MBB: Great Northeast Athletic Conference

[madzillagd]

I saw a lot more of Williams last year than this year, so the big wildcard for me is Robinson.  People are talking about him as the best freshman in the country - obviously that's NESCAC talk, so I don't know how much to believe, but he's a tough matchup for a lot of people.

I can't speak to the other freshmen around the country so I have no idea how he compares.  His numbers for a freshman are pretty impressive. 

16.4 ppg 6.6 rbg 1.9 apg  54.6 %  46.5 3pt%  88.5%.  He's 6'7 and has range up to 28 ft which makes him tough guard because he's shown the ability to beat guys off the dribble as well. 

[madzillagd]

Williams has some shooters as well.  I do think they were ranked too highly for most of the year.  This is not as good a Williams team as they've had in past years.  I didn't have them in the Final Four - and as of today, I'd pick Albertus to win on a neutral floor, the way both teams are playing.

I believe most Williams fans will tell you this is the most talented group of players they've had in a long time, which doesn't necessarily make them the best team yet.  This group has yet to play their 'best game' so there is still time for growth and improvement.  They are one of the most talented offensive teams in the country, their Achilles heal has been their defense. They've had many games this year where they just haven't shown the focus in the first half, but then turn it up on defense in the 2nd half which leads to better offense.  The Amherst games have been the exception for the most part.  As for having 'some shooters' I think what makes this Williams team difficult to guard is almost everybody on the squad is a shooter except for a couple of the bench players.  They have 7 guys in the rotation that will shoot the 3 at any time which helps spread the floor for their offense. 

[madzillagd]

Now that I've addressed those comments here some original thoughts.  I watched AMC 4-5 times this year and have seen almost all of the Williams games.  Definitely going to be a fun match up of offense (don't we always jinx it though when we expect high scoring games). 

AMC Wins if:  They shoot the ball well from 3 and Williams does not.  On average, Williams is not as disciplined a team on defense as what AMC saw with WPI.  They've stepped it up in the 2nd half of games but haven't really put up great defensive games from start to finish.  If AMC scores well from start to finish then I could see Williams having a hard time keeping up with them.

Williams Wins if:  They shoot the ball well from 3 and/or play their best defensive game of the year.  Williams does not have the defense of WPI, but they have a whole lot more firepower than what AMC saw from WPI.  If that game is any indication of how this game may play out in terms of AMC's performance than I'd give the edge to Williams.  Foul trouble could be another factor here, Wiliams has a deeper bench I believe and anyone in early fouls for AMC could prove costly. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Williams has some shooters as well.  I do think they were ranked too highly for most of the year.  This is not as good a Williams team as they've had in past years.  I didn't have them in the Final Four - and as of today, I'd pick Albertus to win on a neutral floor, the way both teams are playing.

I believe most Williams fans will tell you this is the most talented group of players they've had in a long time, which doesn't necessarily make them the best team yet.  This group has yet to play their 'best game' so there is still time for growth and improvement.  They are one of the most talented offensive teams in the country, their Achilles heal has been their defense. They've had many games this year where they just haven't shown the focus in the first half, but then turn it up on defense in the 2nd half which leads to better offense.  The Amherst games have been the exception for the most part.  As for having 'some shooters' I think what makes this Williams team difficult to guard is almost everybody on the squad is a shooter except for a couple of the bench players.  They have 7 guys in the rotation that will shoot the 3 at any time which helps spread the floor for their offense.

I think this is pretty accurate.  They don't seem to be playing to the level of their talent yet.

I think this is generally an overall down year for the top of d3 talent wise (which is why you see even the best teams playing close games).

For the record, I love Mayer.  I think he's the best big man in the country.  That doesn't mean he lacks weaknesses.  His lack of aggressiveness around the rim is the only way you can hope to contain him.  Clearly nobody has had the ability to do it, but it's still the best way to attack him on defense.  I don't think there's any question about that.

If he had that piece to his game, likely he'd not be playing d3 ball anyway.

It's not a knock.  We don't have complete 6'9" players in d3.  Everybody that big has weaknesses.  They asked for essentially a scouting report - that's what I provided.

If you were an opposing coach, what would you do with Mayer?

(I also think we may have different expectations of what "stopping him" means.  I'd say 13 and 11 is about the best you can hope for against Mayer - that's a stellar defensive performance - most teams would be happy to keep him at 15 and 12, I suspect.  I'm not judging the guy by an average d3 performance, but by what he's capable of.)

[nescac1]

First, I agree with all of madzillagd's analysis on Williams.  I feel very confident that Robinson deserves to, and will, win national rookie of the year.  His success as a first year in NESCAC is basically unprecedented, at least in recent memory, and some pretty darn good first years have arrived in NESCAC in recent years. 

Second, we've had this disagreement before, I believe, but I actually think that the top tier of Division 3 is very good this year, thanks to a lot of really strong senior classes.  For the most part, the teams that were projected based on pre-season talent to be contenders -- Stevens Point, Whitewater, IWU, Wheaton (it took awhile, perhaps, but they are on a major roll right now), Williams, Amherst, Wash U., Cabrini etc. -- have played to expectations.  Lots of great seniors among the top teams -- Tillema, Haas, Peters, Mayer, Langan, Toomey, Klimek, and so on.   The all-American teams are going to be dominated by seniors this year. 

It's next year that looks to be weak at the top.  This year, several truly loaded teams returned.  But I don't see any team in thet final D3hoops top 12 that won't be suffering major graduation losses.  In fact, among those dozen teams, I believe that Cabrini and Whitewater are the only ones that return their biggest star players, and both of them still lose some key players.  I have a feeling that Cabrini, Whitewater and Augustana will be the pre-season favorites next year, and none of them look to be nearly as good on paper as this year's elite teams.  For the first time in awhile, barring a few more superstar transfers to AMC, I don't see any obvious national title contenders for next season among the New England elite. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

For what it's worth, assuming everyone qualifies academically, I think Cabrini will be better next year than they were this year.  Rumor has it they're actually bringing in some size down low.

[middhoops]

I saw a lot more of Williams last year than this year, so the big wildcard for me is Robinson.  People are talking about him as the best freshman in the country - obviously that's NESCAC talk, so I don't know how much to believe, but he's a tough matchup for a lot of people.

I haven't seen Albertus this year either, so I don't know how the inside game is, but so long as there's somebody decently tall and physical, they should be able to keep Mayer from doing too much.  Mayer is a very skilled big man, but he's not overly physical or aggressive, so a good defender can take him out.

Williams has some shooters as well.  I do think they were ranked too highly for most of the year.  This is not as good a Williams team as they've had in past years.  I didn't have them in the Final Four - and as of today, I'd pick Albertus to win on a neutral floor, the way both teams are playing.

Ok, I'm a NESCAC guy but I watched hundreds of games this year and watched all the top teams multiple times.  Also a Vermont season ticket holder.  Duncan Robinson is a D3 anomaly.  He'd be a stud in an lower level conference like the America East.  Bad D1, but D1 nonetheless.

Williams is healthy now.  They can go deep.  Very deep.
They lose a lot of first halves, so never judge them at halftime.  Due to injuries, their freshmen, Greenman and Aronowitz have developed into key contributors.
As a Middlebury fan, I'm just giddy at the prospect of Mayer and Epley graduating.
Don't sell the Ephs short  (hoopsfan, I know you don't) because they can beat anybody on a given night.  Except Amherst, it would seem.

[D3HoopJunkie]

Excellent insight everyone. As everyone here knows I am an Albertus fan but I have seen Williams play in a few games this seasons. They are very impressive offensivley. There starting 5 has quality players at each postition. But I must point out so does Albertus. Athletically I am extremely confident that Albertus has the edge. Not to many teams in the country can match the athleticism of the Falcons.

The most interesting thing that I am taking out of the NESCAC Posters and Williams supporters is that they are slow starters in the 1st half. As an Albertus fan this is great news because the Falcons are a team that you do not want to fall behind because Eian Davis drives the car and Coach Oliver keeps the pedal to the metal all the way till the compeltion of the game. If Williams wants to fight back in the second half an trade baskets than I am perfectly ok with that because no one except D1 Central CT has been able to do that against us this year.

With all that being said I dont think Williams will allow a slow start to hurt them because they are very well coached and very disciplined.

I cant wait till Friday!! This week of work might as well be a wash. As Dave mentioned on Hoopsville this is without doubt the bigget game in Albertus Magnus history. This is what will push Albertus into the upper echelon of Northeast teams!!

[GnacBballFan]

For my fellow albertus fans, an old article in the New York post of superstar pg transfer Eian Davis

[GnacBballFan]

It would be helpful if I posted the link huh? Lol

nypost.com/2011/08/11/coming-of-age-davis-sparks-x-men-to-first-ever-ebc-rucker-crown/

[lildave678]

Crazy to think OUR Eian Davis is the same one who got absolutely no burn at South Plains, how in the heck lol? I understand he was a freshman but sheesh...

http://www.spctexans.com/d/2009-10/Mens_Basketball/Season_Box_Scores/Season_Box_as_of_3.4.10.html

Only played in 16 of 29 games, 11 minutes on average, 2.4 points, only 20 assists and just as many turnovers (20). They went 18-11, not like they were 29-0. The kid really did blow up at ASA then.

[D3HoopJunkie]

Calling all GNAC Posters!!!!

Just a general question, how deep of a run has a GNAC team ever gone on in the NCAA tournament? I have a feeling not too far. I don't think anyone has ever made the elite eight from the GNAC?? If that's the case, then this could easily be the best team in the history of the GNAC conference.

Does anyone know off the top of their head? Or does contacting the GNAC website directly sound easier. Perhaps Pat or Dave can help with this question as well??

[pjunito]

I could not find any information on GNAC website about NCAA tournament history. I think Dave and Pat would have a better idea. Now, I believe Dave posted that GNAC has 3 wins between 2000 and 2010 in the NCAAs, then of course Albertus won in 2012 and JWU in 2011, so 5 wins since 2000 in the NCAA tournament, which means that no one since 2000 has won more than 1 game in the NCAAs. But, the league began in 1996 and not sure if anyone made it past the second round during that time period.

[pjunito]

Now that I've addressed those comments here some original thoughts.  I watched AMC 4-5 times this year and have seen almost all of the Williams games.  Definitely going to be a fun match up of offense (don't we always jinx it though when we expect high scoring games). 

AMC Wins if:  They shoot the ball well from 3 and Williams does not.  On average, Williams is not as disciplined a team on defense as what AMC saw with WPI.  They've stepped it up in the 2nd half of games but haven't really put up great defensive games from start to finish.  If AMC scores well from start to finish then I could see Williams having a hard time keeping up with them.

Williams Wins if:  They shoot the ball well from 3 and/or play their best defensive game of the year.  Williams does not have the defense of WPI, but they have a whole lot more firepower than what AMC saw from WPI.  If that game is any indication of how this game may play out in terms of AMC's performance than I'd give the edge to Williams.  Foul trouble could be another factor here, Wiliams has a deeper bench I believe and anyone in early fouls for AMC could prove costly. 

Mad,

Thanks for your insight. I have not watched any Williams games this year. I have looked at box scores and stats and I know they score a lot. Albertus and Williams both average over 80 points a game. My main concern, along with many of the other Albertus supporters, was their ability to play a game in the 60s and win. All teams who want to win in the NCAA tournaments have to find a way to win in games that don't match your identity. That game was the WPI game, they had size and length and were able to slow Albertus down. Albertus had the best defensive half of the year. Now, I think we can all agree that Williams will be a better offensive team than WPI (mostly due to injuries).

As for Albertus - I have seen them play a lot. Davis is a fast point guard. A 2-3 zone does not limit his ability to get into the paint. Albertus loves to shoot the three (but that isn't the key to their success). If they hit the three, it usually means they win by 10+. But the key to their success is points in the paint. They do an excellent job of getting into the paint and either getting an easy scoring opportunity or drawing a foul (they go to the line an avg of 26 times a game). If they have the three ball falling then it is hard to stop them. All 5 starters can score, all 5 starters are not afraid to have the ball in their hands. Watson can really shoot the ball well. Jennings is a streaking shooter. Vic L has a great mid range game. I think they will score but can they defend. I have seen them play solid tough defense but not for 40 minutes.

As for Williams, they have been down countless times at the half and have made impressive comebacks. They lost to Amherst three times this year but no one else (other than SVC). It scares me to hear that they have not played a complete game yet this season. I think they will be confident and run their offense well. I think they have match-up problems defensively, but if they limit Albertus' possession by controlling the glass and keep Albertus off the line. They should win the game.

I hope we all get to see a very fun game.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I could not find any information on GNAC website about NCAA tournament history. I think Dave and Pat would have a better idea. Now, I believe Dave posted that GNAC has 3 wins between 2000 and 2010 in the NCAAs, then of course Albertus won in 2012 and JWU in 2011, so 5 wins since 2000 in the NCAA tournament, which means that no one since 2000 has won more than 1 game in the NCAAs. But, the league began in 1996 and not sure if anyone made it past the second round during that time period.

According to the conference guidebook that Gordon Mann has taken a ton of time putting together... I can only find a second round being the furthest the conference has gotten.

Here is the guidebook.