrying big numbers and using 10 position guys and 5 pitchers.  

Anyone know much about Trinity (Aside from the obvious record)?  I know that they were an awfully good team last year when they lost in the NY Regionals.  I think that Cortland's got a really good shot this year, but with the teams that are in Appleton, there are no easy outs.  Looks like a free for all.  Old school battle royale.

[scuba16]

I think you have to participate in less that 1/3 of your teams games to be considered eligible for a Redshirt yr.
Not sure on the exact NCAA wording of it but redshirts are still granted at the D-3 level.

[Pat Coleman]

Only if you are injured are you eligible for that kind of redshirt, called a medical hardship year.

[FranElia]

Actually, the NCAA roster size is 24 players, according to the NCAA Championship Handbook. There was talk about the roster expanding to 25 players this year when the official NCAA 'travel party" went from 28 to 29 (I think), but the NCAA kept the playing roster at 24.

Fran

[Bob Maxwell]

Scuba,

I don't think that they are allowed in D-III any more.  If you are on a roster and/or practice you use a year of eligibility.

The criteria for being a red-shirt in D'I & II are that you DID NOT PARTICIPATE in any contest... either in the traditional or non-traditional segment of the season.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=420


When you suggest playing in less then 1/3rd of the teams games you are referring to a medical hardship Waiver.  These terms are very often confused with each other and that casues a lot of confusion for those of us who don't work in the world of the NCAA rules.  The basic qualifiications for this designation are:
1) that the injury occurs in the first half of the traditional portion of the season;
2) the student athlete has participate din less then 30% of the scheduled contests (3 contests if the season is less then 10 games).  The rule reference is 14.2.4
http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_i_manual/2007-08/2007-08_d1_manual.pdf

[Bob Maxwell]

OOPS... forgot the third criteria...

3) the player does NOT participate in any further organized practice activities with the team for the remainder of the season.  If they do return and practice (even if they don't play in a game) then they lose the option of obtaining a hardship waiver.

[Bob Maxwell]

Correct links...

Redshirt definition:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=420

Hardship Waiver rule:
http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_i_manual/2007-08/2007-08_d1_manual.pdf